474 replies to this topic

[Victor Morson]

heh, people thought the "51m extra range for a heat increase!" thing was a placeholder joke too.

And we got modules that give a 1m extra range increase. I mean.. yeah.

EDIT: Been taking some skirmisher tutorial videos everyone, will be uploading some soon.

Edited by Victor Morson, 04 February 2014 - 09:13 PM.

[wanderer]

Quote

Personally, I like 1453 R's suggestion about reducing ammo. The reduced weight of the launchers will be countered by the "need" for more weight of ammo. But, at the same time, will leave all stock versions as still very viable to play with and able to be configured.

This also neatly dodges the "BUT CLANTECH IS..." bit on launchers and such.

After all, you're giving them TT ammo loads that way. So better launcher, need for more ammo for spamfire.

[PinkFluffyUnicorns]

Victor, thank you so much for the guide. Everything you said was spot on. I spent my cadet money on your SH build and though I had my doubts about whether I'd like the gameplay with it, I love it. I bought the Ilya on sale and I still so far have a higher KDR with the SH. Though that grind for stage 2 of the advanced targeting decay is going very slowly, but I don't play as much as I'd like to. Also, I may try your triple gauss build for kicks...love the "cause mayhem while trying not to get noticed" builds.

Tesunie, thank you for the migraine (and being Victor's character foil).

[Tesunie]

PinkFluffyUnicorns, on 13 February 2014 - 06:45 AM, said:

Tesunie, thank you for the migraine (and being Victor's character foil).

Don't know if this should be taken as a compliment, or an insult... either way I just want to note that I didn't disagree with his advice, I just wanted to mention that there are "more than one way" to play. Overall, he has very good advice, and great advice for LRM Skirmishers.

[Alaskan Nobody]

PinkFluffyUnicorns, on 13 February 2014 - 06:45 AM, said:

Tesunie, thank you for the migraine (and being Victor's character foil).

Tesunie, on 13 February 2014 - 12:49 PM, said:

Don't know if this should be taken as a compliment, or an insult...

My question would be which would be Pinky and which would be The Brain

After that Q gets answered, which would be the Genius and which would be Insane?

I would take it as a compliment. You two almost make a Comedy Duo.

[Tesunie]

Shar Wolf, on 13 February 2014 - 12:56 PM, said:

I would take it as a compliment. You two almost make a Comedy Duo.

At least I'm useful for comedy if nothing else...

[Alaskan Nobody]

Tesunie, on 13 February 2014 - 01:09 PM, said:

At least I'm useful for comedy if nothing else...

More than just comedy.

Somebody has to be there to point out the holes in Victors otherwise brilliant guides - and I get to personal with it.

[Dead Eyes]

Mostly facts. Always keeping line of sight seems like a strange concept for a boat. 88 clicks a little fast. Rather an assault with more armor and ammo. But definitely a good guide. Mostly LRM boats thrive on good teammates who understand the limitations of a full boat.Thanks for the contribution.

Edited by Dead Eyes, 13 February 2014 - 03:37 PM.

[Buckminster]

Dead Eyes, on 13 February 2014 - 03:35 PM, said:

Mostly facts. Always keeping line of sight seems like a strange concept for a boat. 88 clicks a little fast. Rather an assault with more armor and ammo. But definitely a good guide. Mostly LRM boats thrive on good teammates who understand the limitations of a full boat.Thanks for the contribution.

And you've just hit the main point - the difference between a "boat" and an "LRM skirmisher". Victor is a HUGE proponent of the LRM skirmisher theory of LRMs, which depends more on maneuverability and position and less on filling the air with missiles.

[Tesunie]

Buckminster, on 13 February 2014 - 06:24 PM, said:

And you've just hit the main point - the difference between a "boat" and an "LRM skirmisher". Victor is a HUGE proponent of the LRM skirmisher theory of LRMs, which depends more on maneuverability and position and less on filling the air with missiles.

But, by what I've heard Victor say, his LRM skirmishers are a type of LRM boat, as in, only weapon on them are LRMs (and TAG).

The definition of boat is to carry only one type of weapon. I don't consider TAG to be "weapon" in its own right. Victor's LRM skirmishers (or ones I've seen that he's posted) carry only LRMs. No back up weapons. Fills the bill of an LRM "boat".

[Buckminster]

I see what you mean. In theory, a Cat A1 with 6 LRM5s qualifies as an LRM boat. Personally, when I hear "boat", I think of something more like your LRM60 Stalkers, the kind of mechs that need to carry 10 tons of ammo, because half of what they launch will hit terrain.

[Tesunie]

Buckminster, on 13 February 2014 - 06:42 PM, said:

I see what you mean. In theory, a Cat A1 with 6 LRM5s qualifies as an LRM boat. Personally, when I hear "boat", I think of something more like your LRM60 Stalkers, the kind of mechs that need to carry 10 tons of ammo, because half of what they launch will hit terrain.

There is a reason I mentioned that there are many different ways to play LRMs in this game. Victor's Skirmisher is only but one style of play. Same goes for the LRM "tube heavy" boats. I personally prefer something with a bit more balance to it myself. I mix my LRMs with other weapons to try and bridge the gap between range/support and close in defense. (Personally, a lot of my builds I describe as "guard" mechs, where I protect other teammates, in particular the LRM boats and Snipers.)

