85 replies to this topic

[Damocles69]

You can not pop tart as effectively with large lasers as you can with ppcs+balsitics. As such, with the current design of the game, laser boating will always be inferior to poptarting. Raising the large and medium laser cap will allow another form of play to be semi-viable at top tier, tournemnt levels of play

[Joseph Mallan]

The DEVs did not think through their Ghost Heat limits to well as many Mechs carry more than their knee jerk response to Alphas!

[Karl Streiger]

so to adress poptarting is to adress ghost heat?

Ok this solution would be typical for PGI - why to choose the simple direct way - when you can choose multiple alternative paths....
why not to increase the forward trust of JJs and reduce the upward trust....when you want to climb 6m in height your mech must have moved 15m in direction of thoes guys that are eager to clutch your Mechs ankle and drag you down to place a fist into your cockpit, while there Defiance Killer spills the guts of your mechs

Edited by Karl Streiger, 11 December 2013 - 07:10 AM.

[Damocles69]

Joseph Mallan, on 11 December 2013 - 07:06 AM, said:

The DEVs did not think through their Ghost Heat limits to well as many Mechs carry more than their knee jerk response to Alphas!

Agreed. Additionally i think mediums should be capped at 8 but hey... NEW mech next patch...
#dumb

[Kaeb Odellas]

Or they could eliminate ghost heat altogether and replace it with a system that isn't stupid.

[Mechteric]

3 would also be acceptable, anything but 2.

[Fut]

Kaeb Odellas, on 11 December 2013 - 07:26 AM, said:

Or they could eliminate ghost heat altogether and replace it with a system that isn't stupid.

What a novel idea.
Somebody give this guy a Gold Star.

MWO needs a proper Heat Scale, with actual penalties to Mech performance as the heat climbs. It would solve quite a few of the ******** problems with this game.

[DONTOR]

I wold absolutely agree with three but 4 is just to many, compared to how other energy are capped. It especially gimps LPLs because its just one more reason not to use them IMO.

[divinedisclaimer]

Damocles69, on 11 December 2013 - 07:04 AM, said:

You can not pop tart as effectively with large lasers as you can with ppcs+balsitics. As such, with the current design of the game, laser boating will always be inferior to poptarting. Raising the large and medium laser cap will allow another form of play to be semi-viable at top tier, tournemnt levels of play

As someone who regularly does 500+ damage with only 4 LL's (two are ERLL's!) you have seriously no idea what you're asking for.

Bottom line? Lasers are harder to use than ballistics, so you think they need buffed. Handled correctly, they're perfectly fine.

I do agree the cap could be 3 without breaking anything, but making it 4 would be pointless: that's as many as you can ever use in the first place.

Edited by divinedisclaimer, 11 December 2013 - 07:41 AM.

[OznerpaG]

i don't consider an extra 3.5 heat much of a deterrent from firing 3 LLas at once if you really wanted to. it's unfortunate, but hardly a deal breaker

[Damocles69]

divinedisclaimer, on 11 December 2013 - 07:40 AM, said:

As someone who regularly does 500+ damage with only 4 LL's (two are ERLL's!) you have seriously no idea what you're asking for.

Bottom line? Lasers are harder to use than ballistics, so you think they need buffed. Handled correctly, they're perfectly fine.

I do agree the cap could be 3 without breaking anything, but making it 4 would be pointless: that's as many as you can ever use in the first place.

Gasp! I've discovered! I am well aware that 4 is the most one can realistically use. The reason I suggest this number is because GHOST HEAT SHOULD NOT EXIST IN THEE FIRST PLACE. However, I honestly don't think it is going anywhere for a long time because the devs are, for the lack of a better word, well dumb. As such I suggested a number that basically males ghost heat a non-factor

[Khobai]

Quote

GHOST HEAT SHOULD NOT EXIST IN THEE FIRST PLACE

This.

[Trauglodyte]

Ghost Heat, while clunky, is doing its job. But, what Damocles is asking is more trouble than he or anyone else is thinking. We already went through the 4+ Lrg Laser builds before the PPC/AC meta ran rampant. What you're seeing her is someone that wants to boat weapons so that they have the best of all worlds but without the penalty. It is another case of people trying to get away from the frankenmech design which should be the staple of the game, outside of a few builds.

