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[ The Lrm Commandments ]


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#1 Victor Morson

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Posted 09 December 2013 - 09:20 PM

Thou shalt carry at least 25 missiles per salvo.
Unlike many weapon systems, there is a direct counter to LRMs - the Anti-Missile System (AMS). This will decimate a number of missiles in each flight, and all allied AMS will cover teammates. As such, you need to make sure you are firing at least 25 to 30 missiles per salvo or the vast majority of your firepower will be shot down before it reaches the target.

Thou shalt always inspect thy missile port numbers.
On top of hardpoints and weapon sizes as limiting factors, next we have to talk about Missile Ports. This can get a bit confusing. Basically, for every launcher port in a location, one missile can be fired out of it. Some launchers will dynamically reconfigure when this happens, such as on the Catapult, while others are fixed. Often these fixed ports are NARC or Streak ports that allow for a single missile at a time and do not update; this can be found on the Trebuchet.

You should always make sure that at a minimum, all of your missiles can clear the tubes without impacting the weapons recycle rate. i.e. an LRM/20 in a single port launcher will take longer to fire than to recycle!

Thou shalt always carry a Beagle Active Probe (BAP)
Aside from it's advantages in the targeting department, BAP is notable at countering the LRM's worst enemy - the ECM. Up close, without BAP, a single ECM 'mech will interrupt your targeting - rendering your weapons and any in flight missiles suddenly useless. This alone, in addition to it's targeting properties, make this a must have item for every LRM boat. No exceptions.

Thou shalt always carry Targeting Acquisition Gear (TAG)
The other counter to ECM on the battlefield, aside from PPCs (which cause a brief window a target can be locked) is TAG. For only a single ton, TAG is the single most important piece of gear for an LRM 'mech. It can:
  • Interrupt ECM inside of 750m
  • Speed locking times dramatically
  • Make a lock hold for longer, if they get to cover
  • Tightens missile grouping, allowing for more on-target damage
  • Strengthens missile tracking, allowing for accurate hits against lights & mediums!
Since there is little downside other than a visual signature for firing it, you can place it in a group with your missile weapons in addition to all other weapon groups, and not even have to worry about micromanaging it. It's superior in every single way to the NARC (which takes ammunition, is four times as heavy, and does not stack with Artemis) and a must have piece of gear without exception.


Thou shalt always carry Artemis!
Another must have piece of gear for a properly fit LRM 'mech is Artemis. Artemis will greatly tighten the missile spread, stacking with TAG, when you have line of sight on a target. This makes the difference between damage that is spread out and mostly useless, and that is clustered up and devastating. Any LRM equipped 'mech without Artemis, which also speeds locking time, is at a grave disadvantage to dealing damage.

Thou shalt never defy Ghost Heat
The much hated mechanic Ghost Heat is in particular confusing with LRMs. In summary, you will begin taking unnecessary heat if you exceeed two "primary" launchers, sizes 10-20. LRM/5s do not count towards this limit. This means that the following math is accurate at the time of this writing:

2x LRM20 2x LRM5 (50 Missiles) = No Ghost Heat
1x LRM20 3x LRM10 (50 Missiles) = 4x LRM/20 Ghost Heat
3x LRM15 1x LRM5 (50 Missiles) = 3x LRM/15 Ghost Heat, none from LRM/5

It's just gets more confusing but that's the gist. You want any design to have TWO main launchers, with additional LRM5s, and no more than that. You also do not want to chain fire or group-fire delay LRMs as missiles-per-salvo is needed.. see commandment #1.

Thou shalt take an Adv. Target Decay Module
This module is absolutely key of you enjoy LRMs at all, and is more must have gear. Adding several seconds of a maintained lock once the signal is broken, this allows you to sink many, many shots taken on victims that have gotten to cover than you ever would otherwise. Saves literally tons of missed ammunition.

Thou shalt always stay over 88kph
Without exception, missiles should be put onto 'mechs that can move quickly; the closer to 100 the better. LRMs need to stay within 180m (minimum range) and 750m (where TAG functions) to do the most damage, and in order to do that, they need to be fast enough to keep their distance and range shots!

