565 replies to this topic

[Heffay]

xTurinx, on 07 December 2013 - 08:21 PM, said:

Last I checked Vaporware referred to items (real or electronic) that are never actually delivered despite repeated proclamations and promises of delivery in the near future.

Ala UI2.0 and CW

I wish I had kept a running list of all the times dates or time frames were given for the release of UI2.0 and CW to see how much they have slipped from initial statements. I'm betting CW is at least a year behind initial estimates.

We've had 2 public tests of UI 2.0. That's not vaporware anymore.

[Nekki Basara]

Volthorne, on 07 December 2013 - 08:16 PM, said:

All fair points. That doesn't change the fact that PGI is definitely making forward progress in terms of development, even if the steps are miniscule right now. Could they put in a little more effort to make the game interesting and cool? Sure, I don't disagree.

DE is basically going nowhere fast (they've had to redesign the damage system once (which is still badly designed/balanced after the rework), and have reworked bosses multiple times, removed, renamed, and reimplemented a mission "type", and designed ONE whole new set of map tiles after a year(ish) - which equates to a single map for comparison).

From what I heard the map generation is procedural in some fashion, so every launch is different. The tileset is just window dressing, like new mech skins really. That said, this information is old, poorly remembered and I care so little about WarFrame that I am not going to bother to look it up. I might remember to ask one of my friends who plays next time I'm in the local comic shop/nerdcave but by then the thread will have long moved on.

Volthorne, on 07 December 2013 - 08:16 PM, said:

Let me put it this way: gameplay is so quick - even "quicker" than CoD if that's a Thing - that playing on a console is basically torture from some of the stuff I've read (think ME3MP except most of the enemies run 1.5x as fast as Husks). Especially some of the mastery tests which serve no purpose except to lock away content because reasons.

I haven't played ME3 at all, but back when I played CoD on console I couldn't stand anything that wasn't Hardcore mode. I don't know why, but something about the way weapons worked in my five minutes of Warframe suggested that a controller would make it so much easier.

[xTurinx]

Heffay, on 07 December 2013 - 08:30 PM, said:

We've had 2 public tests of UI 2.0. That's not vaporware anymore.

Demo's don't count, lots of stuff has had great demo's at various expo's and never actually been delivered to paying customers.

[Ogunn]

FIrst of All Thanks for all the Hard Work.

I feel great trepidation when I read your post "It is at this time that we must stress once again that we will not be bringing Clan Tech into the game as it was originally written." I do not know the reasoning behind that decison but I got to think it will do more to hurt this game than help. That is why I put together some ideas I have on how you could introduce the Clans as written and still provide balanced game play.

Before the Clans are allowed to fight in the Inner Sphere. There should be a period of time where the Clans fight each other for resources. These resources could be weapons, mechs, dropships, jumpships etc (Trials of Possesion). Before each game opposing teams should have an opportunity to perform batchalls.Where each team bids what they feel is the minimal amount of forces needed for the match. Each successive bid lowers the amount of mechs and or weight needed. The lower the bid, the more resources the winning team will win.

Enough time should be given to build up the Clan player base before the actual invasion of inner sphere space.

Balancing can be achieved in actual game play. Not by Nerfing Clan tech.

The following suggestions are my ideas on how to keep game play balanced once the Clans are introduced.

1) Players that want to field Clan Mechs should be forced to drop on a team comprised of only Clan mechs.They should also be forced to pic a Clan Faction. No such thing as a lone wolf clanner

2) Innersphere teams should be given a 100+ Tonnage advantage over Clan Teams. For Example Clan Team is limited to 700Tons IS Team 840Tons

3) In addition to weight, Inner sphere teams should also have a number advantage. For example 1 Clan Star (5 mechs) vs 2 Innersphere lances (8 mechs). Or 2 Clan Stars (10 mechs) vs 3 Innersphere lances (12 mechs).

4) Clan Teams with a lower Drop Tonnage should be moved to the top of the matchmaking queue.Clans value efficency above all and abhor waste.

5) The Cost to purchase Clan tech and repair Clan tech should be extremely high 2 - 3 times the cost of IS tech

6) There should be Only 2 ways to acquire Clan tech. Buying the mech with MC. Or salvage that becomes available after a Victory over a Clan Team.

Clan tech salvage should be awarded only to the pilots that do most or all of the damage to a Clan mech. For those that engage a Clan mech and win in 1 on 1 combat they should be awarded a damaged chasis in their mech bay.

7) Clan Omnimechs should not have hard point restrictions. the only exception would be the legs.

Thanks

Edited by Ogunn, 08 December 2013 - 12:01 PM.

[Nekki Basara]

I'm not sure you understand the problems with Clantech.

