53 replies to this topic

[Appogee]

What are people putting in their 5Ms these days?

The 2D2 is my best performer, closely followed by the Phoenix variant.

But I never found a config I liked for the 5M.

[Amsro]

Appogee, on 08 December 2013 - 12:57 PM, said:

What are people putting in their 5Ms these days?

The 2D2 is my best performer, closely followed by the Phoenix variant.

But I never found a config I liked for the 5M.

Gauss + 2 Medium Lasers

[Bront]

Appogee, on 08 December 2013 - 12:57 PM, said:

What are people putting in their 5Ms these days?

The 2D2 is my best performer, closely followed by the Phoenix variant.

But I never found a config I liked for the 5M.

My 2H is my "poptart/Flex" build (PPC/LL, AC5/UAC5/UAC10, 3 streaks, layout depending on my mood), my 2D2 is my light hunter (XL360, BAP, MG, 2MLs, Streaks), and my 5M is my Shadow-hunch (AC20, 2 MLs, Ammo). They all play different, and I don't really need to play around with them much to have that different play style. The 2H is my best one for the most part.

[Victor Morson]

Appogee, on 08 December 2013 - 12:57 PM, said:

What are people putting in their 5Ms these days?

The 2D2 is my best performer, closely followed by the Phoenix variant.

But I never found a config I liked for the 5M.

2 AC/5, 1 PPC or an AC/20 with MedLas are the most popular configs. Also, AC/20 + ER PPC.

Edited by Victor Morson, 08 December 2013 - 03:11 PM.

[Appogee]

Thanks all. I like the looks of the PPC+AC20, with its short and long range options. I'll take my 5M out of mothballs and give it a run.

[Cerberias]

Brawler 2D2 with 3srm6/srm4/2medlas, std 275 3 jumpjets 6 tonnes srm ammo. Hunch is great for protecting flank, youll almost always lose the left side before you go down, adding buckets to survivability. Add to the survivability good mobility, and a high short range alpha and youve got a good brawler.

[Victor Morson]

You take Ghost Heat for that setup, Cerb. Drop the SRM4 to an SRM2 and you'll see a drastic cooling improvement.

[GI Journalist]

The Shadow Hawk has always been a good fit for new players. The varied load out gives players a feel for each weapon system, and the flexibility of the new chassis in MWO is a major plus. I'm glad to see the design alive and well.

I think it deserves to have a place as one of the trial designs.

[Cerberias]

You dont have to fire them all at once, and it's a very small heat penalty (like 1.2?) it's more so that when you're zombied you have 10 tubes left.

[Ngamok]

Bront, on 05 December 2013 - 12:36 PM, said:

Shadowhawk 5M is the best starter mech right now. For 8 million, you get a perfectly serviceable build almost immediately (DHS, Endo, XL, Reasonable weapons), an XL engine you can use in the other Shadowhawks (Sure, I prefer an XL300, and an XL280 is better than the 275, but we're talking about starting out fresh), and once you collect some more money, it has plenty of viable options for loadouts.

Hunchies still end up being cheaper, but the Shadowhawks are probably better mechs for new players (As fast or faster, more armor, no super-vulnerable hunch, JJs). You can do all kinds of fun things with a shadowhawk (I've got 3 builds where they don't feel like the same mech), and from there a new pilot can move towards another chasis that focuses more on the style they like to play.

Hunchies still aren't bad, but I don't think I'd ever recommend a Cent anymore.

Hunchies are good if you like lasers, especially the 4SP with 4 lasers int he arms and the P with lots of them. But in terms of versatility yea, the Shadowhawk is the way to go IMO.

I also run each SHD differently so I don't get bored playing them all the same. Yea, my 2D2 is pretty much the same as everyone else, 4x SSRM2, 2x ML, 1x LBX-10 or AC of preference. My 2H is 2x LRM10, 1x LRM5, 1x AC/2, 1x ERLL. My 5M is 2x LL, 2x MG, 2x SSRM2 and have seen only one other person running it this way.

