62 replies to this topic

[Satan n stuff]

OneEyed Jack, on 07 December 2013 - 05:35 AM, said:

It was in TT, so it got included. Some people like to play with it for S&G's, but I see no reason for people to constantly worry about it not being a competitive weapon. Some things really can be "just for flavor."

Personally, I tried the blinding my opponent while I chewed him up at short range approach. The problem is, it tend to block your own view of the target, making it rather tough to pinpoint your attacks.

And the enemy can just aim for the target box instead, so it doesn't really help if they know what they're doing.

[DeadlyFred]

OneEyed Jack, on 07 December 2013 - 05:35 AM, said:

It was in TT, so it got included. Some people like to play with it for S&G's, but I see no reason for people to constantly worry about it not being a competitive weapon. Some things really can be "just for flavor."

Personally, I tried the blinding my opponent while I chewed him up at short range approach. The problem is, it tend to block your own view of the target, making it rather tough to pinpoint your attacks.

Something doesn't have to be "top tier" to be viable but why include something which is functionally useless, especially when it doesn't actually have to be that way? Face it, a flamethrower in MW would never really NOT be a "S&G" sort of weapon but it could be tweaked so as to actually be effective at... anything.

[OneEyed Jack]

Because that line of thought doesn't stop at "it does something." If we allow that Flamers "need" to be useful, it won't stop until it's actually good. Considering that it's a heat-inducing weapon, once it's good, people will load up 9 of them and it'll be broken.

[Mizore]

MustrumRidcully, on 07 December 2013 - 03:00 AM, said:

If they make the Flamer better at heating up mechs, I forsee only problems. Heating up another mech and shutting it down leads to stunlocking. Ask any PvP experienced player in MMOs about their opinion on stunlocks.

Sorry, but have you read the patchnotes?

There's a 90% heat cap, so flamers will never ever shut down an enemy mech on it's own, so stunlocks aren't possible!

There's absolutely no reason, why it could be a bad idea to buff flamers... at least for me.


Flamers are totally weak and it has always been like this... it's the same thing like NARC, when there's a buff in an upcoming patch, then there's also a big nerf so that the weapon/component still stays useless.
And sometimes it's then even more useless than before.

[FupDup]

OneEyed Jack, on 07 December 2013 - 07:16 AM, said:

Because that line of thought doesn't stop at "it does something." If we allow that Flamers "need" to be useful, it won't stop until it's actually good. Considering that it's a heat-inducing weapon, once it's good, people will load up 9 of them and it'll be broken.

Cons:

• Max range of 90 meters
  
• Very little damage output
  
• Very high heat for the shooter, which increases exponentially the longer you keep firing the Flamer (yes, it really does this, PGI is keeping this mechanic in the dark)--Even a mech with 27 DHS can quickly overheat itself when firing a single Flamer
  
• Requires constant facing of the foe
  
• What little damage it has, is spread out heavily due to its stream nature
  
• Can't heat up the foe past 90% heat

Pros:

• Adds some heat to the target (if we buffed it that is, because right now they only add 0.2 per second, which is effectively the same as negating one true DHS)
  
• Can mess with an opponent's vision

A weapon with numerous downsides and only two upsides, and is very easily counted by using a lot of DHS and/or using low-heat weapons...hardly broken.

Edited by FupDup, 07 December 2013 - 07:45 AM.

[Blurry]

In my games only ran into it once and gave an alpha strike in return - they didnt like that. One of the few times I have ever actually done a full alpha. Kinda no fun to play run up dump run back - rinse/repeat.

But I guess this goes back to the meta of non brawling. All those weapons are really UP or dont function properly. It wont matter until they decide to change the meta.
It should be addressed because why have a useless weapon? I mean try it as a blind and they will still alpha - dont need precision aim for it and considering how close you need to be to actually effect - useless.

Only thing to do is petition for a meta change. Since they happen ever 9-12 months just hope they get it right.

[Kaspirikay]

Okay, so Flamers are a weird thing. They're designed to overheat mechs till shutdown, meaning, if they worked as they should, you'd see people stunlocking mechs with flamers. Thats, to me, counter productive to progressive gameplay for Mechwarrior.

