675 replies to this topic

[Dock Steward]

Alright, different idea: how much programming trouble would it be to add in a new variable to every weapon in the form of Force Exertion on Shooter? Lasers wouldn't exert force on the shooter, Missiles would exert very little, but the larger the Caliber the AC, the more force it exerts on the shooting mech. This force would be instantaneous and therefore would have no effect on chain fired weapons. The effect of too much force could be anything from internal damage to self knockdown. 1) Would this be a huge programming endeavor? 2) Would it be a beneficial change?

[anonymous161]

Varent, on 02 January 2014 - 08:29 AM, said:

I average about 400+ in that mech pretty much every time, peaking around 700-800.

Obviously there are matches where you will get caught in a bad situation and outflanked or outmaneuvered or the god shots that hit you in an unlucky way. I quite like the mech and layout however.

That said I enjoy brawling and using those weapons. Some dont.

That said I actually agree on a major point of your statement Noesis. Situational.

Like everything in this game regarding balance.

I get same performance in my spider with er large laser and 4 machine guns...I have often gotten as many as 4 to 6 kills, though other day I sucked couldn't manage more than 2 kills in a match though only played like maybe 5 then I get bored.

[Allen Ward]

Dock Steward, on 05 January 2014 - 02:43 PM, said:

Alright, different idea: how much programming trouble would it be to add in a new variable to every weapon in the form of Force Exertion on Shooter? Lasers wouldn't exert force on the shooter, Missiles would exert very little, but the larger the Caliber the AC, the more force it exerts on the shooting mech. This force would be instantaneous and therefore would have no effect on chain fired weapons. The effect of too much force could be anything from internal damage to self knockdown. 1) Would this be a huge programming endeavor? 2) Would it be a beneficial change?

Could be cool. Especially if they recalculate it on mech weight. If you fire an AC20 from a Hunchback or from an Atlas schould make a difference. I just wonder how Cataphract will handle this (Gyro Module?). If you have 4 AC5 kicking wildly you will not hit anything anymore

Or didnt you talk about recoil?

Edited by Allen Ward, 05 January 2014 - 02:48 PM.

[Dock Steward]

Allen Ward, on 05 January 2014 - 02:46 PM, said:

Could be cool. Especially if they recalculate it on mech weight. If you fire an AC20 from a Hunchback or from an Atlas schould make a difference. I just wonder how Cataphract will handle this (Gyro Module?). If you have 4 AC5 kicking wildly you will not hit anything anymore

Yeah, I forgot that part. It would totally factor in mech weight in terms of what each chassis' threshold before effect would be.

[Sandpit]

Varent, on 05 January 2014 - 02:42 PM, said:

Take away the uac 5 delay and im all for it. I dont really see a reason to put a delay on those but the ac10... I dunno I mean its so underused... I use it but not many do. AC20 I think would be good with it myself.

UACs don't have a delay by default though. That's the point of having a UAC and dealing with their jam mechanics. Even now if you're using dual UAC5 there's a slight delay between clicking two separate buttons to chain fire them. If you reduced the delay to AC5's to .025 that is extemely slight

[Varent]

Sandpit, on 05 January 2014 - 02:53 PM, said:

UACs don't have a delay by default though. That's the point of having a UAC and dealing with their jam mechanics. Even now if you're using dual UAC5 there's a slight delay between clicking two separate buttons to chain fire them. If you reduced the delay to AC5's to .025 that is extemely slight

your already dealing with a delay factor in jams. I dont feel you need to deal with an additional delay.

[Sandpit]

Allen Ward, on 05 January 2014 - 02:46 PM, said:

Could be cool. Especially if they recalculate it on mech weight. If you fire an AC20 from a Hunchback or from an Atlas schould make a difference. I just wonder how Cataphract will handle this (Gyro Module?). If you have 4 AC5 kicking wildly you will not hit anything anymore

Or didnt you talk about recoil?

recoil is a non-factor in Btech. I'm not for anything that changes core mechanics from that or where we're at now. Gyros already handle that and even my idea goes into that slightly. I simply do not want this straying form the Btech core. You can argue "this isn't Btech anymore" (which I've seen many do) but it is. It is to me and a lot of the Btech fans. The further you go into that the further you diverge from that core.

