625 replies to this topic

[Gladewolf]

Rubidiy, on 23 December 2013 - 01:24 PM, said:

1. You're suggesting to balance Clans and IS by the quantity of mechs from each side. Sounds good. Say, 9 vs 15. Why not?
Because where the hell are you gonna find 15 IS mechs against 9 Clan mechs for every single match???
Hordes of people, who like Clans/who don't have guts to fight in a weaker mechs are going to wait for ages while matchmaker is trying to find those 15 players, who are brave enough to be a part of a pug team, which does not have a clue about "Stick together and focus fire" in 90%. Sounds cool.

2. If you ask someone, no one wants to aknowledge, that they care about kill death ratio. But even though it's just a statistic, these IS fighters will have much less occasions to get this satisfaction of killing a mech, while a good player in "unnerfed" heavy/assault clanmech is going to wreck half of IS team every round.

I have been considering the "few will want to play Inner Sphere" argument. I think an appropriate safety valve would be to have 10 v 10 Clan battles as well, that way if there really are not many that wish to play Inner Sphere, clan players aren't sitting around doing nothing...after all in lore just about everything they do results in a fight of some sort...what are we having for dinner? BEGIN THE TRIAL OF SUSTENANCE! .......Hopefully our space map and community warfare system will be in place prior to the clan launch, so we actually have something to fight over. Community Warfare will provide more reasons than we currently have to engage in meaningful contests.....p.s. private drop lobbies for the win!

[Krubarax]

I have been thinking about this since this forum was first started, and the Clan-Tech-Suggestions/discussions started.
Sorry if this was mentioned before. I did not read through the full thread.

But the way I remember it, in MechWarrior 4, the Clan Tech was not nerfed at all. I am not 100%n sure about this, but I think the Clantech was pretty canon in MW4, right?

I played MW4 A LOT and many of those games was Clan vs Inner Sphere. With strictly true-tech.
and it was even numbers.
Maybe it was a more mature community back then, but there and then, you had ALL options served to you.
You could just pick and choose any mech and weapons you wanted.

And there was no whining.

The fact is.
The advantage of Clantech is much more obvious in fiction, where characters adhere to rules of engagement and so on.
And also more obviuos in TT, where randomness and chance make any advantage much greater.

In a real time shooter.
It all comes down to terrain.

What good is a 300+ range advantage, if you block LOS with hills, trees, buildings etc?

The exeption is of course the LRMs, which are MUCH better in Clan version.

All in all, I think the "nerfs" are too great.
People choose to fight the Clans because they want to.

[Void Angel]

Gremlich Johns, on 23 December 2013 - 02:00 PM, said:

If you want to continue to freely post in the MW:O forums, you need to drop that abusive and frankly offensive tone and be more mature about how you articulate your displeasure with someone else's writing or opinion. You detract from your veracity by persisting in your "idiom".

If you want to find offensive attitudes, look no further than your own mirror - and your assumption that any mention of learning disabilities must be an insult. Certain forms of Autism Spectrum Disorder (notably Asperger's Syndrome) can cause a person to be very high-functioning, yet have trouble articulating and interpreting writing. While my frustration at my opponent's "abusive and frankly offensive tone," is undeniable, I was dead serious about asking if he had a legitimate excuse for his behavior.

To be blunt, I find your rather heavy-handed criticism to be misplaced and certainly one-sided. You seem to have made a knee-jerk response to a single post -viewed through the lens of your own sensitivities - and neglected to consider any of the context.

[Gladewolf]

Just ignore Void, I don't think he understands(or cares) that his tone is condescending, and allowing him to derail the thread only serves his purpose in any case. Now, we have several things that can make this work just fine, and allow everyone to get what they want out of this 1. People that do want to face the clans in IS tech for the invasion(which we've been waiting for for some time) 2. a safety valve system so that clan players aren't left sitting in long queues 3. A workable plan for asymmetric combat ...though numbers vary, and deserve to be tested. I also would love to see the devs get together some wringers and actually push in the invasion front about 2 weeks before rolling the clan mechs out to the general public...I think it would be a nice, authentic touch(Maybe a good time for another challenge medallion?). Of course....we'll need Community Warfare to be in place by then....for it to make sense, hopefully it has a higher priority......

