342 replies to this topic

[Mcgral18]

RG Notch, on 14 December 2013 - 10:09 AM, said:

You keep saying this like it means anything. Where is your proof that the MWO dev team shut down MWLL? You don't have it/ You can keep yapping at me all you want, it continues to prove you are just full of hot air. Either provide proof or shut it. Once again thanks for proving me correct. You have no proof what so ever that the MWO team shut down your precious mod, that no one played.

That people are still playing*

It has the same population as 12 mans in MWO...what does that mean?

Also, try using some arguments, no opinions and calling people false without data. It's rather childish.

[Ghogiel]

RG Notch, on 14 December 2013 - 10:09 AM, said:

You keep saying this like it means anything. Where is your proof that the MWO dev team shut down MWLL? You don't have it/ You can keep yapping at me all you want, it continues to prove you are just full of hot air. Either provide proof or shut it. Once again thanks for proving me correct. You have no proof what so ever that the MWO team shut down your precious mod, that no one played.

Reread thread.

Note where I explain what actually happened between Russ and Crim/Kami over ending MWLL.

Randalf Yorgen, on 14 December 2013 - 10:17 AM, said:

Did it make you hard when he did that? must have

I actually burst a blood vessel

Edited by Ghogiel, 14 December 2013 - 10:24 AM.

[RG Notch]

Ghogiel, on 14 December 2013 - 10:22 AM, said:

Reread thread.

Note where I explain what actually happened between Russ and Crim/Kami over ending MWLL.



I actually burst a blood vessel

Read back over what I said. I want proof. You can say whatever you want. That is not proof. I know that may be hard for you to grasp. Typing something on the internet doesn't make it true. So either provide proof, i.e. something besides you just saying it or else quit it. Each time you post about this without proof you continue to prove you have none.

[KHETTI]

I thought it was common knowledge that PGI had approached the devs of MWLL and got them to stop development, they did a similar thing with Mektek, i think they even suggested that Mektek and their forums get absorbed by PGI, naturally they politely declined.
I had no idea Ghogiel, that you were a MWLL dev, the maps you guys made are amazing!.

Edited by KHETTI, 14 December 2013 - 10:51 AM.

[RG Notch]

KHETTI, on 14 December 2013 - 10:46 AM, said:

I thought it was common knowledge that PGI had approached the devs of MWLL and got them to stop development, they did a similar thing with Mektek, i think they even suggested that Mektek and their forums get absorbed by PGI, naturally they politely declined.
I had no idea Ghogiel, that you were a MWLL dev, the maps you guys made were amazing!.

No it's a common conspiracy theory. There were posts from both teams saying this didn't happen. Of course conspiracy theories thrive on rumor and stuff people know that they can't prove. That's the beauty of conspiracy theory, you don't need proof, you just need to say it happened.

[KHETTI]

Sorry Notch, i've been a member of Mekteks forums for a long long time, and they DID make a post confirming they were approached by PGI, FACT.
Its entirely up to you what you want to believe, but you are wrong.

[Ghogiel]

RG Notch, on 14 December 2013 - 10:42 AM, said:

Read back over what I said. I want proof. You can say whatever you want. That is not proof. I know that may be hard for you to grasp. Typing something on the internet doesn't make it true. So either provide proof, i.e. something besides you just saying it or else quit it. Each time you post about this without proof you continue to prove you have none.

I backed up all the claims I made in this thread.

KHETTI, on 14 December 2013 - 10:46 AM, said:

I thought it was common knowledge that PGI had approached the devs of MWLL and got them to stop development, they did a similar thing with Mektek, i think they even suggested that Mektek and their forums get absorbed by PGI, naturally they politely declined.
I had no idea Ghogiel, that you were a MWLL dev, the maps you guys made are amazing!.

