148 replies to this topic

[Redshift2k5]

• Fun
  
• lighter
  
• easy

does every weapon need to be top tier to satisfy some people? If you don't like it don't use it.

[TercieI]

Sybreed, on 03 December 2013 - 07:21 AM, said:

Because it's one ton lighter

9% weight savings. The 10 is 25% better IMO. I'll find the ton elsewhere. (Or save 2 more and equip a UAC/5...)

627, on 03 December 2013 - 07:30 AM, said:

Fun ?


Kids these days...

That I'll buy. I didn't find it so, but it's a good reason if you do.

Edited by Terciel1976, 03 December 2013 - 07:41 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

Redshift2k5, on 03 December 2013 - 07:40 AM, said:

• Fun
  
• lighter
  
• easy

does every weapon need to be top tier to satisfy some people? If you don't like it don't use it.

eloquently put sir. I agree completely.

[Davers]

General Taskeen, on 03 December 2013 - 07:35 AM, said:

Still funny that people think LB-X is for "light hunting." Cracks me up every time.

Take an MWO AC/10 or AC/20 if you know how to aim. *Poof* The Light you shot at magically loses a Leg, or magically just dies instantly.

AC/20 is the best light hunting weapon out there.

[DaZur]

While I've seen some players do well with the LBX as their primary weapon it's fairly rare.

That said, anyone who beleives the LBX is not a potent weapon is using is wrong...

In short... If you strip armor with your energy weapons and or DPS weapons, THEN apply the LBX hit... You can make easy work of opposing mechs when brawling. Opening your engagement with the LBX is not going to do much more than scratch paint...

Folks get so caught up in lore "fluff" that they don't stop to rationalize MW:O mechanics and adjust accordingly...

Edited by DaZur, 03 December 2013 - 07:50 AM.

[Mr 144]

High Ping

Low-end Graphics

Old (lacking whipper-snapper twitch skills)

Drunk

( I personally do not suffer from high ping )

[Khobai]

Quote

If the LB10X had a tighter spread pattern (even if its only within the first 250m) then it could be better.

Um then it would just be a better AC/10.

The WHOLE point of the LB10X is the spread. The spread is not really the problem. The spread is actually what defines the weapon. The problem is the LB10X is actually one of the worst crit weapons in the game because all the pellets hit different items in the location. While the AC/10 is one of the best crit weapons in the game because it does 10 damage at once to items.

Fixing the LB10X is pretty easy:
1) increase the spread (its too tight now IMO)
2) change the spread to a cylinder shape instead of a cone shape so accuracy isnt lost over distance
3) increase crit damage modifier on pellets so the LBX10 crits better than the AC10
4) give the LB10X the ability to switch between cluster and slug projectiles. But make it fire slugs at a 3.75 cooldown (50% slower than the AC/10)

Basically that turns the LB10X into the swiss army knife its supposed to be. You can fire slugs to penetrate armor then switch to cluster rounds to get crits. But for pure dps the AC/10 would still be better.

Edited by Khobai, 03 December 2013 - 08:15 AM.

[Thorqemada]

Its a fun weapon that is bad at range and bad against small targets (its not a good Light-Killer) but at close range it delivers its damage well and its...fun.

Minimax wont use that weapon bcs fun does not make you win^^

[Appogee]

DaZur, on 03 December 2013 - 07:49 AM, said:

anyone who beleives the LBX is not a potent weapon is using is wrong...

This.

[John MatriX82]

LBX 10 screams for the single shot bore. Make it do some splash damage to differentiate it from the AC10, like 7-8 points on hit section+splash, otherwise range-wise, it's a joke that the LBX has more reach than an AC 10.

Of course make that to shoot single slugs you have to feed the gun with the proper ammo, if you load LBX ammo then you have to switch to the two kinds of weapons and waste a recycle time in doing that.

Joseph Mallan, on 03 December 2013 - 06:31 AM, said:

If you are only using ACs you are playing the game wrong. Both My (F)Atlas and My Victor(s) use all three of the basic food groups. and they are working fine.

Good luck with ammo critical hits with those builds.
The AS7-D can make use of the case in the LT to cover from SRM ammo, but the RT is totally uncovered with 3 ammo packs screaming to explode; the DHS in the RT increases the chances to see it destroyed instead of 1 or both the AC5s.

VTR-9B uses a CASE with a XL engine, which is pointless, even counter-productive; if the case slot is subject from a crit-roll, the thing can't be destroyed, thus the crit dmg is re-rolled on the remaining slots, increasing their chance to see those ammo packs blown-up and destroying your side torso containing the XL engine. CASE atm is useless when used with XL engines, it protects the side from ammo explosions, not just the 9 crit slots below the XL engine.

Before anybody asks, ammo in the head it's the first to get comsumed, so the possibilities to have it still in place in case you're getting headshotted is rather low; if you get hit by a 33+ alpha, having that ammo in place or not changes nothing, you die nevertheless .

[Joseph Mallan]

I accept the probability of ammo hits as a part of playing the game. So thank you or your warning an concern.

[3rdworld]

It is cool to use, and does decent damage against unarmored targets.

But as far as being a great choice in weaponry. No.

[Barantor]

Terciel1976, on 03 December 2013 - 06:56 AM, said:

See also: why would you ever equip it in place of an AC/10?

"Crit seeking" isn't worth what you give up, IMO.

In BT lore I believe they started not to have many ac/10s around except on mechs that weren't worth the upgrades (second line, etc) and it wasn't until the special AC rounds came out later that the normal AC/10 came back into style since the LBX I don't believe could fire them.