[Deathlike]

xTurinx, on 08 December 2013 - 08:55 AM, said:

Demo's don't count, lots of stuff has had great demo's at various expo's and never actually been delivered to paying customers.

It (UI 2.0) will be forced upon us, bugs and all. It's only a matter of time.

The problem is that the proposed mechlab is further backwards in design than what we have now.

Edited by Deathlike, 08 December 2013 - 11:32 AM.

[Ogunn]

Nekki Basara, on 08 December 2013 - 10:18 AM, said:

I'm not sure you understand the problems with Clantech.

Nekki please describe the problems with clantech.

[Blurry]

Heffay, on 05 December 2013 - 05:06 PM, said:

That word... I don't think you're using it right.

get back to me on when stuff launches ok? CW,UI 2.0 ect
cause right now looks like it has been well over a year and this is becoming Duke Nukem.
or milkem high and dry.
or does you prefer pump and dump?

I know which one the Duke does!

Vaporware till it is ingame for everyone. They will have content - again vaporware.

[Blurry]

Windies, on 05 December 2013 - 10:17 AM, said:

It's moar credible than the same 1-1 person posting over and over again, then going over to the Star Citizen forums to post over and over again.

star citizen is going to be {Scrap} - it may look nice and be pretty ships but that is it. The community there is the worst I have ever come in contact with. Yes I have spent a substantial amount there but I realize what it is going to be.
The fanatics will have their way and it will be {Scrap} play - count on it. They use LTI as a money grab and other tactics that make EA proud but try to distance themselves. Nope the game aint got no future.

Only those who dont go out beyond the forums hide from the truth of what it is.

[Nekki Basara]

Ogunn, on 08 December 2013 - 12:02 PM, said:

Nekki please describe the problems with clantech.

The same that they have always been. Balancing straight upgrades over regular tech is HARD. I've given PGI **** for lots of mistakes over the last year or so, but not getting Clantech into the game yet is something I can't blame them for. It's still not balanced in TT because that has a different set of requirements for gameplay.

In the framework established here there is no single metric which will balance it. Tonnage won't work. Cbills won't work. "Battle Value" won't work. It's not possible to account for pilot skill at all here, which TT does. More importantly, it's not possible to account for optimisation skill or the ability to predict the meta to the point where you are driving next month's flavour this month. Just look at the problems with 3025 tech and Star League stuff right now. Who uses single heat sinks ever?

TL;DR: Clantech will make the current balance situation even messier.

[Imawuss]

I think i get it now.

You guys code as fast as you write.
That is to say 3 months for 3 pages of writing (i'm being generous here).

Honestly guys i've downloaded Cryengine 3 SDK to learn how to mod Star Citizen when it comes out, i've accomplished more in 3 weeks screwing with that with only a few hours a day than you guys have in 1 year.

I don't see how anyone can take your timeline or company seriously when you've missed every single deadline you have set for yourselves and have not had 1 major update to the game since "luanch" or hell even your so called beta despite all your "announcements" that CW is coming. I wish you guys luck when your company folds as you will need it because if i was hiring i would not hire anyone with PGI as a reference.

[Heffay]

xTurinx, on 08 December 2013 - 08:55 AM, said:

Demo's don't count, lots of stuff has had great demo's at various expo's and never actually been delivered to paying customers.

Of course they don't count if you just keep moving the goalposts.

If they do release it, will you say it doesn't count because it's not good enough for you?

[cSand]

Looks like this game is just going to keep getting better,
keep it up

Imawuss, on 08 December 2013 - 07:36 PM, said:

I think i get it now.

You guys code as fast as you write.
That is to say 3 months for 3 pages of writing (i'm being generous here).

Honestly guys i've downloaded Cryengine 3 SDK to learn how to mod Star Citizen when it comes out, i've accomplished more in 3 weeks screwing with that with only a few hours a day than you guys have in 1 year.

I don't see how anyone can take your timeline or company seriously when you've missed every single deadline you have set for yourselves and have not had 1 major update to the game since "luanch" or hell even your so called beta despite all your "announcements" that CW is coming. I wish you guys luck when your company folds as you will need it because if i was hiring i would not hire anyone with PGI as a reference.

looks out guys the big guns are in town

which way is the beach?

[Nekki Basara]

On the island EVERY way gets you to the beach!

[p8ragon]

hey er is there a reason why this post today http://mwomercs.com/...88#entry2972988

links to this information again?

[giganova]

p8ragon, on 09 December 2013 - 11:03 AM, said:

hey er is there a reason why this post today http://mwomercs.com/...88#entry2972988

links to this information again?

Yes, there is a reason, it is known as laziness. The December 2nd Update shall henceforth be referred to as the End of Year Update! So it is written. Oh, and it's still 3050.

