675 replies to this topic

[Cimarb]

Sandpit, on 05 January 2014 - 03:19 PM, said:

Now I feel accomplished lol

It isn't meant to affect those support builds like you're talking about. It's only meant to slow down slightly big caliber weapons from being able to fire off multiple shots simultaneously. Now rounding a corner into 4 AC20 mechs still sucks but it's not a instant death sentence of 80 pinpoint damage from 4 mechs firing into your RT. It's an "oh ****! this sucks, i'm completely chewed up and running away" sentence if that makes sense

While I support trying it out, I still think a burst change would work better. Your delay doesn't help with PPC builds and only minimally affects AC40 builds (as ghost heat already forces you to shoot this way). It also doesn't address that an AC2/5 should not have a higher DPS than an AC10/20 - they should all be doing DPS according to their classification (scaled for MWO, but relative to each other instead of all ~20dps).

[Varent]

Cimarb, on 05 January 2014 - 07:25 PM, said:

While I support trying it out, I still think a burst change would work better. Your delay doesn't help with PPC builds and only minimally affects AC40 builds (as ghost heat already forces you to shoot this way). It also doesn't address that an AC2/5 should not have a higher DPS than an AC10/20 - they should all be doing DPS according to their classification (scaled for MWO, but relative to each other instead of all ~20dps).

You really gotta get off this DPS thing man. It means very very litt.e different weapons have different uses at different ranges. stop trying to make it so cookie cutter.

[Cimarb]

Autocannons are classified by the amount of damage they do in a set time period. DPS is the very thing that determines whether it is an AC2 or any AC20, so why does it bug you so much when I bring it up?

[Noesis]

I think the idea of applying hesitation to grouped weapons of similar type has potential Sandpit.

In principal it is the kind of subtle change needed to help separate group arrival of bullets on a Mech. And in the process not necessarily penalising singular ballistic weapon use or really changing how the weapon works.

As much as the values may need to be reviewed for best effects the idea in principal is sound.

Might need to consider different timings for AC5 and UAC5 to be slightly different as to ensure things like the Cataphract 4X cant land an AC5 and UAC5 together even if as a group of 4 they can no longer all land together. This since the normal bullet speed for these weapons is the same.

Also need to consider how this works with PPC ballistics. As similarly you may need to consider similar effects but again not being multiples of the delays you already have with ballistics for the possibilities of offsets arriving together. However bullet speeds will help here in some cases.

Also ultimately combinations of ballistics could be considered for hesitation such as if you are using Ballistics and PPC in the same group or firing together then hesitations might be shared, possibly averaged, I don't know.

In summary however I think the idea in principal has mileage to help with some application of pinpoint ballistic fire.

[Varent]

Cimarb, on 05 January 2014 - 07:53 PM, said:

Autocannons are classified by the amount of damage they do in a set time period. DPS is the very thing that determines whether it is an AC2 or any AC20, so why does it bug you so much when I bring it up?

For one. you are taking out the reason to use other autocannon based off situational use when it come to mech size. That actually takes away from the creative aspect of this game. Your so dead set on changing the game to fit this ideal of what it 'should' be that your not realizing your going to make it overly tame and take away people abilities towards creation wich is a huge draw. And that's just off the top of my head there. I don't even wanna go into the other major issues ive been listening.... AGAIN.

[Mcgral18]

Cimarb, on 05 January 2014 - 07:53 PM, said:

Autocannons are classified by the amount of damage they do in a set time period. DPS is the very thing that determines whether it is an AC2 or any AC20, so why does it bug you so much when I bring it up?

Well, that damage is supposed to be over 10 seconds, but PGI buggered that whole system by changing the armor and the fire rate. For the TT equivalent, the AC20 would need a 5 second cooldown (fires twice as fast agaisnt twice as much armor). But then it would be not so optimal in a brawl with the longest cooldown in the game.

Edited by Mcgral18, 05 January 2014 - 08:13 PM.

[Varent]

Mcgral18, on 05 January 2014 - 08:12 PM, said:

Well, that damage is supposed to be over 10 seconds, but PGI buggered that whole system by changing the armor and the fire rate. For the TT equivalent, the AC20 would need a 5 second cooldown (fires twice as fast agaisnt twice as much armor). But then it would be not so optimal in a brawl with the longest cooldown in the game.

Your right, we should also take out much of the miss chance that speed offers in this game. Make it easier for everything to land. That would mean all the light mechs should obviously travel at the speeds in table top too. Its only fair. We definetly have to make it more like TT right?

[Mcgral18]

Varent, on 05 January 2014 - 08:15 PM, said:

Your right, we should also take out much of the miss chance that speed offers in this game. Make it easier for everything to land. That would mean all the light mechs should obviously travel at the speeds in table top too. Its only fair. We definetly have to make it more like TT right?

You should make it something that doesn't have a clear advantage when compared to lasers and missiles. You don't want burst, I do.

[Varent]

Mcgral18, on 05 January 2014 - 08:22 PM, said:

You should make it something that doesn't have a clear advantage when compared to lasers and missiles. You don't want burst, I do.

Indeed, but you should realize you want a system that will make other mechs heavily outclassed and even make a few mechs rather pointless to use. You also are creating a system that makes it even harder to effectively damage light mechs which already are exploiting there speed and the natural disadvantages such employs into a shooting game. You should consider that many things in this game are the way they are because its a shooter not TT. if you want to alter the game because of TT reasons then try to make the whole game TT or you will create further imbalances. That said if it does become that I know it will probly die since only the whales and those interested enough to play that will play it. They aren't enough community to support an online game.