As an aside, I'm not against bumping the Lrg Laser limit up to 3. But 4 is too many and this is why:

Md Laser - 5 damage, 4 heat
Lrg Laser - 9 damage, 7 heat

Now, working in a vaccum and assuming that you have the tonnage available, 4 Lrg Lasers (36 damage, 28 heat) is essentially the same as 8 Md Lasers (40 damage, 32 heat). As such, you'd be going above the predetermined GH level on Mediums at 6. So, bumping the GH level for Large Lasers up to 3 would be the same while allowing builds to expand. They could, then, up the amount of additional heat gained beyond 3 to being something a bit stronger to deter the craziness. Works out in the end and that is a good thing.

[Hastur Azargo]

In a game with dynamic heat cap raised by heatsinks, GH should exist to prevent massive alphas. If you didn't complain about heat limit being raised by heatsinks back when it was done, it's pointless to complain about GH now.

Also, divinedisclamer is so modest as to not mention his own vid from Barracks section. This is how you use 4LLs (and unless you're a cheesemaster powergamer, you'd hardly want more), and this is why I chuckle every time I hear anyone complain about GH (especially in relation to lasers). Did you guys even try to avoid it by spacing your shots by those 0.5 secs? Do you realize how easy it really is?

All GH really did was prevent people from firing many big weapons at once, encouraging them to chainfire, which, I hear, was the name of the game in all MW games with set heat limit of 30.

[Damocles69]

Damocles69, on 11 December 2013 - 07:15 AM, said:

Agreed. Additionally i think mediums should be capped at 8 but hey... NEW mech next patch...
#dumb

Azargo, on 11 December 2013 - 08:09 AM, said:

In a game with dynamic heat cap raised by heatsinks, GH should exist to prevent massive alphas. If you didn't complain about heat limit being raised by heatsinks back when it was done, it's pointless to complain about GH now.

Also, divinedisclamer is so modest as to not mention his own vid from Barracks section. This is how you use 4LLs (and unless you're a cheesemaster powergamer, you'd hardly want more), and this is why I chuckle every time I hear anyone complain about GH (especially in relation to lasers). Did you guys even try to avoid it by spacing your shots by those 0.5 secs? Do you realize how easy it really is?

All GH really did was prevent people from firing many big weapons at once, encouraging them to chainfire, which, I hear, was the name of the game in all MW games with set heat limit of 30.

Or we could just have a rational heat scale... just a thought

[Joseph Mallan]

Damocles69, on 11 December 2013 - 07:15 AM, said:

Agreed. Additionally i think mediums should be capped at 8 but hey... NEW mech next patch...
#dumb

And this is supposed to mean what? There are several heavy Mechs that come stock with 3 Large Lasers. Ghost Heat was a response to pin point Alpha damage. So instead of fixing the Pin Point they screwed with Canon design to stop a customizing problem

How fast would this explode due to Ghost heat?

That is
#dumb.

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 11 December 2013 - 08:17 AM.

[Damocles69]

Also, 40pt alhpas have not gone anywhere. Instead they are restricted to chassis that can run AC20+ppcs. This suggestion allows other mechs to get on that level increasing variety. Moar options moar better

[Damocles69]

Joseph Mallan, on 11 December 2013 - 08:16 AM, said:

And this is supposed to mean what? There are several heavy Mechs that come stock with 3 Large Lasers. Ghost Heat was a response to pin point Alpha damage. So instead of fixing the Pin Point they screwed with Canon design to stop a customizing problem

How fast would this explode due to Ghost heat?

That is
#dumb.

I agree with you. I am simply suggesting an option that will work with the abortion that is ghost heat in game. I honesrlt don't see it ever leaving because creating a better heat scale would require work. We have all seen how much PGI loves to work instead of coming up with band-aid solutions

[MustrumRidcully]

I am sorry, that can't be done. Only during phases of aggressive weapon balancing, changes to the itemstats.xml are allowed. It's impossible to determine if this wouldn't utterly break the game without intensive testing.

They probably have only one copy of XML Spy and are not allowed to install their own text editors.

Edited by MustrumRidcully, 11 December 2013 - 08:29 AM.

[Trauglodyte]

You still haven't explained why 4 is the right number. 3 sounds right along with an increase in the Ghost Heat tax (done because they expanded the number), especially given the fact that Lrg Pulse Lasers are also grouped with regular Large Lasers.