A fast moving LRM boat can flee to allies against a close range attacker, can keep minimum distance on a heavy attempting to close with it (firing all the while), and also dodge a large number of incoming LRMs, allowing them to bring down far, far heavier LRM boats. With the Ghost Heat limits, the optimal number of launchers can be placed on a medium like a Centurion or Shadow Hawk without issue!

Thou shalt always try to maintain line of sight!
While indirect fire is what new players most often complain about and feels like an easy way to get damage, it should be a last resort when you are crippled or when you have some spare ammunition and are on your way to better shots.

To do the REAL damage, you need to be maintaining direct line of sight with a TAG lock. That's how your missiles go from an annoying scatter shot rain, to a brutal focused ball of death. Positively always be jockeying for these kinds of positions, furhtering the importance of moving quickly!

Thou shalt always control their fire!
When using different sized launchers, you need to make some calls on how to operate them. Effectively:
  • Against AMS - Wait until your largest longer recycles before firing a new salvo each time.
  • Against non-AMS - Continually fire as fast as your launchers can recycle until you become too warm, then switch to group fire.
Again, avoid chain fire against AMS targets, and in general a big group is better than chained shots; I make an exception when using mismatched launchers since this can allow you to gain a lot of extra DPS against a non-AMS target.


----

If anyone has questions about LRMs, feel free to post them!

Edited by Victor Morson, 09 December 2013 - 09:21 PM.


#2 Aym

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Posted 09 December 2013 - 09:34 PM

Thou shall get thine own locks in pugs

This could be an amendment to the TAG requirement...

#3 OneEyed Jack

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Posted 09 December 2013 - 09:39 PM

While I don't agree with everything, a very good guide for beginners. And the few disagreements I have are subject to the shooter already having a good grasp of LRMs.

Thou shalt not fire at less than 394 cubits, nor greater than 2187.

Thou shall press 'R' and await the circle of red before firing.

Edited by OneEyed Jack, 09 December 2013 - 09:43 PM.


#4 Shar Wolf

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Posted 09 December 2013 - 09:44 PM

And there you have it people - Vic has declared himself either God or Moses.
As for my opinion on the guide:

View PostVictor Morson, on 09 December 2013 - 09:20 PM, said:

Thou shalt carry at least 25 missiles per salvo.

Unless you know your teammates are going to be bringing some as well.
(LRM5 x 12 people in a team = more than your limit, and doesn't weight much or limit builds on mechs 50 tons and over much)

View PostVictor Morson, on 09 December 2013 - 09:20 PM, said:


Thou shalt always inspect thy missile port numbers.

Which completely invalidates the Stalker as a missile boat for anything other than SRM (and on a mech that unmaneuverable?)

View PostVictor Morson, on 09 December 2013 - 09:20 PM, said:

Thou shalt always carry a Beagle Active Probe (BAP)

Unless you know you have friend(s) (not all puggers drop solo my friend) who you know are bringing it for you, and even then it is usually a good idea (extra sensor range and countering ECM are almost always useful)

View PostVictor Morson, on 09 December 2013 - 09:20 PM, said:

Thou shalt always carry Targeting Acquisition Gear (TAG)

Frequently a good idea, but not always possible (IE one catapult can carry an impressive number of missiles, but has no energy slot to put a tag in)

View PostVictor Morson, on 09 December 2013 - 09:20 PM, said:

Thou shalt always carry Artemis!

Pretty near worthless on an LRM5 (exception - the lock on time) (yes vic, I am well aware you consider that weapon already worthless) and debatably so on an LRM10 - definitly a must have on the LRM20 though.
Fun note: 2 ALRM5 weight the same as 1 ALRM10

View PostVictor Morson, on 09 December 2013 - 09:20 PM, said:

Thou shalt never defy Ghost Heat
The much hated mechanic Ghost Heat is in particular confusing with LRMs. In summary, you will begin taking unnecessary heat if you exceeed two "primary" launchers, sizes 10-20. LRM/5s do not count towards this limit. This means that the following math is accurate at the time of this writing:

