110 replies to this topic

[Randalf Yorgen]

Saobh, on 06 December 2013 - 09:16 AM, said:

There is still the problem of ... what the hell is the advantage/point of a Lance right now ? None as there is no advantage to being in one rather then being in other configurations in your team (like going hunting with other lights, or stomping with 5 other heavies or staying back with one other LRM boat etc etc)

Its all very nice that Mechwarrior has this historical thing which is called a "Lance", but as long as there isn't any clear advantage of being/working in one, people will work out what actually works for them.

Thats why you get the blob mechanic in this game, because guess what when most of the team doesn't know each other and the communication tools are next to nill the sound startegy is to group up so that you profit from the safety/locking/firepower of the others (yes like herds)
Things on the ground would be totaly different if there was real commander powers as well as order markers diversity (other then just the 2 huge makers, like pointing enemy hard points, direction of assaults or needed scouting positions) as well as actual incentives for working with your squad/lance (simple stuff like xp/c-bill bonus when helping your lance or by default "see" the enemies the rest of your lance sees without locking or whatever other ways to make this interesting)

I come from the 'Project Reality' crowd (the BF2 mod) and in there you can see that when the "mindless PUGs" are given these types of tools they use them and tactical play (which you often wouldn't have imagined) appear because people crave depth (as mindless pew pew pew rinse and repeat only gets your high for so long before moving on to other games)

So as long as the sole purpose of Lances existing is because they are canon to Mechwarrior, they will be a hinderince to how people play rather then an asset for them to enjoy the game (and thus not mind putting money into it)

well, BF2 is still there, you can go play it any time you want instead of trying to make this BF2.5 (the big stompy robot expansion)

[Geek Verve]

Bilbo, on 06 December 2013 - 08:46 AM, said:

Why would the matchmaker think it is a good idea to place an Atlas (or any other large, slow mech) in the same lance as three light mechs and stick them in the position indicated by Mcchuggernaut. It happens far too often and pretty much leaves the heavy ***** in the wind on most occasions. Other than that I really like the new system.

In truth it *doesn't* happen that often. One Atlas and three lights in the same particular lance on that one particular map in the one spawn point that puts them at the greatest disadvantage? It's statistically unlikely to happen very often - certainly not nearly often enough to warrant the angst flowing forth from this thread.

Edited by Geek Verve, 06 December 2013 - 12:17 PM.

[Bilbo]

Geek Verve, on 06 December 2013 - 11:57 AM, said:

In truth it *doesn't* happen that often. One Atlas and three lights in the same particular lance on that one particular map in the one spawn point that puts them at the greatest disadvantage? It's statistically unlikely to happen very often - certainly not nearly often enough to warrant the angst flowing forth from this thread.

It happened to me a few times already. Maybe when the weight limits are implemented it won't be a problem anymore.

[Will9761]

Spawn points are not that bad, its all about planning where to move. But, if you take the wrong direction though, you and your team will basically become lambs to the slaughter.

Edited by Will9761, 06 December 2013 - 02:43 PM.

[RichAC]

I think the new spawn points promote working together with your lance, and capping a flag in conquest.

I usually play an atlas going 48 KPH and i have no problem regrouping with my team in assault mode when dropping solo.

[Saobh]

Randalf Yorgen, on 06 December 2013 - 11:26 AM, said:

well, BF2 is still there, you can go play it any time you want instead of trying to make this BF2.5 (the big stompy robot expansion)

Thank you for spelling that well thought out response.

But do you actually have any useful constructive critism to share ? or do you just like to ignore peoples arguments for an easy cheap 'quip'.

Edited by Saobh, 06 December 2013 - 05:04 PM.

[LQuinze]

Fut, on 06 December 2013 - 09:03 AM, said:

Because the game is now set-up to allow you to swap the Atlas out of that "light lance" before you drop on the map... ?

Unfortunately, as pointed out several times repeatedly, swapping a player's lance doesn't change their spawn position. The Atlas can be swapped out, but is still stuck way out there, and now isn't even in the same lance as the light guys who spawn with him.