This is the first official press release on the v7 and MWLL ceasing development. It was promptly removed from the website front page>

Quote

To clarify how this situation came to be I’ll go into a bit of detail about what’s been happening behind the scenes to clear up any misconceptions. As Developers and Staff of Wandering Samurai Studios, we are, as of this point, no longer allowed to create future content based on the MechWarrior IP due to legal obligations on behalf of various rights holders. These rights holders own the Legally Binding, Non-Transferrable, Non-Commercial License Agreement with Microsoft and as of 2013 will no longer officially support the MechWarrior: Living Legends division of Wandering Samurai Studios. This is not a choice of the development team, this is a choice of the ownership and we have no control over the decision-making process. While we may not agree with the choice that must be made we respect their decision to make it, as without them, this project would have never come to fruition.

This is another bit>
http://i.imgur.com/FQyaX.png


Russ is also admittedly on record for approaching MWLL founders and initiating unsolicited negotiations to stop development.

Edited by Ghogiel, 14 December 2013 - 11:34 AM.

[Sybreed]

Ghogiel, on 14 December 2013 - 11:12 AM, said:

I backed up all the claims I made in this thread.


This is the first official press release on the v7 and MWLL ceasing development. It was promptly removed from the website front page>



This is another bit>
http://i.imgur.com/FQyaX.png


Russ is also admittedly on record for approaching MWLL founders and initiating unsolicited negotiations to stop development.

I don't really understand why PGI felt threatened by a free mod... /sigh

[Ghogiel]

Sybreed, on 14 December 2013 - 11:38 AM, said:

I don't really understand why PGI felt threatened by a free mod... /sigh

The reasoning we were given was they "didn't want to split the player base". Which sounded kinda like BS to me.

I don't think saying they were threatened is the right way to think about it, The impression I got is more like bean counters thinking about how much money they invested in the IP and didn't like the idea other people were using the IP without paying them, rather than any of the actual dev team wanting or even knowing anything about it.
The only person who definitely knew anything about it was Russ.

Edit: It is true there was never a C&D, it was all handled off the books so to speak, and the MWLL founders were compliant with all of the requests made of them. eg there was a list of features we were prohibited from adding, but were allowed a good few months to finish features currently well into development before we had to close the doors. It was amical enough on the surface, but make no mistake MWLL would still be getting patches if Russ didn't 'ask' us to stop development

Edited by Ghogiel, 14 December 2013 - 11:59 AM.

[Karl Carver]

Mech The Dane, on 06 December 2013 - 10:05 AM, said:

I was wondering if anyone else has noticed less people playing MWO?

I am not sure if it is just my limited perspective, or if it is a real thing. It APPEARS that I am seeing both fewer new faces and fewer old faces. That when I run 12 mans I run into less and less teams doing the same.

Are other groups seeing this as well? Is it just an expected November -> December Holiday slowdown, maybe people finally giving up on PGI? Or something else?

Is it just me? Or it this happening?

Getting back to the OP.....

Im not sure, the matching format does'nt let me see how many people are actually playing, though the points about familiar names is valid i suppose.
But having played all the Online MW games, I think the current matching model works better than any of it's predecessors.

Anytime i want instant action MWO delivers.

Previous titles including MWLL often meant watching a server list waiting for players to turn up, towards the end of the MW4 Mercenary days, this became a sad and painful exercise.

With MWO i can always get a game, whenever i like.

Player numbers will always flux back and forth, as some have said it can be seasonal, a dynamic i also saw in Mercs.

But for as long as i can get a full or almost full drop whenever i want , i don't care.

The new clan mechs look fantastic (hats off to FD once again) and im sure they will bring many more organised players (clanners) to the game.

As for all this MWO killed MWLL stuff, as others have said we will never know what really happened, time to stop flogging a dead horse and move on.

Edited by Karl Carver, 14 December 2013 - 01:49 PM.

[Gouty]

Karl Carver, on 14 December 2013 - 01:47 PM, said:

Previous titles including MWLL often meant watching a server list waiting for players to turn up, towards the end of the MW4 Mercenary days, this became a sad and painful exercise.

With MWO i can always get a game, whenever i like.

This has nothing to do with the quality of the game, the biggest factor in this is the size of the marketing budget. But I do agree with you, players are content, no one wants to play a multiplayer game by themselves.