2x LRM20 2x LRM5 (50 Missiles) = No Ghost Heat
1x LRM20 3x LRM10 (50 Missiles) = 4x LRM/20 Ghost Heat
3x LRM15 1x LRM5 (50 Missiles) = 3x LRM/15 Ghost Heat, none from LRM/5


2 LRM20 2LRM5 give you one missile spread where 1/4 to 1/2 your missiles are spreading all over, and one where all of them are hitting CT - meaning you are very nearly firing the LRM20s just to let your 5s hit.
Similar issues with 3 LRM15

View PostVictor Morson, on 09 December 2013 - 09:20 PM, said:

Thou shalt take an Adv. Target Decay Module

This one I have no arguments with, other than most 'new players' are not going to have ANY modules, let alone this one. :)

View PostVictor Morson, on 09 December 2013 - 09:20 PM, said:

Thou shalt always stay over 88kph

The bigger your mech (necessary for large LRM boating) the less this one is possible (see the Stalker or Highlander)

View PostVictor Morson, on 09 December 2013 - 09:20 PM, said:

Thou shalt always try to maintain line of sight!

Exception: if you are sitting on a cap point and would need to leave said cap point to gain line of sight - matches are frequently won or lost that way.

View PostVictor Morson, on 09 December 2013 - 09:20 PM, said:

Thou shalt always control their fire!
When using different sized launchers, you need to make some calls on how to operate them. Effectively:
  • Against AMS - Wait until your largest longer recycles before firing a new salvo each time.
  • Against non-AMS - Continually fire as fast as your launchers can recycle until you become too warm, then switch to group fire.
Again, avoid chain fire against AMS targets, and in general a big group is better than chained shots; I make an exception when using mismatched launchers since this can allow you to gain a lot of extra DPS against a non-AMS target.

Good heavens! Victor! Making exceptions!
Good advice though.

#5 ColonelMetus

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Posted 09 December 2013 - 10:28 PM

this is my lrm mech

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...9b2e861884290c0

#6 Victor Morson

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Posted 10 December 2013 - 02:49 AM

View PostColonelMetus, on 09 December 2013 - 10:28 PM, said:



Here's a version with more armor and no Ghost Heat you might find an improvement:

Improved Heat Battlemaster

#7 Victor Morson

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Posted 10 December 2013 - 02:55 AM

View PostShar Wolf, on 09 December 2013 - 09:44 PM, said:

Unless you know your teammates are going to be bringing some as well.
(LRM5 x 12 people in a team = more than your limit, and doesn't weight much or limit builds on mechs 50 tons and over much)


Even then. You can't count on everyone to have missiles in the air at the same time.

View PostShar Wolf, on 09 December 2013 - 09:44 PM, said:

Which completely invalidates the Stalker as a missile boat for anything other than SRM (and on a mech that unmaneuverable?)


Some Stalkers have more than enough tubes for clustered LRMs.

View PostShar Wolf, on 09 December 2013 - 09:44 PM, said:

Unless you know you have friend(s) (not all puggers drop solo my friend) who you know are bringing it for you, and even then it is usually a good idea (extra sensor range and countering ECM are almost always useful)


Two BAP are better than one, and can counter two ECM 'mechs. If your friends want to bring BAP too more power to them but it should have no impact on you taking it.

View PostShar Wolf, on 09 December 2013 - 09:44 PM, said:

Frequently a good idea, but not always possible (IE one catapult can carry an impressive number of missiles, but has no energy slot to put a tag in)


That's the A1. The A1 is an inferior LRM boat to the C4. Thus I do not recommend the A1 for LRMs due to ti's lack of TAG. The rule still applies.

View PostShar Wolf, on 09 December 2013 - 09:44 PM, said:

Pretty near worthless on an LRM5 (exception - the lock on time) (yes vic, I am well aware you consider that weapon already worthless) and debatably so on an LRM10 - definitly a must have on the LRM20 though.
Fun note: 2 ALRM5 weight the same as 1 ALRM10


Absolutely untrue. A TAG+Artemis LRM5 will have incredible anti-light homing capabilities. As you generally fire the 5s & 10s in the same volley with the 15s & 20s (unless you have a target without AMS as in the last section) you still need Artemis. If you mean just a 5, yeah, that's an awful idea to have a single LRM/5 in the first place.

