63 replies to this topic

[Troopie]

I think it's bit unbalanced movement equipment.
Maybe atlas need one jj to get over some rock (gravel)

Fast mech's mostly uses only one jj. Ability to run jump+turn at same time. Run over hills with thrust. Poptarts need more thrust to upwards.

Maybe this should be some kind of module, but not module module

Should thrust affect to heating?

Edited by Troopie, 28 November 2013 - 11:50 AM.

[Victor Morson]

Keep in mind this changes wildly with each weight class too. Multiple JJs can make or break high jumps in heavier 'mechs in particular.

That said, I do think a lone JJ is currently a little too.. thrusty at the moment, I guess. In particular in lighter 'mechs. In a Highlander, it's way more noticeable.

Edited by Victor Morson, 28 November 2013 - 12:40 PM.

[Burke IV]

JJ should be either on or off, no "amounts of jets" JJ should jump, not thrust and definately a single jet should not operate like a 5 directional thruster. JJs are all wrong.


Edit: 20% fuel going up all the rest saving your legs landing, especially highlanders. smashed legs should be the result of bad pilots

Edited by Burke IV, 28 November 2013 - 12:46 PM.

[Victor Morson]

Burke IV, on 28 November 2013 - 12:44 PM, said:

JJ should be either on or off, no "amounts of jets"

Why on Earth would you do this? It was stupid in MW4 and it's stupid here. Changing the amount of thrust given by each Jet I can get behind, but why you'd want to remove options from the player is beyond me.

[Amsro]

I agree that the remainder of the jump jets added after the first should scale equally, but I think they should all have the same as the first jump jet, essentially buffing the whole range.

Currently JJ are a little lame, if you at least increased speed with more JJ it would be more exciting and make jump sniping much harder.

[Burke IV]

Victor Morson, on 28 November 2013 - 12:50 PM, said:

Why on Earth would you do this? It was stupid in MW4 and it's stupid here. Changing the amount of thrust given by each Jet I can get behind, but why you'd want to remove options from the player is beyond me.

It lets pgi set how far what mech can jump and for how much tonnage and leave it at that. For balance no other reason

[Corvus Antaka]

I've used more than 1 jumpjet. It's not worth losing the firepower over.

ever.

[Mycrus]

do you get more jump fuel if you have more JJs or does more jump jets just really add to jump height?

[FupDup]

Mycrus, on 30 November 2013 - 07:31 PM, said:

do you get more jump fuel if you have more JJs or does more jump jets just really add to jump height?

More jets make you fly up faster and farther.

[Mycrus]

FupDup, on 30 November 2013 - 07:33 PM, said:

More jets make you fly up faster and farther.

so by inference moar fuel or jump time with moar JJs mounted?

i use JJs for short jumps in combat...

[FupDup]

Mycrus, on 30 November 2013 - 07:36 PM, said:

so by inference moar fuel or jump time with moar JJs mounted?

i use JJs for short jumps in combat...

The fuel is the same, you just are able to get a lot more lift (and you'll lift faster) with a given amount of fuel if you use multiple jets. You'll definitely be in the air longer with moar jets due to the faster rate of climbing.

Edited by FupDup, 30 November 2013 - 07:39 PM.

[Captain Stiffy]

So let's really break it down

When someone goes to develop something like this they are after different sets of parabolic curves.

One jet and 8 in THIS GAME potentially have the same maximum height as one jet.

The problem is that unless you can hit the top of that arc PERFECTLY you aren't going to be able to jump up onto something at your max height without extreme skill and even then you are going to get there a LOT slower.

Here I am, many posts later, again I say:

Having one jet does let you fly but it sucks and you always want more. Mechs that can load one single jumpjet are balanced for jets.

WHAT IS THE REAL PROBLEM?

[Corbon Zackery]

I would have to agree I have 1 spider with a JJ and the amount of height and distance I get is crazy for a one hex jump.

[Captain Stiffy]

Corbon Zackery, on 30 November 2013 - 11:57 PM, said:

I would have to agree I have 1 spider with a JJ and the amount of height and distance I get is crazy for a one hex jump.

[color=#959595]Having one jet does let you fly but it sucks and you always want more. Mechs that can load one single jumpjet are balanced for jets.[/color]

[color=#959595]WHAT IS THE REAL PROBLEM? [/color]

[Lightfoot]

Makes no difference. One jjet just gets you up inclines despite what the pip says in Mechlab. I think the first jjet might be factoring in forward mometum from the mech walking which would only occur with the first jjet. That seems to be what happens because my mechs with jjets don't fly 21 meters up in the air when they only have one. I don't really care myself since I usually don't equip them.

[Captain Stiffy]

Having one jet does let you fly but it sucks and you always want more. Mechs that can load one single jumpjet are balanced for jets.
WHAT IS THE REAL PROBLEM?

[Tahribator]

It has nothing to do with "one jumpjet is too good". The game gives you an extra impulse every time you tap jumpjets to quickly give you some initial vertical velocity. Afterwards your jumpjets take over.

Without this extra impulse you would barely get off the ground with only 1JJ. There is a very noticable difference between 1 and 5JJ in terms of max height reached and how quickly.

[Adiuvo]

Tahribator, on 01 December 2013 - 01:19 AM, said:

It has nothing to do with "one jumpjet is too good". The game gives you an extra impulse every time you tap jumpjets to quickly give you some initial vertical velocity. Afterwards your jumpjets take over.

Without this extra impulse you would barely get off the ground with only 1JJ. There is a very noticable difference between 1 and 5JJ in terms of max height reached and how quickly.

That's a fairly recent change. People used only 1JJ long before it was ever implemented.

It also doesn't provide vertical acceleration, so it doesn't increase jump jet height anyways. What it does is apply a 14.7km horizontal speed buff that overrides hill related deceleration.

Edited by Adiuvo, 01 December 2013 - 01:57 AM.

[RavensScar]

I think the problem is the perceived weight vs. reward. If I have a mech with 1 MLas, and add a second, I double the weight of weapons, but vastly increase my damage output.

Similarly, adding an extra ton of ammo has a significant effect on your endurance in a match.

Adding a second JJ seems to give very little reward, despite the fact you've doubled the weight you're dedicating to them.

[John MatriX82]

I think the issue isn't that 1 or 2 or more JJ are "too good".

The issue is that the movement archetypes destroyed the piloting experience of anything that it's not JJ-capable.

This because a tiny rock or a ridge that is tall as half of your lower-leg literally stops you from advancing, rather than slowing you down but allowing you to pass that area.

Mechs have knee joints, if anything is tall as your knee, you should be able to walk it over. That's why JJs "are too good", because the movement has been nerfed to the ground, too much.
I understand that before things were incredibly silly, but we're at a point that basically anything can halt your speed -> everyone uses JJs. Change how movement archetypes work, suddendly also non-JJ capable mechs would be enjoyable again. But to see any change in this we'll have to wait that PGI has to wake-up.. so we may stay like this for 1 year before they realize.

Edited by John MatriX82, 01 December 2013 - 02:25 AM.