[SaltBeef]

I think it will absolutely stink if Clan Mechs are equal to Inner sphere Battlemechs. There was a lesson to be leaned from both sides in the Battletech universe. Inner sphere lesson: stop blowing each other to bits and destroying each other's tech. Clans Lesson: Retake the inner sphere as Saviors not Tyrants in Kerensky's vision.

[SaltBeef]

In Real life WW2 it played out. The Germans had better tanks with better armor slopes and better weapons, brainwashed troops like the Clan. the only way the Allies won was by working together with numerical superiority. Battletech was the same premise.

Edited by SaltBeef, 01 January 2014 - 12:24 PM.

[DI3T3R]

Gladewolf, on 23 December 2013 - 03:30 PM, said:

I have been considering the "few will want to play Inner Sphere" argument. I think an appropriate safety valve would be to have 10 v 10 Clan battles as well, that way if there really are not many that wish to play Inner Sphere, clan players aren't sitting around doing nothing...

Something similar is planned for CW:
* If you join a house-unit, you will still be essentially fighting PUG-matches, but you will be preferably sorted with members of your unit.
* Each fight will be over possession of patch on a random contested planet, no matter where you are or where your unit theoretically is. Strategic decisions of house-units are made by moderators. (Only merc-units do really move freely from warzone to warzone and fight for specific goals of their own choosing.)

So, let's say you are Jade Falcon. You will be dropped into a random match fighting either Lyrans or Wolves.

Likewise let's say you are a Lyran. You will be dropped into a random match fighting either the Jade Falcons, the Wolves, the Combine or the LFW.

[CyclonerM]

DI3T3R, on 01 January 2014 - 12:54 PM, said:

* If you join a house-unit, you will still be essentially fighting PUG-matches, but you will be preferably sorted with members of your unit.
* Each fight will be over possession of patch on a random contested planet, no matter where you are or where your unit theoretically is. Strategic decisions of house-units are made by moderators. (Only merc-units do really move freely from warzone to warzone and fight for specific goals of their own choosing.)

Are you totally sure of this? Honestly i always tried to tell myself this may not be the final design.. They may still give House/Clan players the possibility to join a group.. To give a meaning to what they are doing,..

[Joseph Mallan]

CyclonerM, on 01 January 2014 - 01:48 PM, said:

Are you totally sure of this? Honestly i always tried to tell myself this may not be the final design.. They may still give House/Clan players the possibility to join a group.. To give a meaning to what they are doing,..

Such as joining Canon Units like the 10th Lyran Guards or Davion Heavy Guards? There is a plan for that, using loyalty points and such if I remember correctly.

[CyclonerM]

Joseph Mallan, on 02 January 2014 - 06:40 AM, said:

Such as joining Canon Units like the 10th Lyran Guards or Davion Heavy Guards? There is a plan for that, using loyalty points and such if I remember correctly.

Exactly. The problem is this: as far as everyone says, House and Clan faction are essentially PUGs who randomly fight to help conquer planets for their faction. Being so passive, i suppose players will be able to "join" such units and maybe have their unique camo/decals but literally no freedom in choosing targets or ranks.

Think of how many "1st Sword of Light" or "10th Lyran Guards" (or "4th Wolf Guards") units have been created in MWO by the players. They may not all be able to join them (unless such canon units in CW have unlimited slots ) so if they want to have their own group running a faction unit.. They cannot. And there is really low chance of Clan units' players playing as mercs to have their own unit..

EDIT: and hey what are lone wolves for then?

Edited by CyclonerM, 02 January 2014 - 11:42 AM.

[DI3T3R]

CyclonerM, on 02 January 2014 - 11:27 AM, said:

EDIT: and hey what are lone wolves for then?

Lone Wolves: They will be used to fill up empty spots when there just aren't enough players of a particular faction around.

Faction-Members: PUG-matches, preferably sorted with members of own units. Moderators decide on which front the unit is operating, but gamers decide which planet (within this front) this particular fight is gonna be about. (Permission to join various units depends on character-level.)

