41 replies to this topic

[mytilus edulis]

Is there ever a valid reason to use LPLs?

[SerratedBlaze]

I keep looking but have seen few places for it. The weight increase is dramatic considering that the range is 2/3 for 1.6/9 more damage. Ease of use is improved by making the duration 6/10 but again the heat already counters that (+1.5/7). I would take a large pulse when 2medium is what I want (damage and range wise) and the weight is available. Preferably as the only energy weapon so that the engine doubles will be sufficient.

[Lyoto Machida]

Because PGI.

[FupDup]

They were probably afraid of the horrible, utterly terrible and destructive LL + LPL cheese builds.

[Deathlike]

Lyoto Machida, on 09 December 2013 - 05:39 PM, said:

Because Paul.

Fixed for you.

[MustrumRidcully]

Assuming that Ghost Heat is not just a bad idea in general (I know, that's unlikely)
Grouping ER LL und LL might actually make sense, since they have identical rate of fire and beam duration ,so group-firing them together works and makes sense, just like group-firing PPCs with ER PPCs make sense.
But LPL has a different ROF and beam duration, so it's less useful to mix it with LL and ER LL.

And of course, giving them ghost heat in the first place where they aren't pinpoint precise weapons but damgae over time weapnos and giving them the same max value as PPCs is questionable.

One could call it a "bad idea pile up."

That said, I don't think it's the major thing that keeps the LPL down.

Edited by MustrumRidcully, 10 December 2013 - 01:50 AM.

[Alistair Winter]

Don't worry about it, guys. The extreme amount of extra heat caused by the LPL is just a temporary fix to bring the LPL back in proportion to the MPL and SPL, in terms of heat / damage. They will be adjusting this soon.

At least, that's what they said when they made the change.

Seven months ago.

In June.

Sorry, did that sound sarcastic?

[Karl Streiger]

Alistair Winter, on 10 December 2013 - 02:01 AM, said:

Don't worry about it, guys. The extreme amount of extra heat caused by the LPL is just a temporary fix to bring the LPL back in proportion to the MPL and SPL, in terms of heat / damage. They will be adjusting this soon.

At least, that's what they said when they made the change.

Seven months ago.

In June.

Sorry, did that sound sarcastic?

Oh oh oh i fear PGI uses the same excel calculations as i do.....given the range; the damage; the heat and the rate of fire (including burn duration) the ratio between Large and Medium Standard Laser is the same as for Large Pulse Laser and Medium Pulse Laser....
ok based on the idea that you are hit a target with 60% burn duration of a standard laser and at least 100% of the pulse laser the ratio between weapon types is even too.
If you are not able to hit a target with 100% of your pulse laser beam duration L2P - if you are able to deliver more as 65% of your beam duration with a Standard Laser into a target - you ELO is to high, you are on an island

(Did that sound sarcastic too?)

[John MatriX82]

Pulse lasers have never been a viable choice in this game.. taking away the crippled range, the shorter duration is a good thing but the weight and the heat renders them less viable than normal lasers. Why do I have to bother to bring 4 MPLs when I need to dedicate 8 tons for them without being able to equip enough DHSs when 4 MLs give me greater range, less heat, more cooling and probably allow me to equip larger engines or some other backup weapons?

PGI should render pulse laser worthier of their weight and heat or screw TT values and reduce their weight, so that you can save some to add some DHSs to keep them cooler.

6 tons for the LPL, 1.5 for the MPL and a weird 0.75 tons for SPL. Suddendly even keeping crippled ranges and heat they have now, they'd become more appealing as brawling tools.

[Nryrony]

FupDup, on 09 December 2013 - 07:04 PM, said:

They were probably afraid of the horrible, utterly terrible and destructive LL + LPL cheese builds.

That would be effective on 0 mechs even without ghost heat yay.

[Conan Librarian]

mytilus edulis, on 09 December 2013 - 04:12 PM, said:

Is there ever a valid reason to use LPLs?

It has better sound effect that regular laser. Other than that, no.

[Greyboots]

So, let's say you group large lasers differently. Firing 2 large lasers and one ER Large laser suddenly becomes cooler than firing 3 large lasers.

Which doesn't make sense. You gain added range on one weapon while the same damage of 3 large lasers at 450m or less for a cooler overall performance. Same weight, same crits.

This sort of defies basic physics so doesn't "make sense" and is therefore immersion breaking. From a balance perspective? It doesn't make a lot of sense IMO.

mytilus edulis, on 09 December 2013 - 04:12 PM, said:

Is there ever a valid reason to use LPLs?

Yes.

The Large Pulse Laser is NOT a large laser. It's the smallest PPC.

PPC: 7 tons, 3 Criticals, 2.5 DPS, 3.75 HPS, min range 90m, optimal range 540m.
LPL: 7 tons, 3 criticals, 2.75 DPS, 2.21 HPS, no min range, 300m optimal range.

Reduced range, slightly higher DPS, greatly reduced heat. Baby PPC with no min range pretty much.