Geek Verve, on 06 December 2013 - 11:57 AM, said:

In truth it *doesn't* happen that often. One Atlas and three lights in the same particular lance on that one particular map in the one spawn point that puts them at the greatest disadvantage? It's statistically unlikely to happen very often - certainly not nearly often enough to warrant the angst flowing forth from this thread.

The issue is - why fix a system that wasn't necessarily that broken in the first place with a system that sometimes breaks?
A lot of infrastructure that could smooth out the inconsistencies in this change have been requested for months - VOIP, the ability to change 'mechs before the match starts, drop zone selection, etc. I understand that this change is certainly much, much easier implemented than any of the above, and some of these features are supposedly coming with UI2.0.
Without the support in place though it certainly can rub people the wrong way (the repeated delays with UI2.0 probably don't help either), which is probably the main contributor in a lot of the tone you see in the criticisms. I don't see them as particularly unreasonable or ignorable criticisms.

Bilbo, on 06 December 2013 - 01:07 PM, said:

It happened to me a few times already. Maybe when the weight limits are implemented it won't be a problem anymore.

Wouldn't weight limits make Assault/Light lance mixes even more likely, to keep the team tonnage average consistent?

Edited by LQuinze, 07 December 2013 - 01:10 AM.

[colt 45p killer]

2 minutes op? Try 30 seconds on a lot of maps. Not to mention it often likes to put a lance of 4 right next to 8 opponents, with the other 8 people on the team about 800-1000m away.

If I'm to die in a thinking shooter its because I've been outplayed or made a mistake. Being sacrificed off the hop for some assinine system is ********.

[Bobdolemite]

colt 45p killer, on 07 December 2013 - 03:27 AM, said:

2 minutes op? Try 30 seconds on a lot of maps. Not to mention it often likes to put a lance of 4 right next to 8 opponents, with the other 8 people on the team about 800-1000m away.

If I'm to die in a thinking shooter its because I've been outplayed or made a mistake. Being sacrificed off the hop for some assinine system is ********.

Look at your own spawnpoints.... the enemies are very similar to yours. You wont be spawning 800m away from 8 other players, its more likely 4 (more if they have fast movers.)

Your not sacrificed "right off the hop" as you say, judging from your post count id say you need to learn the maps before making judgement calls on how effective spawn points are. (I reserve the right to be wrong, perhaps you have been here a year and only had 1 post)

I dont know where everyone is getting all these problems from, in the games I play they are INFINITELY more fun than the murderball non-tactics fish in a barrel shoot that was the previous meta.

I thought it would just take a few weeks for people to acclimate but the truth of the matter is that people actually liked the traffic jam and subsequent zerg exchange that was every game prior to the patch. Some people will never be happy with this, meanwhile though I hope PGI sees through all the QQ and go further to make the spawn points dynamic and random.

I feel like I was missing a part of this game with the old meta, lance "skirmish" combat is superior in every way and the occasional drop in a slow mech where you get left behind is a price im willing to pay.

Perhaps this change will motivate players to roll more balanced mechs, because you know you can get 60kph+ even in an Atlas right (the slowest mech in the game ATM) Speed is more important now than it ever was. and if you roll a slow mech be prepared for the chance that you will be too slow for the team and get left behind. Thats the trade off for rolling the most heavily armored / highest firepower mech in the game.

[Randalf Yorgen]

Saobh, on 06 December 2013 - 05:00 PM, said:

Thank you for spelling that well thought out response.

But do you actually have any useful constructive critism to share ? or do you just like to ignore peoples arguments for an easy cheap 'quip'.

Perhaps you should search some of my other responses and suggestions in other threads. Walls of text what make sense usually are so far beyond posters like yourself that no mater what it gets a negative. Things like Dynamic Spawn Points (this was 5 months ago) Things like Dropships or other defences at the base points (8 months ago) Adjustments to weapons such as ballistics becoming less accurate past a certain range. JUMP JET SHAKE was one of mine (yes let the hate begin). So please tell us what have you contributed? anything? MONEY even? nope, not seeing it on your avatar. Thanks for coming out, should I just call you MudHut and be done with it?

8 posts huh, what's your main accounts name? or are you really so new and so "innocent" as to not know. Please post that information before you post anything else so everyone knows who they are really talking to.

[Bront]

Am I the only one dissapointed that none of the spawn points were in the middle of the Caldera in TT?