Merc-units: Do what you want, if you can afford it and if you can stand the intrigue and drama and blaming and flame-wars.

[CyclonerM]

DI3T3R, on 02 January 2014 - 11:56 AM, said:

Lone Wolves: They will be used to fill up empty spots when there just aren't enough players of a particular faction around.

Faction-Members: PUG-matches, preferably sorted with members of own units. Moderators decide on which front the unit is operating, but gamers decide which planet (within this front) this particular fight is gonna be about. (Permission to join various units depends on character-level.)

Merc-units: Do what you want, if you can afford it and if you can stand the intrigue and drama and blaming and flame-wars.

Thanks.. I am still perplexed however..

[Tannhauser Gate]

IIRC,

The initial plan was to have House players battle for planets located centrally to their domains. Mercs were to battle (on contract with the Houses) against other Merc Corps on the borders of house domains. Lonewolves were to fill the ranks when needed (less information is known about the roles for LWs). The capitol worlds, and worlds central to the lore, were to be managed by Comstar (the devs) and were not intended to be fought over by players. CW planetary battles were all to take place in premade, map-chosen matches. Pug drops were not meant to be part of CW, only for letting players grind XP and CB.

At the launch party, Brian Ekman indicated that contracts will take on whole range of options beyond just being made by House factions. Mentioned at some point was the possibility of different types of contracts, multiple engagements, loyalty rewards for Mercs under contract, and things such as Bounties on the heads of faction members or even individual players.

The current plan Im sure has changed as the devs delve into the facets of CW. Im fairly sure though that Pug matches will continue to not be part of the planetary battles and remain tier 1 random drops for fun and grinding points.

Edited by LakeDaemon, 02 January 2014 - 02:39 PM.

[Gremlich Johns]

"Why nerf the Clans at all in MW:O"?

Because that will make it easier to attract Xbox One players when the game is ported over

;-)

[Joseph Mallan]

CyclonerM, on 02 January 2014 - 11:27 AM, said:

Exactly. The problem is this: as far as everyone says, House and Clan faction are essentially PUGs who randomly fight to help conquer planets for their faction. Being so passive, i suppose players will be able to "join" such units and maybe have their unique camo/decals but literally no freedom in choosing targets or ranks.

Think of how many "1st Sword of Light" or "10th Lyran Guards" (or "4th Wolf Guards") units have been created in MWO by the players. They may not all be able to join them (unless such canon units in CW have unlimited slots ) so if they want to have their own group running a faction unit.. They cannot. And there is really low chance of Clan units' players playing as mercs to have their own unit..

EDIT: and hey what are lone wolves for then?

Being in a faction SHOULD mean that you can only drop on planets contested in your Realm. As a Lyran I should only be able to fight against Free Worlds, Kurita and Clans... Maybe Liao as we are FedCom right now. So only Lyran PUGs should be dropping together against Kurita PUGs and so on.

Lone Wolves are there to fill in the gaps of a drop that may not have enough Lyrans, DCMS, FWL etc to fill a drop.

Also a Lone Wolf that does not have Clan Mechs should not be able to drop WITH clanners UNLESS they own and have equipped a Omni.

As far as those folks who started "canon" units. My take is they should have known better. Now that we know that the DEVs want to make us earn a seat in Canon units, they should be willing to grind their way in, just as I am. It's a new game, we don't have a means to Upload what we achieved in the past (like Dragon Age to Dragon Age 2) So we have to be willing to start over and earn our accolades here, now.

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 03 January 2014 - 05:24 AM.

[CyclonerM]

Joseph Mallan, on 03 January 2014 - 05:18 AM, said:

Being in a faction SHOULD mean that you can only drop on planets contested in your Realm. As a Lyran I should only be able to fight against Free Worlds, Kurita and Clans... Maybe Liao as we are FedCom right now. So only Lyran PUGs should be dropping together against Kurita PUGs and so on.

Lone Wolves are there to fill in the gaps of a drop that may not have enough Lyrans, DCMS, FWL etc to fill a drop.

Also a Lone Wolf that does not have Clan Mechs should not be able to drop WITH clanners UNLESS they own and have equipped a Omni.