View PostShar Wolf, on 09 December 2013 - 09:44 PM, said:

2 LRM20 2LRM5 give you one missile spread where 1/4 to 1/2 your missiles are spreading all over, and one where all of them are hitting CT - meaning you are very nearly firing the LRM20s just to let your 5s hit.
Similar issues with 3 LRM15


While it's true smaller launchers offer tighter spreads, Ghost Heat is the up most priority. My current favorite mboat is running a 15/10/5 split, so shots land in a brutal "cone." But it is not worth splitting volleys up for missile grouping.

View PostShar Wolf, on 09 December 2013 - 09:44 PM, said:

This one I have no arguments with, other than most 'new players' are not going to have ANY modules, let alone this one. :)


If they like LRMs it should be a priority purchase.

View PostShar Wolf, on 09 December 2013 - 09:44 PM, said:

The bigger your mech (necessary for large LRM boating) the less this one is possible (see the Stalker or Highlander)


Exactly why most assaults make a poor LRM boat. The only passable assault LRM 'mech at present is the Battlemaster.

View PostShar Wolf, on 09 December 2013 - 09:44 PM, said:

Exception: if you are sitting on a cap point and would need to leave said cap point to gain line of sight - matches are frequently won or lost that way.


Generally LRM 'mechs aren't in cap points unless surrounded by allies anyway. Minimum range forces you to stay out, shooting inward.

View PostShar Wolf, on 09 December 2013 - 09:44 PM, said:

Good heavens! Victor! Making exceptions!
Good advice though.


Picking the most effective way to fire based on your victim's strengths & weakness sounds good to me.

#8 Rascula

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Posted 10 December 2013 - 04:08 AM

I wouldnt take all of these commandments as written in stone <See what I did there!>

New players should be encouraged to tinker with builds to get they're own style going, but if they follow the basic rules you've put up here they cant go to far wrong.

The only thing ill say really is your wrong about the best assault LRM boat being the Battlemaster.. it is and will always be the Awesome!!! <Although the Bam is pretty damn good>

Pretty solid advice all round though, good job!

#9 OneEyed Jack

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Posted 10 December 2013 - 04:30 AM

View PostVictor Morson, on 10 December 2013 - 02:55 AM, said:

Exactly why most assaults make a poor LRM boat. The only passable assault LRM 'mech at present is the Battlemaster.

oh, I wouldn't say that. Like I said, your advice is good for beginners, and for them, I think you're right that they should stick with faster boats, until they learn how to maneuver better, so as not to need the speed as much.

View PostRascula, on 10 December 2013 - 04:08 AM, said:

New players should be encouraged to tinker with builds to get they're own style going, but if they follow the basic rules you've put up here they cant go to far wrong.

I'd say new players should be encouraged to stick with and master the basics before they start experimenting. It gives them a a starting point, as well as a base-line to compare to, and makes it less likely they do purely stupid stuff because they don't know better.

#10 Samziel

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Posted 10 December 2013 - 04:30 AM

How much ghost heat would LRM10+LRM20 cause? Is it better to switch for LRM20+LRM5? The mech is Orion K so only 2 missile hardpoints.

Edited by Samziel, 10 December 2013 - 04:31 AM.


#11 Caswallon

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Posted 10 December 2013 - 04:37 AM

Hmm Vic for God.. No offence dude but no. Though I didn't take it that way personally .. On the other hand as a prophet maaaybeeee. Heres how I did.
1) Check :)
2) Check :P
3) Check :rolleyes:
4) Awwwee do I have too... I usually try and team with a Light for the Tagging. I'll bear it in mind tho' :mellow:
5) Check :D
6) Check :)
7) Check :)
8) ? Last time I looked I was upto 87. something so I'll call this a check. I agree with the principle but given how many scary stalkers LRM boats I see around the battlefield there appear to be workable exceptions. ;)
9) Check :)
10) Check :)

Good guide love the attempt at humor too...