I did it this way for variety otherwise getting all that XP on 3 variants to master would get boring.

Edited by Ngamok, 10 December 2013 - 08:32 AM.

[Victor Morson]

Ngamok, on 10 December 2013 - 08:30 AM, said:

I also run each SHD differently so I don't get bored playing them all the same. Yea, my 2D2 is pretty much the same as everyone else, 4x SSRM2, 2x ML, 1x LBX-10 or AC of preference. My 2H is 2x LRM10, 1x LRM5, 1x AC/2, 1x ERLL. My 5M is 2x LL, 2x MG, 2x SSRM2 and have seen only one other person running it this way.

Another reason I recommend Shadow Hawks: Even at high tiers there's several ways to play each variant. Tons of options.

[Alaskan Nobody]

Victor Morson, on 10 December 2013 - 02:30 PM, said:

Tons of options.

You heard it here first people!
Those options being: Victors ways or stop playing.

[Victor Morson]

Shar Wolf, on 10 December 2013 - 02:34 PM, said:

You heard it here first people!
Those options being: Victors ways or stop playing.

You assume incorrectly. You're more than welcome to ignore anything I've said, but I think the "top tier" information shouldn't be hidden from newbies, and thus present it to them from the get go.

If they prefer to ignore it, that's fine. The only reason I adamantly stress when bad guns/builds are being brought up is entirely to prevent confusing newbies with bad misinformation.

For example, recommending an Awesome to a newbie means they've just blown their entire cadet bonus on a trash 'mech. Nobody wins in that scenario.

Edited by Victor Morson, 10 December 2013 - 02:38 PM.

[Alaskan Nobody]

Victor Morson, on 10 December 2013 - 02:38 PM, said:

If they prefer to ignore it, that's fine.

You mean like you have chosen to ignore everyone's evidence that counters your godlike proof (IE because you say so?)

[Victor Morson]

Shar Wolf, on 10 December 2013 - 02:42 PM, said:

You mean like you have chosen to ignore everyone's evidence that counters your godlike proof (IE because you say so?)

So far every argument seems to be "Objective reasons this 'mech is good" followed by posts of "NUH-UH here's a screenshot!" with some lucky (or stacked via premade) point total as proof of anything.

If you think you can make a case for why you should buy the Awesome any other 70-90 ton 'mech, enlighten us? What does it do better than other 'mechs, and why should newbies purchase one?

Edited by Victor Morson, 10 December 2013 - 02:48 PM.

[Alaskan Nobody]

Victor Morson, on 10 December 2013 - 02:48 PM, said:

If you think you can make a case for why you should be the Awesome any other 70-90 ton 'mech, enlighten us? What does it do better than other 'mechs, and why should newbies purchase one?

Those arguments have been made - repeatedly, and shown, repeatedly, to you.

Your only counter was "it wasn't done in a 12v12 so it means NOTHING"
Which means about the same things as "EVERYONE should be playing 12v12 because pugging means nothing"
or
"New players should play by the 12v12 rules because everything else is worthless"

Ever play a game to.... yknow... play a game?
Have fun for the sake of fun?

Your posts point toward.....HE-LL no.

[Victor Morson]

Shar Wolf, on 10 December 2013 - 02:50 PM, said:

Those arguments have been made - repeatedly, and shown, repeatedly, to you.

So all you have is damage screenshots, which really do mean nothing?

Shar Wolf, on 10 December 2013 - 02:50 PM, said:

Your only counter was "it wasn't done in a 12v12 so it means NOTHING"
Which means about the same things as "EVERYONE should be playing 12v12 because pugging means nothing"
or
"New players should play by the 12v12 rules because everything else is worthless"

Ever play a game to.... yknow... play a game?
Have fun for the sake of fun?

Your posts point toward.....HE-LL no.

Long story short:

I am recommending top tier equipment to new players.
Shar would prefer I recommend bad equipment to new players to "help diversity."

New players: Make your call. Buy the best stuff, or bad bad stuff because somehow piloting inferior 'mechs is "more fun" I guess?