It's superior to the PPC or ERPPC at ranges under 300m in all respects except pinpoint damage and can be combined with other PPCs without accruing ghost heat. Considered in this way it's actually not a bad option.

However, it's not worth the extra when stacked up against other Large Lasers. It's 2 tons heavier, it takes an extra critical, it's hotter over time due to the shorter firing cycle (although it can be fired at the same rate manually for higher DPS than the other large lasers), the range is poor and it accrues ghost heat with the others. It's just too much to pay for the reduced beam duration and higher damage.

It only stacks up poorly against the other Large Lasers.

So 2 PPCs and 2 large pulse lasers will give you good energy-only burst damage from 90-300m that only takes 4 hardpoints and doesn't accrue Ghost Heat. While it will give you less damage at longer ranges it won't leave you defenseless at ranges under 90m either.

Disclaimer: Honestly? I think this is broken as it's far too "neiche". It's simply 1 ton too heavy and should possibly be in it's own ghost heat group as well.

Edited by Greyboots, 10 December 2013 - 04:36 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

Pretty silly that the cap was set below the number of Weapons found in Canon! 3 PPCs is a canon build Pooched cause the DEVs knee jerked. Hunchback IIC FUBARred due to ghost heat. *shrug* Maybe the tournament crowd isn't as competitive as they think they are.

[Scratx]

Joseph Mallan, on 10 December 2013 - 05:27 AM, said:

Pretty silly that the cap was set below the number of Weapons found in Canon! 3 PPCs is a canon build Pooched cause the DEVs knee jerked. Hunchback IIC FUBARred due to ghost heat. *shrug* Maybe the tournament crowd isn't as competitive as they think they are.

Not really. Just don't fire them all at the same time. Remember, Ghost Heat only kicks in if you're not giving half a second to reset between shots.

[Joseph Mallan]

Scratx, on 10 December 2013 - 07:19 AM, said:

Not really. Just don't fire them all at the same time. Remember, Ghost Heat only kicks in if you're not giving half a second to reset between shots.

Just remember I have been Alpha striking Multiple redundant systems for 30 years, An Awesome has worked perfectly fine for all that time until PGI came and jacked up the system. An Awesome should be fine firing a 3/3/2 cycle with no chance of shut down. Its a time honored and proven fighting style.

[Karl Streiger]

Joseph Mallan, on 10 December 2013 - 07:30 AM, said:

Just remember I have been Alpha striking Multiple redundant systems for 30 years, An Awesome has worked perfectly fine for all that time until PGI came and jacked up the system. An Awesome should be fine firing a 3/3/2 cycle with no chance of shut down. Its a time honored and proven fighting style.

Oh come on you can do exact the same even now in MWO.
Fire all 3 PPCs at once -> you are at 42 heat - wait for 10sec
- you are at 14 heat -
the next Alpha will bring you up to 56 (but you shouldn't overheat - if you don't move)
After 7-8 seconds you can fire the 2 PPCs.

You see this sytem works perfectly 3-3-2

Edited by Karl Streiger, 10 December 2013 - 07:47 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

Karl Streiger, on 10 December 2013 - 07:46 AM, said:

Oh come on you can do exact the same even now in MWO.
Fire all 3 PPCs at once -> you are at 42 heat - wait for 10sec
- you are at 14 heat -
the next Alpha will bring you up to 56 (but you shouldn't overheat - if you don't move)
After 7-8 seconds you can fire the 2 PPCs.

You see this sytem works perfectly 3-3-2

I see what you did here.

You Forget I also played a few of the MW titles and even played Dire Wolves in MW2 and the Stone Rhino in MW3 with 2 ERPPC an 3 Gauss just as I do on TT

[Mercules]

Joseph Mallan, on 10 December 2013 - 08:02 AM, said:

I see what you did here.

You Forget I also played a few of the MW titles and even played Dire Wolves in MW2 and the Stone Rhino in MW3 with 2 ERPPC an 3 Gauss just as I do on TT

Well, as Karl pointed out, it is not only the weird heat system BUT Rate of Fire that is messing up the Awesome and other mechs.

[MeiSooHaityu]

I'll use 1 LPLaser when grouped with MLasers (especially the Raven 3L with 2MLasers and 1LPLaser).

They have similar range and seem to compliment each other well. Not a glowing recommendation to use LPLasers, but it is a circumstance where I use LPLasers.

[Deathlike]

Alistair Winter, on 10 December 2013 - 02:01 AM, said:

Don't worry about it, guys. The extreme amount of extra heat caused by the LPL is just a temporary fix to bring the LPL back in proportion to the MPL and SPL, in terms of heat / damage. They will be adjusting this soon.

Soon™.

Quote

At least, that's what they said when they made the change.

Seven months ago.

In June.

Sorry, did that sound sarcastic?

I can already tell Paul doesn't actually use them. It would not be viable on his personal 19 SHS K2 anyways.

I keep trying to find excuses to just use one, only to not use them at all.