[Spooky]

KHETTI, on 14 December 2013 - 10:46 AM, said:

I thought it was common knowledge that PGI had approached the devs of MWLL and got them to stop development.

No, according to PGI that never happened.

RG Notch, on 14 December 2013 - 06:59 AM, said:

NO ONE PLAYED MWLL.

Well I played it, I am still playing it, and I am playing it right now even. That should be enough .

[Ghogiel]

Spooky, on 14 December 2013 - 04:19 PM, said:

No, according to PGI that never happened.

Actually Russ is on record for approaching MWLL founders. Though he probably wouldn't put it like that. While it may not be exactly clear how much pressure was there on the MWLL founders to pull the plug but we do know this>

The quotes I remember are "At this GDC in casual unscripted conversation I asked him "why are we splitting the community at this point?" We both realized that the MWLL community was small and it really wasn't competing with MWO but still each time a feature was added to MWLL that was in MWO it felt as though we were doubling up effort to restore this great brand."

The thing to note in particular is that he said> "each time a feature was added to MWLL that was in MWO."

What that was about was a list of features he requested MWLL not to development. This included mechlab and a list of mechs such as the hunchback etc. So actually did ask MWLL not to develop.

Edited by Ghogiel, 14 December 2013 - 08:17 PM.

[Karl Carver]

Ghogiel, on 14 December 2013 - 08:15 PM, said:

we were doubling up effort to restore this great brand."

Pure speculation on my part, but i often wondered if there might be something in this aspect.
That senior MWLL devs were offered paying jobs to jump ship, with part of that deal being that they pull the plug on their old project.........

What i do know is there is an aspect to this saga that has been kept under wraps, perhaps thats it.

But i stand by my original statement, for better or worse MWO gives me instant action whenever i want it, thats an improvement over all the previous MW titles MWLL included.

I'm only ever a minute or so away from hot metal action to quote Duncan Fischer.

That alone makes me glad MWO was the one to survive and prosper.

I get it that milage will vary

Edited by Karl Carver, 14 December 2013 - 09:40 PM.

[Ghogiel]

Karl Carver, on 14 December 2013 - 09:39 PM, said:

Pure speculation on my part, but i often wondered if there might be something in this aspect.
That senior MWLL devs were offered paying jobs to jump ship, with part of that deal being that they pull the plug on their old project.........

What i do know is there is an aspect to this saga that has been kept under wraps, perhaps thats it.

But i stand by my original statement, for better or worse MWO gives me instant action whenever i want it, thats an improvement over all the previous MW titles MWLL included.

I'm only ever a minute or so away from hot metal action to quote Duncan Fischer.

That alone makes me glad MWO was the one to survive and prosper.

I get it that milage will vary

Speculation yeah.

At the time the MWLL founders and a couple other MWLL devs were/are employees at Crytek. Kami has since moved onto RSI and works on Star Citizen. Whether or not any of them were offered jobs at PGI is up to them to tell.

Edited by Ghogiel, 14 December 2013 - 10:11 PM.

[Karl Carver]

Ghogiel, on 14 December 2013 - 10:11 PM, said:

Speculation yeah.

At the time the MWLL founders and a couple other MWLL devs were/are employees at Crytek. Kami has since moved onto RSI and works on Star Citizen. Whether or not any of them were offered jobs at PGI is up to them to tell.

I dont think they would if they were.
But there is more to this than meets the eye

Quote

1. It's much more complicated than that.
2. It simply won't happen.
3. Some communications must remain privy between the team leadership and the PGI representatives.




I know it's not the "answer" you want, but it is all that can be given.

http://forum.mechliv...c,18949.30.html

We will never know for sure, but it seems a reasonable scenario.

But again i'm just speculating based on what was said at the time by those who do know

Its a pity both titles couldnt have lived long and prospered, but it wasnt to be, for reasons we may never know and can only speculate on.
But of the two, i am glad it was MWO that survived. Mercenary of me i know. But It's got a Mechlab, it's got a large ready to drop 24/7 playerbase, Alex's artwork is fantastic.
Its got some really clever features like modules etc, and its got momentum.
I wouldn't blame the senior Dev's for jumping ship if thats what happened.
It makes sense to me at least

Edited by Karl Carver, 14 December 2013 - 10:40 PM.