#12 TercieI

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Posted 10 December 2013 - 04:56 AM

View PostSamziel, on 10 December 2013 - 04:30 AM, said:

How much ghost heat would LRM10+LRM20 cause? Is it better to switch for LRM20+LRM5? The mech is Orion K so only 2 missile hardpoints.


None. Then short version is 2 "big" (10+) launchers cause no ghost heat, the third one does. And LRM5s basically don't cause ghost heat at all. So you can take any 2 big launchers and supplemental 5s without worry

Edited by Terciel1976, 10 December 2013 - 04:57 AM.


#13 Victor Morson

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Posted 10 December 2013 - 05:32 AM

View PostRascula, on 10 December 2013 - 04:08 AM, said:

I wouldnt take all of these commandments as written in stone <See what I did there!>


I would. Failing to do any one of these things gimps your build period, cut & dried.

View PostOneEyed Jack, on 10 December 2013 - 04:30 AM, said:

oh, I wouldn't say that. Like I said, your advice is good for beginners, and for them, I think you're right that they should stick with faster boats, until they learn how to maneuver better, so as not to need the speed as much.


You always need the speed. It is so you can withdraw from a target at the same rate it is chasing you, and can continually pump LRMs in it, hence the section about "maintaining range." This requirement does not go away as you get better.

View PostTerciel1976, on 10 December 2013 - 04:56 AM, said:

None. Then short version is 2 "big" (10+) launchers cause no ghost heat, the third one does. And LRM5s basically don't cause ghost heat at all. So you can take any 2 big launchers and supplemental 5s without worry


It also always gives you ghost heat from the largest gun in the cycle.

i.e. 3 LRM/10s would be 3 LRM/10s worth of Ghost Heat (as expected)
3 LRM/10s and an LRM/20 would be 4 LRM/20s worth of Ghost Heat (flash fry yourself!)

#14 Charons Little Helper

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Posted 10 December 2013 - 06:02 AM

View PostVictor Morson, on 09 December 2013 - 09:20 PM, said:

Thou shalt always carry a Beagle Active Probe (BAP)


I totally agree on an LRM boat. However - on an assault mech - you can make a mech who has decent LRMs and solid other abilities who doesn't need BAP. On an LRM boat - that ECM light can make you worthless. On the assault hybrid - you should probably be busy shooting it with your non-LRM weapons anyway.

#15 Samziel

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Posted 10 December 2013 - 06:41 AM

View PostCharons Little Helper, on 10 December 2013 - 06:02 AM, said:


I totally agree on an LRM boat. However - on an assault mech - you can make a mech who has decent LRMs and solid other abilities who doesn't need BAP. On an LRM boat - that ECM light can make you worthless. On the assault hybrid - you should probably be busy shooting it with your non-LRM weapons anyway.

It's only 1,5 tons and you basically get 2 modules (Target info gathering and sensor range) and it counters ECM at close quarters. Whats bad in it? It is a must on everything if you just have the space and spare tonnage.

Edited by Samziel, 10 December 2013 - 06:41 AM.


#16 CapperDeluxe

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Posted 10 December 2013 - 07:12 AM

View PostSamziel, on 10 December 2013 - 06:41 AM, said:

It's only 1,5 tons and you basically get 2 modules (Target info gathering and sensor range) and it counters ECM at close quarters. Whats bad in it? It is a must on everything if you just have the space and spare tonnage.


Exactly as he put it, its a must have because there's little sacrificed for a decent amount of gain. Also you may find that enemy lights with ECM will be less willing to stick around you if you're countering their precious ECM, and all the while you're still able to shoot at their friends in the distance :) Win-Win.

Edited by CapperDeluxe, 10 December 2013 - 07:12 AM.


#17 Ngamok

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Posted 10 December 2013 - 07:35 AM

I also use the Advanced Sensor Range Module on my LRM boats as well. It helps with BAPs range which is 150m. It also helps with longer sensor range to target things farther if you need to and get information and if you want to make someone run for cover if you need by shooting LRMs at them so they think someone in range is about to hit them. It helps if you want to try to suppress the enemy if you are hauling lots of ammo.