As far as those folks who started "canon" units. My take is they should have known better. Now that we know that the DEVs want to make us earn a seat in Canon units, they should be willing to grind their way in, just as I am. It's a new game, we don't have a means to Upload what we achieved in the past (like Dragon Age to Dragon Age 2) So we have to be willing to start over and earn our accolades here, now.

Sure, a faction player MUST be limited. A Marik can only drop against Liao, and Steiner (maybe also FedSuns because FedCom?).

Remember, "who created a Canon unit" includes all the various Clans in MWO. We should have known better? Neg. It is not my case but here many, like you after all, have played for decades and many have been sticking with an unit or faction for a very long time. This is especially true for Clan units.

Why should they not have the possibility to recreate their group in-game in MWO? Last time i checked this is the heir to the franchise heritage. Every MW in the past saw many player units created and living for years and years. MW is a perfect game in multiplayer for player units. Why should MWO be different?

In MW4 the single player campaign was focused on being mercs but in multy tons of Clans and House Units fought for years.

I might not get your point because here the problem is that in CW only the Mercs are going to have the good stuff and being priviliged.

Should every House or Clan unit become a merc unit then? They cannot even do that, because canon names are banned. I never liked this.. But the whole idea of CW seems to be "NO LORE HERE" , since Mercs are the best guys and they cannot be "Wolf's Dragoons Zeta Battalion".

Do you really want to see a MechWarrior game in which the only player units allowed are the classic "gaming clans" with no history at all? I do not. I am being honest here: when i drop in CW, i want to drop with the 4th Wolf Guards (both in-game and as my player unit), with my unique Cluster camo and decals, against, say, the Free Rasalhague Republic [color=#000000]1st Drakøns with their unique skin fighting for a planet in the FRR during Operation Revival. A Smoke Jaguar player will play instead may play in a special "Battle for Luthien" event in which they will fight against the various DCMS and Wolf's Dragoons faction units (some Kell Hound player units may be invited! ) This is what i want. This is the Community Warfare i want. [/color]

[Joseph Mallan]

CyclonerM, on 03 January 2014 - 05:56 AM, said:

Sure, a faction player MUST be limited. A Marik can only drop against Liao, and Steiner (maybe also FedSuns because FedCom?).

Remember, "who created a Canon unit" includes all the various Clans in MWO. We should have known better? Neg. It is not my case but here many, like you after all, have played for decades and many have been sticking with an unit or faction for a very long time. This is especially true for Clan units.

Why should they not have the possibility to recreate their group in-game in MWO? Last time i checked this is the heir to the franchise heritage. Every MW in the past saw many player units created and living for years and years. MW is a perfect game in multiplayer for player units. Why should MWO be different?

In MW4 the single player campaign was focused on being mercs but in multy tons of Clans and House Units fought for years.

I might not get your point because here the problem is that in CW only the Mercs are going to have the good stuff and being priviliged.

Should every House or Clan unit become a merc unit then? They cannot even do that, because canon names are banned. I never liked this.. But the whole idea of CW seems to be "NO LORE HERE" , since Mercs are the best guys and they cannot be "Wolf's Dragoons Zeta Battalion".

Do you really want to see a MechWarrior game in which the only player units allowed are the classic "gaming clans" with no history at all? I do not. I am being honest here: when i drop in CW, i want to drop with the 4th Wolf Guards (both in-game and as my player unit), with my unique Cluster camo and decals, against, say, the Free Rasalhague Republic [color=#000000]1st Drakøns with their unique skin fighting for a planet in the FRR during Operation Revival. A Smoke Jaguar player will play instead may play in a special "Battle for Luthien" event in which they will fight against the various DCMS and Wolf's Dragoons faction units (some Kell Hound player units may be invited! ) This is what i want. This is the Community Warfare i want. [/color]

Because this is not the game they created their unit in. I am a member of Murphy's Law. We are a Merc unit that is not Canon to the Universe. If I want to be in The Dragoon's I have to meet the requirements PGI has set. Now if someone wants to have a Black Widow Company out side of the Dragoons then They need to ASK PGI if that is OK. If it is cool, if not... try to get in te official Black Widow Company.

