172 replies to this topic

[Storyteller]

Hello everyone,

I'm really not one of these guys, who start complaining right after patchday. Normally I give every new feature and balancing tweak a solid chance, but this time it's different.

First of all, the air and artillery strikes were tough enough to take, because its been easy to control cap points with them on most of the maps. Especially the more open ones with a great line of sight and the small ones, were you could easily place one on key positions like on Forest Colony.

Now PGI has done something, which makes the situation even worse: when they had changed the spawning positions and moved the conquest cap points on some of the maps. Now its nearly impossible to take conquest cap points against an average intelligent opponent. Heavy and Assault Mechs get very fast to the cap points in the initial phase of the match.

The result is a massive brawl with a lot of air and artillery strikes. Why are there so many strikes? Because it pays off, when a lot of enemy mechs close in fast in a limited area.

I found my opinion on PUG matches so far, but I think, things will not be that different in 12 men premade matches. Especially when you can't choose your deployment. When my scout and heavy lances are scattered all over the places and ECM cover is far away, while another part of the group is very slow and far away, is this fair? Is it fair, when the game decides randomly, where my units are going to start?

No, it is not. Its not fair, like it isn't fair that bombs and artillery shells raining down randomly, hitting the left arm of the enemy Highlander while destroying the head of my Atlas-D-DC. So the random factor in MWO is getting bigger and bigger. And I am more the tactical kind of player. If PGI really wants to have pure team deathmatchs with less tactical influence, MWO is getting less interesting for me. And I play MWO for 16 months now almost every day. And I spent a lot of money on this game, because the core feature worked so far extremly well for me.

Now I am not quite sure anymore. I don't want to be the victim of a random decision the game makes for me. I want to be in control and try to compete with the opponent on an even level.

So please PGI, rethink the last changes you did to the game and do it fast. Otherwise many players like me could reconsider to play MWO anymore.

Sincerely,
Storyteller

[MadCat02]

I agree . Game feels crowded with all the damm airstrikes . Pay CB to win more games that is .

Edited by MadCat02, 04 December 2013 - 03:22 PM.

[Cad2cus]

Sooo true.

At least remove it from 12er premade.

[KharnZor]

Yea they do kinda need to tweak the points on Alpine imo.

[Troutmonkey]

New Spawn Points = Good
Artillery Head Shotting = Bad

[Sephlock]

Storyteller, on 04 December 2013 - 03:17 PM, said:

So please PGI, rethink the last changes you did to the game and do it fast. Otherwise many players like me could reconsider to play MWO anymore.

They don't re-think their sweeping changes, only minor ones (see, the LRM lollercoaster, although that has been trending downwards).

[Greyboots]

I don't mind the new spawn points etc at all and I sort of figured it was coming. The drop sites on Crimson Strait and cap points were obviously in "non standard" places and I thought it was pretty obvious that if it went well then other maps would follow suit. Especially with all the complaints about cap rushes. IMO this change is for the better and I'm enjoying it.

Arty strikes? I'm with the OP, the buff went too far and they are now an "I'm gunna blast you" item instead of a tactical one. Mind you, I thought that before they were a "here, look at this pretty smoke" item rather than a tactical weapon and a buff was needed, just not to this extent is all..

Edited by Greyboots, 04 December 2013 - 06:37 PM.

[akpavker]

i actually like both of these things that you are crying about...

new spawn points are awesome and if your to dumb to get out of the way of an air/arti strike its your own fault!

[Mystere]

Cad2cus, on 04 December 2013 - 03:35 PM, said:

Sooo true.

At least remove it from 12er premade.

What? A member of the so-called "elite" is so bothered by artillery strikes, he wants it removed from his "elite" games.

To the uninitiated, here is a bit of military history that I wrote in another thread:

Mystere, on 04 December 2013 - 02:05 PM, said:

... during ancient times, battles started with armies sending their skirmishers armed with javelins, bows, and slingshots to soften up the enemy. Sometime later, the Greeks then added ballistae and catapults to the mix. When the Romans came, they used tactics that involved throwing pila at the enemy just before engaging them directly.