[RamsoPanzer]

Im sorry but i think this is a guide about "How to be a noob in this game."

Dont worry, I have other names like:
"Guide about what to do if you cant aim"
"Easy loadouts for dummies"

Dont be too hard with me, its my opinion, i just like to troll this post from time to time. xD

[Victor Morson]

RamsoPanzer, on 13 February 2014 - 06:56 PM, said:

Im sorry but i think this is a guide about "How to be a noob in this game."

Dont worry, I have other names like:
"Guide about what to do if you cant aim"
"Easy loadouts for dummies"

Because clearly, it takes so much more skill to use a couple PPCs and Ultras. Here, let me write a quick guide on how to use them:

1) Get into range
2) Aim at target
3) Press button until desired effective is achieved

[p4r4g0n]

For what its worth, I'm close approaching meeting all of Victor's commandments through a gradual and loooonnngggg process of trial and error. Just need to build up enough confidence to swap the 2 streak launchers for LRMs 5.

Not entirely sure I want to dump that last ML for another ton of ammo though although I take Victor's point that it doesn't really do much but let's see how it goes. May just turn out that extra ton of ammo is worth more than the remote chance of that ML being absolutely necessary. Then again, the weirdest things can happen in solo drops.

[1453 R]

LRMs are one of the most difficult weapons to use effectively in this game. Yes, you can just throw sixty LRM tubes on a Stalker, vomit up missiles at every red box you see for longer than a second, and hope the other team obliges you...but in order to make efficient and effective use of LRMs, against a team ready and able to not be dumb about it? That takes a degree of tactical planning and ability to read and respond to the battlefield around them that a lot of people these days only think they have.

People need to get off of this 'guided weapons don't need skill' kick. LRMs are much more difficult to land telling hits with than the conventional PPC/autocannon metagame in play at the moment. The flight time alone guarantees that you need to be hitting from the right angles against the right targets, you need to maintain that lock - and thus be facing your target - for huge amounts of time without dying, and frankly? In order to get maximum benefit out of LRMs you have to hold TAG on the target as well, which requires that steady, oh-so-skillful direct-fire aim you folks keep on harping about for longer than any other weapon in Mechwarrior.

I would argue that any idiot can do decently up to just fine with a PPC/duAC/5 Victor or Highlander. It takes real ability to be able to do consistently well with a Lurmishing medium that doesn't get to fall back on "blast 'em 'till they stop twitchin'."

[Buckminster]

Agreed. It's a lot easier to be effective in my Jagers than it is in my Catapults. Everyone assumes that LRMs are easy mode, but no other weapon system lets the target know you're shooting at it, and no other weapon system has an active defense.

[RamsoPanzer]

Victor Morson, on 13 February 2014 - 11:21 PM, said:

Because clearly, it takes so much more skill to use a couple PPCs and Ultras. Here, let me write a quick guide on how to use them:

1) Get into range
2) Aim at target
3) Press button until desired effective is achieved

At least you have to aim, with Lrms you dont.

[Tesunie]

1453 R, on 14 February 2014 - 05:03 AM, said:

LRMs are one of the most difficult weapons to use effectively in this game. Yes, you can just throw sixty LRM tubes on a Stalker, vomit up missiles at every red box you see for longer than a second, and hope the other team obliges you...but in order to make efficient and effective use of LRMs, against a team ready and able to not be dumb about it? That takes a degree of tactical planning and ability to read and respond to the battlefield around them that a lot of people these days only think they have.

People need to get off of this 'guided weapons don't need skill' kick. LRMs are much more difficult to land telling hits with than the conventional PPC/autocannon metagame in play at the moment. The flight time alone guarantees that you need to be hitting from the right angles against the right targets, you need to maintain that lock - and thus be facing your target - for huge amounts of time without dying, and frankly? In order to get maximum benefit out of LRMs you have to hold TAG on the target as well, which requires that steady, oh-so-skillful direct-fire aim you folks keep on harping about for longer than any other weapon in Mechwarrior.

I would argue that any idiot can do decently up to just fine with a PPC/duAC/5 Victor or Highlander. It takes real ability to be able to do consistently well with a Lurmishing medium that doesn't get to fall back on "blast 'em 'till they stop twitchin'."

There was a reason I wrote up LRMs Require Skill to Properly Use ( http://mwomercs.com/...use/page__st__0 ) and I placed my arguments on why that is so.

Edited by Tesunie, 14 February 2014 - 07:40 AM.

[Tesunie]

RamsoPanzer, on 14 February 2014 - 07:25 AM, said:

At least you have to aim, with Lrms you dont.

Suggest you read my linked post above, where I reason why LRMs require skill to use well. This argument is a "yes, but no" one. Yes, it requires little to no skill to target, lock, shoot LRMs. However, it requires quite a bit of skill to know what targets to shoot at, where to shoot, and when/where not to shoot. It takes skill to land LRM hits regularly, and to not just get closed in on and die. It's even harder than any other weapon system in the game to blind fire those LRMs (at the moment at least) and actually hit your target! (When in ECM land, sometimes it is best to take the ECM "I'm protected from LRMs" and blind fire a few rounds into them for standing still. No warnings either.)