I wouldn't think the Mercs are Privileged at all here. As a Lyran I will have discounts on Lyran Mechs, I will have first choice on the juicy missions (the 10th Lyran was at all the best fights during this timeline) .

I want to see the same thing you do... I am willing to earn my place in the 10th LG. Till then I am a Lawman, I wear Murphy's colors. Should I earn a place in the Guard I will happily wear The Blue and White (with silver piping).

Personally I think the DEVs need to start recruiting for Canon units now. To have rank structures in place so at launch we can have Canon units to fight along side of as we move into the game. Offer the top players command billets, and folks like me(with time in house service) an enlistment.

If a Kell Hound of Old player has put in the time already they should be offered a place in the Canon unit. But they would have to remember that the DEVs are running this show and they would be "THE" Kells.

It's not Like I should be allowed to be the Victor Steiner-Davion commanding the 10th LG now should it?

[Hawk819]

Thorn Hallis, on 09 December 2013 - 05:29 AM, said:

Because not many players will willingly enter a match knowing that their 'Mech and weapons are inferior by a wide margin?

What he said.

[CyclonerM]

Joseph Mallan, on 03 January 2014 - 06:18 AM, said:

Because this is not the game they created their unit in. I am a member of Murphy's Law. We are a Merc unit that is not Canon to the Universe. If I want to be in The Dragoon's I have to meet the requirements PGI has set. Now if someone wants to have a Black Widow Company out side of the Dragoons then They need to ASK PGI if that is OK. If it is cool, if not... try to get in te official Black Widow Company.

I wouldn't think the Mercs are Privileged at all here. As a Lyran I will have discounts on Lyran Mechs, I will have first choice on the juicy missions (the 10th Lyran was at all the best fights during this timeline) .

I want to see the same thing you do... I am willing to earn my place in the 10th LG. Till then I am a Lawman, I wear Murphy's colors. Should I earn a place in the Guard I will happily wear The Blue and White (with silver piping).

Personally I think the DEVs need to start recruiting for Canon units now. To have rank structures in place so at launch we can have Canon units to fight along side of as we move into the game. Offer the top players command billets, and folks like me(with time in house service) an enlistment.

If a Kell Hound of Old player has put in the time already they should be offered a place in the Canon unit. But they would have to remember that the DEVs are running this show and they would be "THE" Kells.

It's not Like I should be allowed to be the Victor Steiner-Davion commanding the 10th LG now should it?

Now maybe i did not explain better. It is not that i am not willing to grind my way to my unit, being it Wolf's Dragoons or a Faction unit which will require an amount of LPs.

What i mean is: we, as Clan Wolf unit, have the 4th Wolf Guards and 328th Assault clusters. We obviouvsly want to play togheter in the same in-game unit. Sure, we may have to earn a certain amount of LPs to join it but House and Clan units should require a "preorder" or something like that. I mean, we ask PGI to reserve us those two Clusters. When we earn enough loyalty with the Clan Wolf faction we are able to join it.

"Unclaimed" loyal units will be free to join by a set number of players (i am pretty sure the FedCom has enough RCTs for everyone).

The Mercs may, indeed, be priviliged: they can create their own group of players playing togheter (essentially what i want for faction units as well), have company-owned assets (Dropships), different types of contract, custom ranks for players..

I understand many of these features are exclusive for mercs but i do not want them to get the cool stuff while Loyalists are just pugs with a House/Clan little banner close to their name.

[Joseph Mallan]

I agree with this. If you have played as these units before, you should be considered, but being Clan, You should have to earn it thought combat. Clan was are not those of legacy. Command is TAKEN from the predecessor. [I read the unit profiles on Wiki... Ummm] So if you want the 4th Wolf Guard (A prestigious unit IIRC) and the 328th Assault Cluster has even a deeper history. To be a part of those units should take a huge undertaking as they would only be populated by the best warriors the Wolves have! Earning membership would indeed need to be a challenge CyclonerM. I can't see anyone getting in just because they form a unofficial unit 12 years ago. Sorry but that is how I feel. You may as well be asking to be part of the Wolf Clan Golden Keshik.

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 03 January 2014 - 07:16 AM.