View PostAym, on 09 December 2013 - 09:34 PM, said:

Thou shall get thine own locks in pugs

This could be an amendment to the TAG requirement...


Yea. The number of times people complain about no locks, especially if the enemy has tons of ECM is huge. I got into an arguement once with someone who complained about it. I told him next time drop one of the lasers and add the TAG and do it yourself. Of course he went off yadda yadda yadda.

#18 Sug

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Posted 10 December 2013 - 07:57 AM

View PostVictor Morson, on 09 December 2013 - 09:20 PM, said:

Since there is little downside other than a visual signature for firing it, you can place it in a group with your missile weapons in addition to all other weapon groups, and not even have to worry about micromanaging it.


I always keep TAG in a separate group. If it's grouped with my missiles then I'll have to fire an unlocked salvo to activate TAG and get a lock on a target with ECM.




View PostShar Wolf, on 09 December 2013 - 09:44 PM, said:

Unless you know you have friend(s) (not all puggers drop solo my friend)


Uh...dropping solo pretty much defines pugging. If you aren't that is considered being in a group.

#19 Ngamok

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Posted 10 December 2013 - 08:08 AM

@ Victor

Only one Stalker has tubes higher than 10 and that's the 3H. All the others have 10s and 6s so unless you want to run all LRM10s and 5s, the 3H can handle the 20s in the arms and 5s in the torso slots.

#20 Shar Wolf

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Posted 10 December 2013 - 10:23 AM

View PostVictor Morson, on 10 December 2013 - 02:55 AM, said:

Even then. You can't count on everyone to have missiles in the air at the same time.

If everyone is coordinated enough to act like pugs are 12 mans (which would be a requirement for your tier list) you could

View PostVictor Morson, on 10 December 2013 - 02:55 AM, said:

Some Stalkers have more than enough tubes for clustered LRMs.

Already countered by someone else

View PostVictor Morson, on 10 December 2013 - 02:55 AM, said:

Two BAP are better than one, and can counter two ECM 'mechs. If your friends want to bring BAP too more power to them but it should have no impact on you taking it.

Already agreed with it in the general sense - just pointing out that there are exceptions

View PostVictor Morson, on 10 December 2013 - 02:55 AM, said:

That's the A1. The A1 is an inferior LRM boat to the C4. Thus I do not recommend the A1 for LRMs due to ti's lack of TAG. The rule still applies.

And yet it does things very well that no other catapult can even dream of (2lrm 4srm builds for example)

View PostVictor Morson, on 10 December 2013 - 02:55 AM, said:

Absolutely untrue. A TAG+Artemis LRM5 will have incredible anti-light homing capabilities. As you generally fire the 5s & 10s in the same volley with the 15s & 20s (unless you have a target without AMS as in the last section) you still need Artemis. If you mean just a 5, yeah, that's an awful idea to have a single LRM/5 in the first place.

If you are hunting lights with LRM it could be argued you are already doing it wrong, especially if you are flinging a pair of 15s or 20s at them.

View PostVictor Morson, on 10 December 2013 - 02:55 AM, said:

While it's true smaller launchers offer tighter spreads, Ghost Heat is the up most priority. My current favorite mboat is running a 15/10/5 split, so shots land in a brutal "cone." But it is not worth splitting volleys up for missile grouping.

Ghost heat is much less a bogeyman than everyone makes it out to be.

View PostVictor Morson, on 10 December 2013 - 02:55 AM, said:

If they like LRMs it should be a priority purchase.

By the time they have the GXP to get it, they no longer really qualify as a 'new player'
(that is several thousand matches my friend)

View PostVictor Morson, on 10 December 2013 - 02:55 AM, said:

Exactly why most assaults make a poor LRM boat. The only passable assault LRM 'mech at present is the Battlemaster.

In your view yes.

View PostVictor Morson, on 10 December 2013 - 02:55 AM, said:

Generally LRM 'mechs aren't in cap points unless surrounded by allies anyway. Minimum range forces you to stay out, shooting inward.

Translation: it is better for your pug team to lose because you should never be flexible





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