376 replies to this topic

[kuangmk11]

Can somebody point me to the info on total drop weight limits is. All I can find is group drop weight limits.

[TercieI]

Joseph Mallan, on 27 November 2013 - 10:01 AM, said:

Its cool. I have 30 years playing the TT game, and I was even a demo rep for FanPro, so I have a particular view of what forces should look like. As long as we are honorless Mercs we can get away with sitting in whatever, I just hope House units are more... structured.

BattleTech was always one of those "other games" for me. Had a buddy who was into it back in schooldays, but I was more into Car Wars (and later Advanced Squad Leader (and still am into that)). MW:O is really the first time I've given any thought to the universe. I have tried to gain some more knowledge, but I don't really know where to start. Even "synopses" on Sarna are long (and appallingly dry), so I'm a bit at a loss as to where to get a good overview. Have any suggestions?

I'd apologize for hijack but it's page 10 and we're so far off topic already.

kuangmk11, on 27 November 2013 - 10:22 AM, said:

Can somebody point me to the info on total drop weight limits is. All I can find is group drop weight limits.

I think that's all there was. Also, we all seem to be ignoring the giant neon "THESE NUMBERS ARE FOR DEMONSTRATION PURPOSES ONLY" sign they had on that post.

[Fut]

aniviron, on 27 November 2013 - 09:35 AM, said:

I'm just really curious what happens in this situation if, say, a new player spent his/her cadet bonus on two atlases, and that's all they have. Do they just not get to play because they don't have any mechs light enough?

That's a really great question actually. Obviously I don't have an actual answer for you, but I can take some guesses.

- Perhaps the Match-Maker will take into account what Mechs the user has in their Garage, and will only throw them into a group that has enough free tonnes for an Atlas?

- Perhaps the game will force that player to use a Trial Mech unless somebody else on that team drops weight until 100T is free for the Atlas.

It's all wild speculation at this point.

NRP, on 27 November 2013 - 09:37 AM, said:

@Fut
So . . . you agree it's going to limit player choice, correct?

I hope PGI treads very carefully here.

Yes, I agree.
Tonnage limits will, at times, limit some players' choices.
It's really not that big of a deal though. If done properly, this will help the game/community a lot more than it'll hurt individual players.

I also agree with you on PGI's need to tread carefully with this. It has the potential to help the game, or to mess it up even more than it currently is.

WarHippy, on 27 November 2013 - 09:53 AM, said:

If people want to play in an Atlas then that is what they want to play in. Forcing them to play something they don't want to play does not make for an enjoyable gaming experience. People have different desires and requirements for what they find to be fun because people are <gasp> different.
Yeah, I mean all those evil ******** that want people to play what they want are the selfish ones not those happy go lucky gents that want everyone to play their way because their way is the best way.
What nonsense.

What do you do if you're going to play checkers with somebody and they take the colour that you want to play? Do you cry like a baby or play with the other colour for that round?

Games have been limiting people since the beginning of gaming - it's just a part of the package. The problem is that people have been spoiled with MWO because things weren't implemented when they should have been (ie. Tonnage Limits should have been in the game from the beginning) and now they whine and cry because things are changing. Besides, this isn't a hard "no" for your desired Mech at all. It'll all come down to the luck of the draw and your negotiating skills with your team...

Seriously though, if not being able to play the exact thing you want every single time is bothering you, I think you need some lessons in sharing.

Terciel1976, on 27 November 2013 - 10:24 AM, said:

BattleTech was always one of those "other games" for me. Had a buddy who was into it back in schooldays, but I was more into Car Wars (and later Advanced Squad Leader (and still am into that)). MW:O is really the first time I've given any thought to the universe. I have tried to gain some more knowledge, but I don't really know where to start. Even "synopses" on Sarna are long (and appallingly dry), so I'm a bit at a loss as to where to get a good overview. Have any suggestions?

Car Wars was an amazing game!

Edited by Fut, 27 November 2013 - 10:31 AM.

[Heffay]

Again:

Nothing is going to prevent you from dropping in the mech you want to play.

[YueFei]

Ngamok, on 27 November 2013 - 07:21 AM, said:

NFL tonnage limits is player count. They can only drop with 53 players but only 45 (46th is the inactive 3rd quarterback but is allowed to suit up) suit up, other 8 are listed as inactive. Team size is still 11 on the field.

Don't be daft, that's not a tonnage limit. That's a player limit, same way MWO matches have a 12v12 player limit.

In the NFL, they are allowed to put whatever weight of players onto the field that they feel is the best for their current down-and-distance situation. No one tells them they are not allowed to put 11 players who are all 300+ pounds. They simply don't do it because the game has roles that can't all be fulfilled by 300+ pound men, because the sport is well-designed.