[Mcgral18]

Varent, on 05 January 2014 - 08:29 PM, said:

Indeed, but you should realize you want a system that will make other mechs heavily outclassed and even make a few mechs rather pointless to use. You also are creating a system that makes it even harder to effectively damage light mechs which already are exploiting there speed and the natural disadvantages such employs into a shooting game. You should consider that many things in this game are the way they are because its a shooter not TT. if you want to alter the game because of TT reasons then try to make the whole game TT or you will create further imbalances. That said if it does become that I know it will probly die since only the whales and those interested enough to play that will play it. They aren't enough community to support an online game.

The least PGI could do is make a poll in the game after signing in, or test it on the PTS, along with all the other issues the community is debating. Only a portion of the players actually use the forums, so a poll when logging in would give us a much better representation.

[Varent]

Mcgral18, on 05 January 2014 - 08:32 PM, said:

The least PGI could do is make a poll in the game after signing in, or test it on the PTS, along with all the other issues the community is debating. Only a portion of the players actually use the forums, so a poll when logging in would give us a much better representation.

actually now THAT is a fantastic idea. It would have tobe something simple and easy though, so slightly dubbed down since most gamers do not have patience and may just click past it to play real quick if its too long a question.

[Noesis]

Varent, on 05 January 2014 - 08:15 PM, said:

Your right, we should also take out much of the miss chance that speed offers in this game. Make it easier for everything to land. That would mean all the light mechs should obviously travel at the speeds in table top too. Its only fair. We definetly have to make it more like TT right?

Except lights still have engine restrictions in MWO and we have no MASC either. So we are comparatively slower than TT already.

[Varent]

Noesis, on 05 January 2014 - 08:36 PM, said:

Except lights still have engine restrictions in MWO and we have no MASC either. So we are comparatively slower than TT already.

Actually masc is an advanced system that was not introduced in original TT wich is what we are basically playing considering the weapons we are using etc.

[Noesis]

Varent, on 05 January 2014 - 08:37 PM, said:

Actually masc is an advanced system that was not introduced in original TT wich is what we are basically playing considering the weapons we are using etc.

Erm nope, PGI have said they are already considering MASC implementation. Nothing to do with versions of TT game. And the license allows for more content as needs, version of TT doesn't restrict their use of things like MASC.

[Varent]

Noesis, on 05 January 2014 - 08:42 PM, said:

Erm nope, PGI have said they are already considering MASC implementation. Nothing to do with versions of TT game. And the license allows for more content as needs, version of TT doesn't restrict their use of things like MASC.

I agree. Should also release MRM. BTW think carefully on that one before ya say yes

[Noesis]

Varent, on 05 January 2014 - 08:43 PM, said:

I agree. Should also release MRM. BTW think carefully on that one before ya say yes

Extended range SRMS with up to 20 in a volley. Yes I can see that having an impact on the game.

Just like UAC20's with the current mechanics.

[Varent]

Noesis, on 05 January 2014 - 08:48 PM, said:

Extended range SRMS with up to 20 in a volley. Yes I can see that having an impact on the game.

Just like UAC20's with the current mechanics.

ahh but we are all arguing that we should set it up more like tabletop. since its balanced? so we should obviously be able to run MRM as well That would make sense.

[Noesis]

Varent, on 05 January 2014 - 08:49 PM, said:

ahh but we are all arguing that we should set it up more like tabletop. since its balanced? so we should obviously be able to run MRM as well That would make sense.

Well if they were spread out with volley size or range then presumably they may have a place in MWO. Again values can be changed to protect the innocent here.

Just like clans really with the idea of changing their weapons to balance them more with IS tech.

But this since we can identify that these would be potentially OP with the twitch FPS mechanics we have currently.

Again this then presumably the existing reason that lights "already" have had a speed nerf from TT values.

[Varent]

Noesis, on 05 January 2014 - 08:53 PM, said:

Well if they were spread out with volley size or range then presumably they may have a place in MWO. Again values can be changed to protect the innocent here.

Just like clans really with the idea of changing their weapons to balance them more with IS tech.

But this since we can identify that these would be potentially OP with the twitch FPS mechanics we have currently.

Again this then presumably the existing reason that lights "already" have had a speed nerf from TT values.

AHH but they are still using there speed to too much of an advantage incoporating the natural miss chance that you can incur with high speed. Just as players are incoporating twitch mechanics, both things that are part of a FPS however if we want to make it less like that we should change both.

Obviously this means we need to slow down mechs until you no longer need natural twitch type concepts to hit them

[Noesis]

Varent, on 05 January 2014 - 08:56 PM, said:

AHH but they are still using there speed to too much of an advantage incoporating the natural miss chance that you can incur with high speed. Just as players are incoporating twitch mechanics, both things that are part of a FPS however if we want to make it less like that we should change both.

Obviously this means we need to slow down mechs until you no longer need natural twitch type concepts to hit them

Not if the problem is seen as an advantage with those weapons in the first place. Remeber this is to correct a problem with the ballistic weapon effectiveness. So if you make those changes indirect it makes other weapons even more effective also against lights, ergo, exacerbating the issue by making things even more imbalanced for other things. So how do you counteract that imbalance since Lasers, SRMS, LRMs would all be more capable as well as other Mechs being able to Persue lights at the same time. And reducing their capability to gain battlefield awareness which is their primary role in the game.

The negatives would outweigh the positives for that change to lights and would not be any presumptive correction at all.