Varent, on 05 January 2014 - 02:53 PM, said:

your already dealing with a delay factor in jams. I dont feel you need to deal with an additional delay.

That's why I said UACs don't have a delay by default due to their design of rapid fire

[Varent]

Sandpit, on 05 January 2014 - 02:56 PM, said:

That's why I said UACs don't have a delay by default due to their design of rapid fire

shrug.

The major issue is the ac20 or at least thats what people feel it is.

[Dock Steward]

Sandpit, on 05 January 2014 - 02:56 PM, said:

recoil is a non-factor in Btech. I'm not for anything that changes core mechanics from that or where we're at now. Gyros already handle that and even my idea goes into that slightly. I simply do not want this straying form the Btech core. You can argue "this isn't Btech anymore" (which I've seen many do) but it is. It is to me and a lot of the Btech fans. The further you go into that the further you diverge from that core.

Full disclosure: I only ever owned the Citytech starter, and probably only had the chance to play it 1-2 dozen times. So, pretty ignorant of the TT, I admit. That being said, didn't lore in other forms incorporate recoil? Weren't mechs suppose to fall down from it if too many big weapons were fired at once? Isn't this a thing SOMEWHERE?

[Sandpit]

Dock Steward, on 05 January 2014 - 03:00 PM, said:

Full disclosure: I only ever owned the Citytech starter, and probably only had the chance to play it 1-2 dozen times. So, pretty ignorant of the TT, I admit. That being said, didn't lore in other forms incorporate recoil? Weren't mechs suppose to fall down from it if too many big weapons were fired at once? Isn't this a thing SOMEWHERE?

Nope

Now if a mech TOOK damage they were required to make a piloting skill role to stay vertical.
I think if they took 20 in a single round they made a psr
then they had modifiers to that roll of +1 for additional damage

I think that's what you might be referring to

Varent, on 05 January 2014 - 02:59 PM, said:

shrug.

The major issue is the ac20 or at least thats what people feel it is.

Exactly and this mechanic would affect that more than any other build hopefully slowing the QQ, rage, griping, calls for OP, legitimate concerns, etc. about it. At least that's what I would hope for

[Dock Steward]

Sandpit, on 05 January 2014 - 03:06 PM, said:

Nope

Now if a mech TOOK damage they were required to make a piloting skill role to stay vertical.
I think if they took 20 in a single round they made a psr
then they had modifiers to that roll of +1 for additional damage

I think that's what you might be referring to


Exactly and this mechanic would affect that more than any other build hopefully slowing the QQ, rage, griping, calls for OP, legitimate concerns, etc. about it. At least that's what I would hope for

Nah, I don't think that's what I'm thinking of. I'm pretty sure I've heard people who've read the books talk about big weapons blowing themselves right off of the mech under certain circumstances or mechs knocking themselves right over with powerful Alphas. Again, I've never read a BT book, but I could have sworn I've heard people reference that idea.

[Sandpit]

Dock Steward, on 05 January 2014 - 03:08 PM, said:

Nah, I don't think that's what I'm thinking of. I'm pretty sure I've heard people who've read the books talk about big weapons blowing themselves right off of the mech under certain circumstances or mechs knocking themselves right over with powerful Alphas. Again, I've never read a BT book, but I could have sworn I've heard people reference that idea.