Then in 53 BC, a Roman army of over 40,000 men met a much smaller Parthian force of 10,000 horsemen at Carrhae. There they fought an enemy that peppered them with arrows shot by 9,000 mounted archers while repeatedly being pummeled by a heavily armored cataphract cavalry of 1000. The Romans were slaughtered and the Battle of Carrhae was one of the costliest defeats in Roman history. The Parthians, on the other hand, suffered minimal casualties.

And so on and so forth until today ...

Edited by Mystere, 04 December 2013 - 09:13 PM.

[slimenator]

akpavker, on 04 December 2013 - 08:09 PM, said:

i actually like both of these things that you are crying about...

new spawn points are awesome and if your to dumb to get out of the way of an air/arti strike its your own fault!

You are not playing 12premade matches? Right?!

That would explain your Opinion.

Quote

I don't mind the new spawn points etc at all and I sort of figured it was coming. The drop sites on Crimson Strait and cap points were obviously in "non standard" places and I thought it was pretty obvious that if it went well then other maps would follow suit. Especially with all the complaints about cap rushes. IMO this change is for the better and I'm enjoying it.

On big Maps you can still compensate the spreaded Lances, on small Maps not...(<--12premade)

@Storyteller is see it like Cad2cus! In 12premade Matches this is a no go.

[Tech Priest]

You hit the point Storyteller. Awkward development is taking place.

[Storyteller]

Mystere, on 04 December 2013 - 09:06 PM, said:

What? A member of the so-called "elite" is so bothered by artillery strikes, he wants it removed from his "elite" games.

To the uninitiated, here is a bit of military history that I wrote in another thread:

I don't consider myself as elite, you can see this in our recruiting post, if you can read german:
http://mwomercs.com/...eit-rekrutiert/

We are Mechwarrior veterans for sure and my focus is on 12 men premade matches. But I also like to PUG, but I don't like random brawls with heavy artillery fire. This game is not supposed to be a military simulation. If I would like to play a game like this, I would switch to Armed Assault or something. In MWO chances for both sides should be even and I don't mind if they change the cap point position like on Caustica. It brings new strategies with it and I think now it's more fair for both sides. But what PGI did to Alpine Peaks and how they had split the spawn points on some of the maps ... Especially Alpine and Desert Torment its too spread out and too close to the capzones. It shifts the game to a more actionbased game with Mechs coming from all directions, and that's a random factor I dislike. This has nothing to do with being elite, but it's my personal taste.

And I do play the Battletech tabletop for over 20 years now and I always enjoyed the tactical approach not the arena type of play, where you are almost instant in the brawl. If you prefer it this way, you will be surely happy with the new changes. But I don't like it I know of a lot of people in our community, who think of the changes the same way I do. And those are the guys, who organize clans/guilds/chapters, leagues and tournaments. If the they start to quit because of those changes, MWO and PGI will loose more than they will gain through their changes.

I really would have welcomed this as an alternative game mode, like "Instant Action" or something. Like I said, on many days I just want to drop solo and have a good time firing my weapons. But the core sensation of MWO was allways the tactical approach, where pilots and company leaders hat to prove their skills. Now its more like WW1: Running around and maybe surviving or dying in the crossfire and artillery fire.

Just my two cents.
Storyteller

[paxmortis]

Storyteller, on 05 December 2013 - 12:30 AM, said:

I don't consider myself as elite, you can see this in our recruiting post, if you can read german:
http://mwomercs.com/...eit-rekrutiert/

He not need to learn german, we have an english recruiting thread also: http://mwomercs.com/...-line-regiment/

The Ari/Air Strikes are to hard i open all ready a thread in the feature suggestion: http://mwomercs.com/...need-increased/

Depend on the map the spawn points are bad but i hope they will fix it fast.