[Alaskan Nobody]

Victor Morson, on 10 December 2013 - 03:00 PM, said:

Long story short:

Long Story Short:
Hi my username is Victor Morson, and I am one of those 'Stop Having Fun' guys.

Edit: the final say in science is evidence: either it works or it doesn't
You have repeatedly shown evidence you are wrong (all those pics) and denied them for no better reason than because you do not like what they show.
Where is your evidence they are cherry picked?
Where is your evidence they count for nothing?

Edited by Shar Wolf, 10 December 2013 - 03:07 PM.

[Bront]

There are 4 Metas in MWO.

PUGging
4 Man teams
General 12 man
High end 12 man

They sorta flow into eachother a bit, but not entirely, and when you cross into one from the other, it's pretty drastic.

The high end 12 man meta works because you have 12 folks who know how to get the most out of their mechs, minimize their weaknesses, and work together as a team.

The general 12 man meta is a little different because you have some pickp players, players who aren't as coordinated, or simply aren't as good in their mechs as the top tier players.

The 4 man meta means you have 3 teammates you're talking with and can trust, but you're unsure of everyone else, so you have some room for coordinated role warfare, but you can't rely on others to fill in what you're missing.

THe 4 man flows into PUG builds where it's you vs the world effectively, where you can't count on anyone else (doesn't mean teamwork won't happen, just that you can't rely on it being as coordinated or as immediate). Mechs here need to either be more self-sufficient, or need to be hope they can get a roll they need to complement them filled.

Ultimately, some mechs work fine in all of these tiers, while some mechs are better only in particular circumstances.

In this case, the Shadowhawk is a nice mech in all of these metas because it's flexible, so you can tweak your build as you go. Beyond that, the flexability makes it viable for multiple play styles, meaning new players can experiment with different playstyles simply by retooling the mech rather than buying a new one.

I'm not saying the Shadowhawk is the best medium, simply that it's a great starter mech, and probably better than a Hunchie despite the extra costs they incur.

[Victor Morson]

Shar Wolf, on 10 December 2013 - 03:02 PM, said:

Long Story Short:
Hi my username is Victor Morson, and I am one of those 'Stop Having Fun' guys.

"An Awesome is inferior in every way to a Victor and Battlemaster. Skip this bad chassis for a better one, ideally the Victor."
=
"STOP HAVING FUN YOU GUYS"

???

Shar Wolf, on 10 December 2013 - 03:02 PM, said:

Edit: the final say in science is evidence: either it works or it doesn't
You have repeatedly shown evidence you are wrong (all those pics) and denied them for no better reason than because you do not like what they show.
Where is your evidence they are cherry picked?
Where is your evidence they count for nothing?

1- Screenshots mean nothing for damage in pugs because all it means is that someone stood still and let you pound them forever. Even the worst weapons can rack up huge numbers if you allow this, resulting in those hilarious 1k damage MG Spider screenshots.

2 - My evidence that most of those screenshots were cherry picking (and unimpressive to boot) is that in the vast majority, people were with their premade 4 mans. And yeah, you're gonna have high numbers when you do that. Period.

3 - To end this derail and for more information, go to http://mwomercs.com/...of-of-anything/.

Bront, on 10 December 2013 - 03:11 PM, said:

Ultimately, some mechs work fine in all of these tiers, while some mechs are better only in particular circumstances.

In this case, the Shadowhawk is a nice mech in all of these metas because it's flexible, so you can tweak your build as you go. Beyond that, the flexability makes it viable for multiple play styles, meaning new players can experiment with different playstyles simply by retooling the mech rather than buying a new one.

I'm not saying the Shadowhawk is the best medium, simply that it's a great starter mech, and probably better than a Hunchie despite the extra costs they incur.

Yep, well said.

The real "core" mechs are: Jenner, Shadow Hawk, Cataphract, Victor, Highlander. The niche but useful 'mechs including the Jagermech, Blackjack, etc. But really with any of those core 'mechs, you are guaranteed to have a great 'mech at any meta.