Nope, not unless it was a "dramatized" situation in a novel to add flavor. The mechanics of the actual game never worked like that

[Varent]

Sandpit, on 05 January 2014 - 03:06 PM, said:

Nope

Now if a mech TOOK damage they were required to make a piloting skill role to stay vertical.
I think if they took 20 in a single round they made a psr
then they had modifiers to that roll of +1 for additional damage

I think that's what you might be referring to


Exactly and this mechanic would affect that more than any other build hopefully slowing the QQ, rage, griping, calls for OP, legitimate concerns, etc. about it. At least that's what I would hope for

then if the main goal is the ac20 why not just change it so that you can only fire one ac20 within a certain period of time and it puts both on cd etc. something like that. Why target the other smaller ac? It would still allow all the other builds to function normally that way.

[Sandpit]

Varent, on 05 January 2014 - 03:09 PM, said:

then if the main goal is the ac20 why not just change it so that you can only fire one ac20 within a certain period of time and it puts both on cd etc. something like that. Why target the other smaller ac? It would still allow all the other builds to function normally that way.

That's pretty much what I thought I was proposing. That's why it scales down to smaller ballistics
AC2 would be completely unaffected
AC5 (not UAC or RAC) would have maybe a .025 (that's less than one tenth of a second we're talking about but all of these are just examples and could be adjusted)
AC10 maybe a .25
AC20 maybe a .5

[Dock Steward]

Sandpit, on 05 January 2014 - 03:09 PM, said:

Nope, not unless it was a "dramatized" situation in a novel to add flavor. The mechanics of the actual game never worked like that

I stand corrected, then. Personally I still like the idea of recoil having an effect, but I can understand it being too much of a departure for others.

[Varent]

Sandpit, on 05 January 2014 - 03:12 PM, said:

That's pretty much what I thought I was proposing. That's why it scales down to smaller ballistics
AC2 would be completely unaffected
AC5 (not UAC or RAC) would have maybe a .025 (that's less than one tenth of a second we're talking about but all of these are just examples and could be adjusted)
AC10 maybe a .25
AC20 maybe a .5

*thumbs up*

[Sandpit]

Dock Steward, on 05 January 2014 - 03:13 PM, said:

I stand corrected, then. Personally I still like the idea of recoil having an effect, but I can understand it being too much of a departure for others.

The gyro is specifically equipped for this. In TT if you take a gyro shot (there's 3 gyro hit locations in a standard gyro) you're all but screwed. All PSR's at that point are modified by a +3 which is huge because moving at anything above walking speed would require a PSR to stay vertical plus the damage I talked about, and melee attacks (kicks to be exact), etc. all add on to those PSRs and require separate PSRs each time but even then your own weapon firing doesn't affect your balance

[Rebas Kradd]

The necessary drawback to AC20 boats already exists: they usually need an XL engine. If pugs were regularly able to coordinate, these and every other boat out there would be regarded as the death traps they really are.

Unfortunately, the basic mechanics of the game don't really allow enemies to exploit that vulnerability. Screen shake, LRM5 spam, blinding smoke, and the "stick together" mentality ensure that any attempts to get to an AC40 Jager will be futile as long as it doesn't wander off alone. And forget any chance of communicating or coordinating fire on a specific target.

Edited by Rebas Kradd, 05 January 2014 - 03:18 PM.

[Dock Steward]

Wait a minute!

If I can still hit the "Alpha" button with my AC/40 and fire an Alpha with no more penalty than I have now, then what's actually changed?

Edit: Whoops! This comment references a part of this conversation that took place in another thread. Sorry if that was a cause of confusion for anyone.

Edited by Dock Steward, 05 January 2014 - 03:29 PM.

[Sandpit]

Varent, on 05 January 2014 - 03:15 PM, said:

*thumbs up*

Now I feel accomplished lol

It isn't meant to affect those support builds like you're talking about. It's only meant to slow down slightly big caliber weapons from being able to fire off multiple shots simultaneously. Now rounding a corner into 4 AC20 mechs still sucks but it's not a instant death sentence of 80 pinpoint damage from 4 mechs firing into your RT. It's an "oh ****! this sucks, i'm completely chewed up and running away" sentence if that makes sense