Edited by giganova, 09 December 2013 - 11:18 AM.

[SpiralFace]

Nekki Basara, on 08 December 2013 - 07:23 PM, said:

In the framework established here there is no single metric which will balance it. Tonnage won't work. Cbills won't work. "Battle Value" won't work. It's not possible to account for pilot skill at all here, which TT does. More importantly, it's not possible to account for optimisation skill or the ability to predict the meta to the point where you are driving next month's flavour this month. Just look at the problems with 3025 tech and Star League stuff right now. Who uses single heat sinks ever?

TL;DR: Clantech will make the current balance situation even messier.

Agreed, and there is no "easy solution."

At its Heart, BT was a tabletop wargame in a BG format. Currently, clantech is very well balanced in the core game through both battle value, AND force composition. (if you want to play exclusively clan faction WITH clan pilots, you pay for both the premium on their mechs AND the 30% tick to get what the clans concider their "regular" pilots in the frame.)

These kinds of mechanics do not translate into a shooter, nor should they. But it makes it a hell of a time to actually get something "engaging" out of the experiance.

Me personally?

Even if Clan weapons worked 1 for 1 exactly like IS weapons, they would still be greatly superior to IS weapons due to their more efficient construction.

You are not going to be able to get around this. Many cannon clan mechs USE this extensively to just make their basic Cannon variants. I don't see a way that they can both "balance" the weapons, "bring in line" both the construction of clan mechs as well as the weapons without altering the cannon load outs of the said designs.

To that end, I would rather see them create different faction play options. So Clan players drop in with half the tonnage, and only 5-10 players max and have them stay powerful then apply arbitrary changes to them.

As I said, even if they keep the weapon profiles 1 for 1, you are still not going to get around their superior construction rules. Not unless you do something drastic like physically change ALL the load outs of the cannon chassis'. Which in of itself would see people up in arms about.

Edited by SpiralFace, 09 December 2013 - 11:49 AM.

[DOMDOM]

MWO is dead. They aren't going to close their doors tomorrow but they are definitely circling the drain. It's now a question of how long they can continue to milk what's left of the diehards supplemented by the occasional new player who wanders in for a few hours before giving up.

The problem is you really only get one shot with most folks and by choosing to arbitrarily launch so feature incomplete they squandered all hope of getting this game off the ground. These people aren't coming back.
,
How long you let them string you along is up to you, but you are deluding yourself if you think pgi is capable of executing this game. At this point there's serious concern that they are just cash grabbing to recoup investments and that there is no long term plan beyond a tearful farewell in the next year or so.

[M4NTiC0R3X]

DOMDOM, on 09 December 2013 - 12:39 PM, said:

MWO is dead. They aren't going to close their doors tomorrow but they are definitely circling the drain. It's now a question of how long they can continue to milk what's left of the diehards supplemented by the occasional new player who wanders in for a few hours before giving up.

The problem is you really only get one shot with most folks and by choosing to arbitrarily launch so feature incomplete they squandered all hope of getting this game off the ground. These people aren't coming back.
,
How long you let them string you along is up to you, but you are deluding yourself if you think pgi is capable of executing this game. At this point there's serious concern that they are just cash grabbing to recoup investments and that there is no long term plan beyond a tearful farewell in the next year or so.

[Chuckie]

Burning Chrome, on 04 December 2013 - 01:15 PM, said:

When I saw UI2.0 I couldn't believe all that time was wasted.

All that effort into something that has minimal impact on gameplay and is worse than the what we have now.

FAIL.

<snip>

Too few steps forward, so many back.

^ What he said..

As one of the very first Closed Beta testers.. and a member of the community since November 1st.. 2011 ( Original Call sign was 1stSgtChuckie)

It truly saddens me to see how far they came the first year or so and how little they have done since Open Beta..

YOU know all the things we were promised would come soone after closed beta..? and then after Open Beta..?

Dropship gamemode

CW promises and delays

DirectX 11 improvements

To name only a few..

Instead we get UI2.0 something that has nothing to do with anything. OK even if you buy the we have to code a whole new GUI due to restraints in the current one.. Fine.. No need to reinvent the MechLab.. NONE.. You can keep the current Mechlab and buff it up a little while you work on important stuff... Saves time and effort.

Instead we are told this half a$$ed GUI will be pushed on us before its even ready or useable.. WOW Just WOW...

I was the biggest Defender of PGI during the Closed and Open Beta..

But I'm starting to think they really don't care anymore and are simply happy to get this far and cash a few big checks, and sell whats left to someone else to finish. Because that's what its looking like to me. Otherwise they wouldn't waste money on things that mean nothing to the community and keep putting off the things we have been waiting for since Closed Beta.

Edited by Chuckie, 09 December 2013 - 01:18 PM.