110 replies to this topic

[sneeking]

if the matching was intelligent and put combo's of 1×heavy or assult with 2x medium and 1x light ( now thats a big if ) now imagin that it could compensate by having a waiting list of players with suitable equipment so it could counter the disconects, now you at least have half a fighting chance if you can communicate lol.

tall order ?

[Levon K]

When that sort of thing happens to me, I know I've brought the wrong mech to the battle.

Ease up on the Meta builds, ease up on the front-loaded firepower, start putting bigger engines in your assaults, or bring a lighter mech with a little more maneuverability. I'm assuming you're Pugging? Self-sustenance is key.

Also don't feel bad, because if your teammates left you for dead, then they've ultimately made the decision to significantly lower their chances of winning. Move onto the next match. Take the loss as a drop to ELO, perhaps you'll have a better chance of being placed on the winning side next time.

[Ahasver]

Btw.
I totally agree that the Lances (Alpha, Beta and Chalie) drop together as defined in the Prematch screen.
For me it is a Bug that this is not the case.

[Mcchuggernaut]

Ahasver, on 04 December 2013 - 03:25 AM, said:

This is clearly the fault of your Teammates leaving you alone. And this said, there is something you can do about this situation, it is called Teamplay.

Yes, that is true. It is also true that a bad starting position just makes it worse. New players being lost, the occasional Leeroy Jenkins or stoned gamer will always be with us. Lets not make it worse by making situations where bad teamwork is responsible even worse, is what I am saying. Pug life is hard enough, haha.

[sneeking]

Levon K, on 04 December 2013 - 03:38 AM, said:

When that sort of thing happens to me, I know I've brought the wrong mech to the battle.

Ease up on the Meta builds, ease up on the front-loaded firepower, start putting bigger engines in your assaults, or bring a lighter mech with a little more maneuverability. I'm assuming you're Pugging? Self-sustenance is key.

Also don't feel bad, because if your teammates left you for dead, then they've ultimately made the decision to significantly lower their chances of winning. Move onto the next match. Take the loss as a drop to ELO, perhaps you'll have a better chance of being placed on the winning side next time.

philosophical

[Mcchuggernaut]

Levon K, on 04 December 2013 - 03:38 AM, said:

When that sort of thing happens to me, I know I've brought the wrong mech to the battle.

Ease up on the Meta builds, ease up on the front-loaded firepower, start putting bigger engines in your assaults, or bring a lighter mech with a little more maneuverability. I'm assuming you're Pugging? Self-sustenance is key.

I run pretty big engines because being so slow annoys me. That being said, an Atlas will never be fast. I have to get to bed now, so I won't be replying for a while. I guess my final words till I'm back on are that I think this is an unnecessary handicap that would be solved by fine-tuning the spawn points or putting them a bit closer together. Also, most of them are fine. This is mostly only a problem at some specific points on some big maps in certain spawn configurations, so I don't hate the new spawn system. It just needs a little work.

[CarpetShark]

Alistair Winter, on 04 December 2013 - 01:43 AM, said:

What's your solution?

Easy. Reverse this decision and have the lance spawns near one another again. Problem solved.

This is a team game. It'd be nice if I got to even see my team before the enemy is upon me and rips me to shreds.

[Joseph Mallan]

Mcchuggernaut, on 04 December 2013 - 01:37 AM, said:

Some of the new spawns are great.

That being said, a few are deathtraps. Terra Therma has one of the worst examples. Especially for big mechs that don't move very fast and can't easily regroup. People are starting to figure this out and exploit it. Twice I have been mobbed literally 2 minutes into the game when I fell behind all the other fast mechs trying to get back together and was annihilated. There is nothing you can do in that situation, and it is an unfair disadvantage. People are figuring it out and charging to the spawn points in fast mechs to swarm and pick off the heavies and assaults before they can get to the rest of the team. This would be OK if you didn't get dropped in a lance where you were with a bunch of scout mechs or mediums that ran off and left you, but it often happens. It's irritating, and spending half the game on big maps just trying to reach your team and hoping you don't get found and swarmed by lights and mediums with no backup just takes the fun out of the game.

Instead of penalizing starting in a big mech, how about you fix this, PGI? It's irritating enough having to spend half the game walking instead of fighting on Terra Therma and Alpine if you aren't a scout, and we shouldn't also have to worry about this nonsense.

Chugger, this sounds more like your team not playing smart, than you having a problem "catching up". First thing teams need to do is find out the bottom speed of their members and form up on them. Then send scouts out. I keep saying teamwork needs to be added to the Pilot's tree but folks think I am joking.

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 04 December 2013 - 04:28 AM.

[o0Marduk0o]

Mcchuggernaut, on 04 December 2013 - 01:37 AM, said:

That being said, a few are deathtraps. Terra Therma has one of the worst examples. Especially for big mechs that don't move very fast and can't easily regroup. People are starting to figure this out and exploit it. Twice I have been mobbed literally 2 minutes into the game when I fell behind all the other fast mechs trying to get back together and was annihilated. There is nothing you can do in that situation, and it is an unfair disadvantage.

How you can get killed with a lance around you and only 1 enemy lance close to you? Sounds like a good fight without zerging like it was before. Blame your teammates and not the spawn mechanic change.
Fight as a lance and ask for support from other lances if the resistance is too strong.

[Kotzi]

This would have been better released with a. tonnage limit b. the ability to choose mechs. As by now this doesnt change anything. Those who kamikaze will still do those who know teamplay leads to victory group up.

Edited by Kotzi, 04 December 2013 - 04:40 AM.

[MustrumRidcully]

Asmudius Heng, on 04 December 2013 - 02:48 AM, said:

Lance chat is your friend.

Organise your lance even in pugs. you have just 3 people to create a rough game plan with.