MWO promised role warfare, not tonnage limits.

NO to tonnage limits. And I don't say this because I drive fatties. I have over 2 days spent in the Hunchback-4SP, it's my most-used ride.

[TercieI]

Fut, on 27 November 2013 - 10:29 AM, said:

Car Wars was an amazing game!

Now there's one I'd "legendarily found" an online version of tomorrow.

[kuangmk11]

Terciel1976, on 27 November 2013 - 10:24 AM, said:

I think that's all there was. Also, we all seem to be ignoring the giant neon "THESE NUMBERS ARE FOR DEMONSTRATION PURPOSES ONLY" sign they had on that post.

Then there seems to be a lot of misinformation in this thread. Going by the info ATD45 and the tweet this is how it will work:

Groups will need to be within a certain weight range before they can launch (not in some lobby after, at least not in the beginning). PUGS can take whatever mech they want. The matchmaker will work exactly the same as now but It will have a much easier time matching groups since the will have the same or similar total weights. Wait time won't go up, but it might go down.

Edited by kuangmk11, 27 November 2013 - 10:37 AM.

[Roadbeer]

kuangmk11, on 27 November 2013 - 10:36 AM, said:

Then there seems to be a lot of misinformation in this thread.

NO WAY! Not misinformation in a MWO Thread!

[Joseph Mallan]

Fut, on 27 November 2013 - 10:29 AM, said:

That's a really great question actually. Obviously I don't have an actual answer for you, but I can take some guesses.

- Perhaps the Match-Maker will take into account what Mechs the user has in their Garage, and will only throw them into a group that has enough free tonnes for an Atlas?

- Perhaps the game will force that player to use a Trial Mech unless somebody else on that team drops weight until 100T is free for the Atlas.

It's all wild speculation at this point.



Yes, I agree.
Tonnage limits will, at times, limit some players' choices.
It's really not that big of a deal though. If done properly, this will help the game/community a lot more than it'll hurt individual players.

I also agree with you on PGI's need to tread carefully with this. It has the potential to help the game, or to mess it up even more than it currently is.

What do you do if you're going to play checkers with somebody and they take the colour that you want to play? Do you cry like a baby or play with the other colour for that round?

Games have been limiting people since the beginning of gaming - it's just a part of the package. The problem is that people have been spoiled with MWO because things weren't implemented when they should have been (ie. Tonnage Limits should have been in the game from the beginning) and now they whine and cry because things are changing. Besides, this isn't a hard "no" for your desired Mech at all. It'll all come down to the luck of the draw and your negotiating skills with your team...

Seriously though, if not being able to play the exact thing you want every single time is bothering you, I think you need some lessons in sharing.

As to this analogy, Both red and Black Checkers are equal in every way but one. the same is not true for MechWarrior. When the Battlemaster is released for C-Bills I will own an Atlas-D, a Battlemaster-1G, and a Jenner (Sara) And the Sara is only for Charity. So my options are 85 or 100 tons.

[stjobe]

Heffay, on 27 November 2013 - 10:08 AM, said:

Are the people who are opposed to tonnage limits the same people who complain when someone starts capping their base?

Can't speak for anyone else, but I'm a light pilot by preference, and I think they need to be extremely careful if they want to introduce tonnage limits before role warfare. So much so I think it may be a death's blow to the game if badly implemented.

We want people to want to pilot lights and mediums, not force them to pilot lights and mediums. Role warfare is the way to achieve the former, tonnage limits the latter.

[Joseph Mallan]

Heffay, on 27 November 2013 - 10:08 AM, said:

Are the people who are opposed to tonnage limits the same people who complain when someone starts capping their base?




Nobody is forcing you to not drop in your Atlas.

I support Capping. And I support it from the Cockpit of my Atlas.

[Ngamok]

Fut, on 27 November 2013 - 10:29 AM, said:

Car Wars was an amazing game!

I still have it. Might be a little dusty. We used to play on an 8 track with a flag in the middle on a crosswalk. Win was 4 times around in first place or get out of the vehicle and grab the flag and run off the track.

[Roadbeer]

stjobe, on 27 November 2013 - 10:49 AM, said:

So much so I think it may be a death's blow to the game if badly implemented.

If I had a nickle for every potential "Death Blow" that ended up being a tempest in a tea cup, I'd have every thing you could possibly purchase with MC

stjobe, on 27 November 2013 - 10:49 AM, said:

We want people to want to pilot lights and mediums, not force them to pilot lights and mediums. Role warfare is the way to achieve the former, tonnage limits the latter.

I somewhat agree, but it's not an either/or, they can work hand in hand.