It would devolve to setting atleast 2-3 mechs aside as Crowd Control mechs, that is, mechs fit primarily with Flamers. This would make Assaults cry unadulterated tears of frustration. Because they're slow, they can't run from CC mechs, Assault mechs would stay shutdown for the duration of the fight.

However, I read that the endgame for Flamers is that they would raise the enemy mech's heat to a high enough level, it would force them to check their heat/shot much more in a fight. This option is much better.

[Alistair Winter]

Of course they have a place. I use flamers to clear away trees and other flora to get a line of sight, to start fires that provide some cover via smoke screens for my team, to destroy the enemy base rapidly instead of capturing it, to melt away snow and ice in the way of my mech, and sometimes to destroy the enemy indirectly by igniting big fuel tanks, oil refineries or weapon storages.

In my mind.

[Thunder Lips Express]

i would love it if they could set forests on fire to cause heat on mechs who are in the trees

[Screech]

To me the reason flamers are not good is because everything they are good at killing does not exist is MWO. There are plenty of reasons to want to have a flame thrower during a war. None of these reasons would be to fight big stompy robots.

[LawDawg]

We ran a lance of 4 Jenner's with 4 Flammer's and 2 MLasers. Was fun as hell for trolling a single mech. Overall, Flammer's are ineffective at this point, as they should be for the most part like Machine Gun's against big ole robots and such, imho.

They add a lil heat to a mech but why run it if you can can strap on a MLas and get some damage?


<EDIT> ^^ What Screech Said.

Edited by LawDog, 07 December 2013 - 09:18 AM.

[Sable Dove]

Really, Flamers might be marginally useful if they would just reduce the heat capacity to 25 (30 with double basics).

It's pretty hard for heat-adding weapons to be useful when mechs have more than double the heat capacity they're supposed to.

[Lord of All]

We do not judge based on sexual orientation.

[Taemien]

Flamers definitely need a buff. But they do not need the ability to keep mechs shut down. Even in the TT they have a limit to how much they can heat up a mech.

They're meant to keep the opponent from firing their weapons as often. Of course flaming a gauss boat won't do much. But against other sorts of weapons they should be effective. At least that's the idea. And I'd like to see flamers do this.

[Commissar Aku]

two words, spam and fun, other than that flamers are worthless

[Reitrix]

I run a Jaeger with 4 Flamers and 4 MGs.

If the target doesn't shoot me, I cant overheat him.

But that poor Blackjack on Terra Therma didnt know what hit him.
Nor did that Atlas on Forest Colony.

I can Flame someone into Overheat AND cause Engine Damage if they shoot at me while im Flaming them.
I run it as a 'Bodyguard' 'mech, I follow the Assaults and light up whoever gets in range. It demolishes Lights amd Mediums. Heavies can take me down with good accuracy/heavy AC's, but Laser Boats are murdered.

[Corvus Antaka]

flamers also do some decent damage

[Troutmonkey]

Fun fact, 2 Chain Fired flamers generate no heat, they just slow down your cooling

[Koniving]

Vidarok, on 06 December 2013 - 12:09 PM, said:

What do you think, is there a place for this weapon? Do you care for it?

The weapon could use a complete design overhaul. If the game favored burst and MG-styled weapons we'd be set. However the game features highly focused instant damage weapons. As such, flamers are virtually worthless in its current form.

One idea comes from the description of the flamer itself. It shoots a stream of 'liquid plasma' that coats the enemy mech and catches fire.

Think about this for a minute. Let's say this is a weapon with a cooldown of x number of seconds. Now spray liquid gunk on the enemy mech. Your weapon stops firing to 'recycle' like many other weapons such as lasers. The enemy is still on fire. Eventually the fire will go out. Meanwhile you can return and drop more gunk on them soon.

[Kjudoon]

death by barbeque lances and mechs are fun at times but they are a joke build or trick play. a 7 flamer BLR or 9 flamer Hunchie is hillarious but face it, you are not a serious threat and any less than 4 flamers is not a threat.