Nothing will stop ***** team mates doesnt matter the spawn points.

Also reversing and giving ground to regroup elsewhere is a viable tactic you dont need to push forward as your only option.

It might also help if the match-maker automatically creates the lances with weight or speed differences in mind. That wouldn't affect the match-making directly, just how it populates the team once it already made the match. Then you could still rearrange (and pre-existing teams would not need to be affected) if you wanted, but the default would be useable.

Edited by MustrumRidcully, 04 December 2013 - 04:43 AM.

[New Day]

Mcchuggernaut, on 04 December 2013 - 01:49 AM, said:

I see you around the forums a lot and know you are respected here. Feel free to tell me if I am being stupid.

Well, I did present a problem without a clear solution. I suppose starting the lances closer together to allow easier re-grouping would help. Maybe fine-tuning them so some of the ones that are very hard to regroup from are re-positioned. If we were able to group heavies/assaults in lances, and lights and mediums together that would also help, but that might not be practical. I do think something needs done though, and wonder if others are in agreement.

I'm not a game designer so I am sure someone else could probably find a better idea than me. I just felt this should be brought to someone in authority's attention.

On a side note: Those are the exceptions. I have enjoyed the vast majority of the new spawns.

and easier solution would be to group mechs in lances by top speed (not class).

EDIT: whoops too late

o0Marduk0o, on 04 December 2013 - 04:35 AM, said:

How you can get killed with a lance around you and only 1 enemy lance close to you? Sounds like a good fight without zerging like it was before. Blame your teammates and not the spawn mechanic change.
Fight as a lance and ask for support from other lances if the resistance is too strong.

he probably falls behind and gets swarmed by the light/medium lance

Edited by NamesAreStupid, 04 December 2013 - 04:44 AM.

[sneeking]

you can't blame them if they are not team mates but rather a miss matched bunch of randoms who you have never communicated with and you're incompatible by the very nature of your individual setups.

some will bash me for this but every pug lance should consist of an assult or heavy with two mediums and one light.

[Livewyr]

I think the spawns are meant to encourage more lance based behavior. Your issue is one of the ways to encourage it.

Lances should be operating with lances, especially on Terra Therma, where walking around as a blob results in teams missing each other entirely.

Matches need to start taking more of Commanders/Lances flavor.. directing your lances to achieve objectives.. the spawns area step toward that.

[sneeking]

in that configuration it would be feasible to force an end to the blob while giving pug lances a chance to give talking a try.

if they fail in such a format then yes you can blame teamwork but to say teamwork and communication is at fault when an inherently broken unit is placed in isolation is misguided.

[sneeking]

the only positive I can point to is that a reverse psychology has to some extent emerged, where most people ran away now they run toward.
unfortunately as is the topic not all can run and are victims by default.

[Geek Verve]

Livewyr, on 04 December 2013 - 05:04 AM, said:

I think the spawns are meant to encourage more lance based behavior. Your issue is one of the ways to encourage it.

Lances should be operating with lances, especially on Terra Therma, where walking around as a blob results in teams missing each other entirely.

Matches need to start taking more of Commanders/Lances flavor.. directing your lances to achieve objectives.. the spawns area step toward that.

This. My first impression, as well, was, "This is fracking stupid!" However, the more I thought about it and the more matches I played, I realized that I was no longer spending a third of the match just walking around on the map trying to find the enemy. This is a very, very good thing especially for the slower assault mechs. It also encourages lance on lance skirmishes, rather than fur ball chaos.

It's going to take a little getting used to (and admittedly, there are a couple of the new spawn points that truly *do* suck, like the ravine on Frozen City), but I think once we adapt, the battles will be more engaging. Plus, in 12-mans (I know, many of us don't play those) it provides additional tactical opportunities.

Give it some time, before you stomp around cursing PGI. At least *try* to adapt. To the OP, all you have to do is remind your lance mates of the fact that you are huge and slow in lance chat at the beginning of the match. Some people won't care, but my experience is that most of the time they will be open to rolling as a full lance.

Edited by Geek Verve, 04 December 2013 - 05:17 AM.

[sneeking]

simply put though, the old matching process is incompatible with the new spawning process.

for this to work the matching needs to assemble properly constructed lances.

[o0Marduk0o]

NamesAreStupid, on 04 December 2013 - 04:44 AM, said:

he probably falls behind and gets swarmed by the light/medium lance

And WHY he falls behind? Because his teammates give a **** about him and leave him alone. This is bad teamwork and results in a loss in most cases. What drives you (not you in personal) to run away from assault mechs in your lance to leave them alone to feed faster mechs?

The gameplay change must be shocking for a lot players but they have to learn to support each other and you need no voicecom to do that.

[Mcchuggernaut]

Ok, so I had another one of those **** games on Terra Therma where this spawn nonsense happened. Next time this configuration occurs I will take a screenshot and show what I mean. Basically, f you are the right-most lance in this particular setup and anything heavier than a medium you are screwed. You have to get over some mountains to the left or do a huge backtrack to catch the other two lances because they tend to merge and not ever want to backtrack and go back and around the mountains to meet you. Either you spend the whole game looping back to chase them and maybe arriving near the end of the game if you haven't been found, mobbed, and killed, or you go through the center crater and usually meet at least two merged enemy lances who have the high ground and are subsequently slaughtered. This time I explained on chat to my team what would happen, and that they would lose a lance if they didn't form up. They ignored me, charged off, lost our cut off lance, then got ***** by a team a third larger than ours. Honestly, it's so certain of a loss I will be sorely tempted to quit the match next time I see this particular cluster-**** of a setup on that map. And I have never quit a game before till I was dead or we won. That's how bad it is. But if it is certain to just end with a loss, no C-bills, experience, or FUN, what's the damn point?