So you are right in both points.

Edited by paxmortis, 05 December 2013 - 01:03 AM.

[Karl Streiger]

Mystere, on 04 December 2013 - 09:06 PM, said:

To the uninitiated, here is a bit of military history that I wrote in another thread:

While your journey to military history is nice....it is not the point in Storytellers story.

The point is the rising numbers of RNG mechanics so many of you are opposed.

Its random were you start on the maps.
Its random were your other team mates are placed on the map.
If i shoot at a enemy and his ammunition explodes - its random
If i shoot with SRM at a enemy and hit registration doesn't work - its random


So basically - MWO is a kind of
"Because you don't know anything, and eveything is random - the difference between victory and defeat is random too)

I don't know about enemy support units (in form of Airstrike and Artillery strikes, its force composition, in PUGs i don't even know the exact force composition of my team, and of course i don't know how the lance look like i will start in. So having a Atlas in a scout lance is always a joy.=

For a game that should "simulate" military combat in the 31st Century ... the numbers of informations that are unknown is bad.

The only thing that is not random in MWO in its current state is where you click with your mouse at the picture of a enemy mech.

[Storyteller]

Thanks Karl, you got my point.

[John MatriX82]

Troutmonkey, on 04 December 2013 - 05:31 PM, said:

New Spawn Points = Good

The new spawn points are extremely unbalanced both in public and competitive 12mans. In maps like caustic, terra therma, tourmaline, there's always 1 lance for one team that is pretty far from the allied ones and near to two enemy ones.
This leads to exploiting them.

-D5 spawning lance on tourmaline
-B5 spawning lance on Caustic
-B6 spawning lance on Terra Therma

In all of these maps there's one lone lance that can be instantly charged by 1 comparable-weighted enemy lance with the support of a fast moving one, because they have a rather long walk to even try to make it for the allied group.

All of the other spawn choices like Alpine and other maps, where the team is so split up, lead to inbalance, furtherly exacerbated by the matchmaker that it's not working.
Now pugs have an easier way to wander around alone and you can start your match handicapped in less than 2 minutes.

Spawn points on Canyon Network do not allow several non-jj capable mechs to even reach the higher ground unless backpedaling back to base and losing time in the process, because you literally spawn in front of an un-climb-able wall, this renders movement archetypes even more annoying than they were before.

Troutmonkey, on 04 December 2013 - 05:31 PM, said:

Artillery Head Shotting = Bad

Agree, it would be so simple to lower DMG per shell @ 30 and increase from 10 to 12-14 shells dropping down. This would avoid headshots, while keeping overall damage near 400 as it is now.

[Wolfhound3025]

I absolutly agree with Storyteller. And Karl: I can't say it better.

I like to play tactical. Not bombing and pure firepower right from the start. Great for acton-fans. But for me it becomes more boring.

And i dont need arty- and airstrikes to to damage and kills. In my opinion PGI can remove this modules. I never used one and i dont want to have.

My point.

[Texas Merc]

Hey guys, guess what?

They have no clue what really goes on in matches.



Love,

teemerk

[18 Inches of Hard Steel]

I wouldnt dislike arty so much if it actually took a spot on the mech... like an artillery weapon... with a long range.... named tom....

[Karl Streiger]

18 Inches of Hard Steel, on 05 December 2013 - 02:26 AM, said:

I wouldnt dislike arty so much if it actually took a spot on the mech... like an artillery weapon... with a long range.... named tom....

Or the more compact arrow system....although only works for premades.

Because for a PUG game:
Hey guys...I have two Arrows on my Awesome - would anybody please be so kind to TAG enemy mechs?
....silcence
....more silence
Hey guys - have anybody TAG?
....silence
....Nope
....
player Arrow has disconnected

Thats the bane of surprise maps + surprise team mates + surprise enemy mechs + different other more or less documented systems