In MW games they have always been a shotgun type autocannon to my knowledge and it seems to work ok.

Best I've done with an LBX shadowhawk was 900+ damage and most of that was on some poor sap stalker that was dumb enough to run off on his own in terra therma....

[MustrumRidcully]

Khobai, on 03 December 2013 - 08:07 AM, said:

Um then it would just be a better AC/10.

The WHOLE point of the LB10X is the spread. The spread is not really the problem. The spread is actually what defines the weapon. The problem is the LB10X is actually one of the worst crit weapons in the game because all the pellets hit different items in the location. While the AC/10 is one of the best crit weapons in the game because it does 10 damage at once to items.

Fixing the LB10X is pretty easy:
1) increase the spread (its too tight now IMO)
2) change the spread to a cylinder shape instead of a cone shape so accuracy isnt lost over distance

This is definitely what you need to do together. So far, the devs only made the spread smaller. That way lies the AC/10, we don't need two of them (and certainly not one that's 1 ton lighter and 1 crit smaller and 1 heat cooler). The sticking point is that the growing spread neuters its range completely, and that at the range it's still effective there are better options. (some may be 1-3 tons heavier, but they dealbetter alpha and DPS damage.)

Quote

3) increase crit damage modifier on pellets so the LBX10 crits better than the AC10

I think this will be very difficult to achieve due to the way crits work. Of course, some people will also argue about what "critting better" even means. I think the safest bet in regards to crit is to make sure that the LBX (in canister/shotgun mode) deals more damage to internals.You still won't necessarily take out components better, but at least the enemy mech dies a bit faster.

Quote

4) give the LB10X the ability to switch between cluster and slug projectiles. But make it fire slugs at a 3.75 cooldown (50% slower than the AC/10)

Since it's only 1 ton lighter (90 % lighter), I think 50 % slower ROF is a bit excessive (especially if you have to pack different ammo for both), but 15-25 % might be reasonable.

Quote

Basically that turns the LB10X into the swiss army knife its supposed to be. You can fire slugs to penetrate armor then switch to cluster rounds to get crits. But for pure dps the AC/10 would still be better.

If they stick with the expanding spread model and no solid-slug mode, then I think the only solution can be raising its damage output to some extent. Of course, that makes it a short range brawler weapon, where canonical it's also a good med to long range weapon.,

[Jun Watarase]

Even in MW4, the LBX weapons did way more damage than the normal ACs to compensate for their relatively short range and inability for pinpoint damage. The downside was that normal ACs were too weak compared to gauss....which kinda mirrors what happened in MWO. People only took LBX for cityfight maps, with PPC/Gauss + JJ being the go to build for everything else.

[Artgathan]

Sybreed, on 03 December 2013 - 06:55 AM, said:

If a lbx can use both cluster and slug rounds, the question is: why would you use cluster rounds?

The intelligent thing to do (IMO) would be to boost the crit-seeking ability of LBX rounds further (giving them more damage against internals).

HOWEVER! At the same time, you give slug rounds less shots/ton (say, half the regular amount on an AC/10 - so LBX slug rounds get 7/8 shots/ton). Therefore if you really want a ballistic 10 damage pinpoint weapon, equip an AC/10. If you just want a few pinpoint (IE: slug rounds) to crack the armor before you unleash crit-seeking hell, bring an LBX/10.

[MeiSooHaityu]

I really only like the LBX in a couple of circumstances.

One: On a light mech where that 1 ton weight savings goes far (LBX Raven). Also, on a fast moving light, it is nice to have the spread of the LBX because the quick torso movements make it difficult for me to pinpoint strike on the run.

Two: When carrying 2 or more (especially 3 on the Ilya). the shortcomings of the weapon are masked a bit when boating them. I could ditch the 3MLasers in the Ilya and go 3 A/C10s, but 3 LBXs with 3MLasers is a more well rounded build IMO. That is just preference though.

[Master Q]

Khobai, on 03 December 2013 - 08:07 AM, said:

Um then it would just be a better AC/10.

The WHOLE point of the LB10X is the spread. The spread is not really the problem. The spread is actually what defines the weapon. The problem is [...]

The problem is that it's a spread weapon in a game where, thanks to raw incompetence of game design, the entire meta is based around pinpoint damage alphas.

That, in a nutshell, is what has been wrong with this game for over a year. The devs don't pay attention to what's going on, and refuse to recognize that the pinpoint alpha BUG infesting this game destroys the notion of game balance.

[Zyllos]

The reasoning why LBX is not a better weapon is two fold:

• Convergence
  
• Incorrect firing mechanic for the LBX

Convergence really hurts the effectiveness of weapons that have natural spread. LRMs, SRMs, and the LBX all have natural spread, because no matter how many of the same weapon you fire, they will never hit the same location. ACs, PPCs, lasers, and Gauss Rifle, when fired together, will hit the same location every time. This makes those weapons with natural spread just not useful within the meta.

The incorrect firing mechanic would be the "shotgun" effect of the LBX. It's suppose to fire a flak canister that explodes when next to a solid object, releasing a spray of pellets in the direction it's travelling. What this does is make the spread similar at all ranges, which allows the LBX to be utilized at the extended ranges without any performance degradation except when going beyond the range limit.

As a minor disadvantage, the critical damage system also works against a weapon that does multiple hits to get critical hits because items have HP. It's just better to have weapons that do high damage to one item with a low chance than multiple small hits with high critical hit chance.

[Joseph Mallan]

Like a Glazer safety round Zyllos?