[Karl Carver]

And this Defender of the empire guy hints at the same possibility

Quote

we respect the decisions made by our leadership who want to move on to greater professional endeavors. We've had an amazing run and we're all proud of our work. All we've ever wanted is for Mechwarrior to be a monetary success so we can see continued development in this fantastic franchise

Quote

I didn't want to put anyone in the lime-light, potentially damage the professional careers of my friends at Crytek, nor inflict any monetary loss for PGI. Russ and his team are working hard to bring you an amazing game. If anything, this is a form of passing the torch. It's time to move on to greater professional endeavors

http://mwomercs.com/...50#entry1754550


So again purely as speculation, its not impossible that some of the senior staff made the choice to get paid to do what they love ie make a great MW game.

Could you blame them ?, it's a dream come true. Get paid doing something you love.

Edited by Karl Carver, 14 December 2013 - 10:55 PM.

[Ghogiel]

Karl Carver, on 14 December 2013 - 10:54 PM, said:

And this Defender of the empire guy hints at the same possibility







http://mwomercs.com/...50#entry1754550


So again purely as speculation, its not impossible that some of the senior staff made the choice to get paid to do what they love ie make a great MW game.

Could you blame them ?, it's a dream come true. Get paid doing something you love.

*sigh*

Many of the senior staff were already working in the industry. They didn't close MWLL to work for PGI!

[Karl Carver]

Ghogiel, on 15 December 2013 - 12:01 AM, said:

*sigh*

Many of the senior staff were already working in the industry. They didn't close MWLL to work for PGI!

We may never know the facts, again i'm just speculating but its an idea thats been trotted out before

Quote

If you liked MWLL most likely there are some developers that are going to help with MWO rather than lose a job.

http://mwomercs.com/...160__p__1754550

Its not unreasonable to wonder if thats what Mr Leer was refering to when he posted

Quote

1. It's much more complicated than that.
2. It simply won't happen.
3. Some communications must remain privy between the team leadership and the PGI representatives.




I know it's not the "answer" you want, but it is all that can be given.

Clearly its a little more complicated than we are privy to, to me it makes sense

Remember Russ said

Quote

I expressed that we were not trying to shut anyone down but asked him how we might meld the two communities better and even look to possibly hire on any great talent what was in that project. ( Hey MWLL guys send in those resumes )

So again, Its not unreasonable to suspect that the reason MWLL shut down was because some of the senior Devs took him up on the offer, and that part of the deal they did was to pull the plug.

And again despite all the obvious clues, we will never know

[Spooky]

Ghogiel, on 14 December 2013 - 08:15 PM, said:

Actually Russ is on record for approaching MWLL founders. Though he probably wouldn't put it like that. While it may not be exactly clear how much pressure was there on the MWLL founders to pull the plug but we do know this>

Yes I know, I only meant that it is simply not known to the public, whether or not there was actually any pressure, or from which party that pressure came from. It's feasible that it was actually CryTek who made that business decision.

Ghogiel, on 14 December 2013 - 08:15 PM, said:

What that was about was a list of features he requested MWLL not to develop. This included mechlab and a list of mechs such as the hunchback etc. So actually did ask MWLL not to develop.

Ah, so that is not actually just a rumor anymore now? Interesting to know.

Karl Carver, on 15 December 2013 - 12:22 AM, said:

So again, Its not unreasonable to suspect that the reason MWLL shut down was because some of the senior Devs took him up on the offer, and that part of the deal they did was to pull the plug.

The founders of Wandering Samurai, the ones ultimately responsible for pulling the plug on MW:LL, work for CryTek, not PGI. They were working for CryTek before MW:O was even announced. Flying Debris, who did the Artwork on the Mechs for MW:O worked for MW:LL before. But that was also long before any of this happened.

Edited by Spooky, 15 December 2013 - 03:12 AM.