[Ngamok]

YueFei, on 27 November 2013 - 10:32 AM, said:

Don't be daft, that's not a tonnage limit. That's a player limit, same way MWO matches have a 12v12 player limit.

In the NFL, they are allowed to put whatever weight of players onto the field that they feel is the best for their current down-and-distance situation. No one tells them they are not allowed to put 11 players who are all 300+ pounds. They simply don't do it because the game has roles that can't all be fulfilled by 300+ pound men, because the sport is well-designed.

If in the future 300 pound guys are able to run a 4.3 40 then maybe. Right now, that's kinda of a tonnage limit in a way.

[stjobe]

Roadbeer, on 27 November 2013 - 10:54 AM, said:

If I had a nickle for every potential "Death Blow" that ended up being a tempest in a tea cup, I'd have every thing you could possibly purchase with MC

Absolutely. I agree, and please read carefully because I say "may" and "if implemented badly" - it's quite possible they may pull it off, and nobody would be happier than you and me.

But if we end up with people having the choice of dropping in a 'mech they don't want to play with or not playing at all, I'm afraid there's a lot of people that will choose the latter.

Roadbeer, on 27 November 2013 - 10:54 AM, said:

I somewhat agree, but it's not an either/or, they can work hand in hand.

Oh definitely. But role warfare needs to come before tonnage limits, because with role warfare implemented, tonnage limits is no longer an issue. If we have as many light/medium pilots as we have heavy/assault pilots tonnage limits won't even be noticed, but currently we seem to have somewhere around 60-70% heavy/assault pilots, and that's not going to cut it.

[Joseph Mallan]

Ngamok, on 27 November 2013 - 10:55 AM, said:

If in the future 300 pound guys are able to run a 4.3 40 then maybe. Right now, that's kinda of a tonnage limit in a way.

That's a performance limit.

[GoManGo]

From my point of view this game is all but dead. PGI/Brian-Russ built a game that is not MechWarrior and trying to animate the old leagues (MWL)(NBT) with weight limits yada yada yada with a ccrappy match maker Is just not going t make MWO shine. Its been 2 years and I check back now to see if the game has something to offer and hold me to pay and play and NO!! it does not new mechs get boring after a bit and the grind just sucks and does not make anyone want to stay and play.

If MWO had started out like the older MechWarrior games but enhanced and improved upon PGI would have had a winner game plus no mater how hard they try they cannot recreate the fun the old leauges were without a lobby and private matches.PGI would have to tear down the game and rebuild and I just dont see that happening any time soon.If this game had been made in US by US game developers in sure the game would have been so much better than it is.

Edited by GoManGo, 27 November 2013 - 11:14 AM.

[YueFei]

Ngamok, on 27 November 2013 - 10:55 AM, said:

If in the future 300 pound guys are able to run a 4.3 40 then maybe. Right now, that's kinda of a tonnage limit in a way.

And in a future where 300 pound men can run 4.3 40's, you better believe there will be 180 pound men who can run 3.5 40's, and *still* get to the edge faster, or streak downfield faster than the big guys can follow them.

Now imagine they changed the American football field to be only 30 feet wide, instead of 160 feet wide. Now suddenly all you have are 300+ pound men because there isn't enough room on the field to use your speedsters.

There is NO NEED FOR WEIGHT LIMITS in the NFL. There should also be NO NEED FOR TONNAGE LIMITS in MWO. You bring the best 12 pilots and the best 12 mechs you can bring to accomplish your mission. Your enemy should do the same. And let's see who wins. It's not for the game to artificially restrict you or anyone else. It's up to the developers to design maps and game modes that are varied enough that you will have a variety of drop decks you can use. And if that sometimes calls for 12 Assault mechs that's fine with me.

After all, even in the NFL, you'll see Jumbo packages brought out for short yardage situations.

Edited by YueFei, 27 November 2013 - 11:10 AM.

[TercieI]

Ngamok, on 27 November 2013 - 10:52 AM, said:

I still have it. Might be a little dusty. We used to play on an 8 track with a flag in the middle on a crosswalk. Win was 4 times around in first place or get out of the vehicle and grab the flag and run off the track.

I still have it all in a box. I even know where it is. All three pocket boxes, deluxe, the Compendium, a bunch of expansions and the dearly loved Uncle Albert's Catalog from (kiss my tookus, filter, I'm ahead of you this time). Man, how awesome would it be to drive around in $1500 cars in an arena online?

[stjobe]

GoManGo, on 27 November 2013 - 11:06 AM, said:

If this game had been made in US by US game developers in sure the game would have been so much better than it is.

Wow, what a statement.

Let's just put it this way: No US developer has had any interest in doing a Mechwarrior game for the last 10 years. Be grateful that some Canadians did.