34 replies to this topic

[Will9761]

How would clan players obtain Clan Mechs other than doing trials? Since the Clan don't use money like C-bills, there could be two options I can think of: as far as I know lorewise, you could use Kerensky to pay for items like how the merchant caste does or it could be done MW2 styled with honor points. What could clan currency become for people joining the Clans?

Edited by Will9761, 11 December 2013 - 08:51 AM.

[CyclonerM]

Honor points, quiaff?

[Will9761]

I guess so, maybe Kerenskies would be the MC for Clan items.

[Arcadies]

Do Clanners even own their own Mechs? I was pretty sure that all martial assets belong to the Touman.

[ChapeL]

Honor or prestige would fit ... "You have earned enough honor/prestige to be allowed the use of these mechs"

MCs are just MCs however

[Tannhauser Gate]

Hmmm How then?

Honor points earned by:

Defeating more opponents with less assets agreed to in offline batchall (tallied by victories over superior numbers / tonnage)
Acquiring bondsmen (tallied as those who leave their faction to join your clan)
Taking bases or planets or regions in the name of your Clan (tallied within Community Warfare's planetary conquest)

Ideas?

[CyclonerM]

LakeDaemon, on 11 December 2013 - 11:16 AM, said:

Hmmm How then?

Honor points earned by:

Defeating more opponents with less assets agreed to in offline batchall (tallied by victories over superior numbers / tonnage)
Acquiring bondsmen (tallied as those who leave their faction to join your clan)
Taking bases or planets or regions in the name of your Clan (tallied within Community Warfare's planetary conquest)

Ideas?

respecting Zellbrigen

In absence of a Zellbrigen system, i would reward kill (most damage done to an enemy) and subtract honor for assists (this would help preventing shooting to a 'Mech and then jump to another one to get the biggest rewards) plus victory and resources, of course.

Anything else is likely to be too complicated to be understood/accepted by the casual pugs.

[FireSlade]

CyclonerM, on 11 December 2013 - 11:52 AM, said:

respecting Zellbrigen

In absence of a Zellbrigen system, i would reward kill (most damage done to an enemy) and subtract honor for assists (this would help preventing shooting to a 'Mech and then jump to another one to get the biggest rewards) plus victory and resources, of course.

Anything else is likely to be too complicated to be understood/accepted by the casual pugs.

A good idea but they system would have trouble understanding the difference between a true multiple people attacking 1 mech and somebody else shooting that enemy early in the match and the Clanner following Zellbrigen with 1 on 1 combat. Further compounding it would be if you were fighting 1 on 1 honorably and someone else jumps in and starts attacking your target. I am all for a system that rewards honorable combat and punishes dishonorable actions but that might be a bit too much to ask from the MWO system.

[CyclonerM]

FireSlade, on 11 December 2013 - 01:02 PM, said:

A good idea but they system would have trouble understanding the difference between a true multiple people attacking 1 mech and somebody else shooting that enemy early in the match and the Clanner following Zellbrigen with 1 on 1 combat. Further compounding it would be if you were fighting 1 on 1 honorably and someone else jumps in and starts attacking your target. I am all for a system that rewards honorable combat and punishes dishonorable actions but that might be a bit too much to ask from the MWO system.

My system does!
You get the kill reward if you are the player who does the highest damage to target X. Say if you do 100 damage to target X, your team mate jumps in and finishes your target doing 40 damage, you will get the kill reward; your teammate has scored an assist and it will be punished with a reduction of his earnings (because Clan honor!).
So you want to pick your own target and "in this solemn matter, let no one interfere".

[Kadix]

CyclonerM's plan would also promote kill stealing, and reward bad marksmanship.

Picture this:
1. A Kit Fox is dueling an Atlas.
2. The Kit Fox is slowly chipping away at the Atlas's rear CT.
3. A PUG Timber Wolf sees the Kit Fox target lock, and splatters useless LRM damage all over the Atlas's front.
4. The Kit Fox finishes destroying the Atlas, entirely with accurate Rear CT fire.
5. The Timber Wolf gets credit for the kill, because it did the most damage to the Atlas (even though the damage was inconsequential front armor damage).

Edited by Kadix, 16 December 2013 - 04:57 AM.

[CyclonerM]

Kadix, on 16 December 2013 - 04:53 AM, said:

CyclonerM's plan would also promote kill stealing, and reward bad marksmanship.

Picture this:
1. A Kit Fox is dueling an Atlas.
2. The Kit Fox is slowly chipping away at the Atlas's rear CT.
3. A PUG Timber Wolf sees the Kit Fox target lock, and splatters useless LRM damage all over the Atlas's front.
4. The Kit Fox finishes destroying the Atlas, entirely with accurate Rear CT fire.
5. The Timber Wolf gets credit for the kill, because it did the most damage to the Atlas (even though the damage was inconsequential front armor damage).

Ok, a perfect system cannot exist.. My thought was to discourage kill stealing penalizing assists, but now you made me think about it.. I could say a Kit Fox could destroy the Atlas fast enough, the Timberwolf could miss his shots..

Ding! Idea. Let us try to add this little condition: when a 'Mechs hits a 'Mech for the first time, he starts duel mode. It is well highlighted in the HUD. Every other Clanner who shoots the 'Mechs currently in duel mode will get a penalty for each point of damage delivered.
It is not perfect yet but probably better. Thoughts?

[CyclonerM]

Marack Drock, on 16 December 2013 - 07:37 AM, said:

Its not really a dual mode though unless there is a batchall. Now if there was Zellbrigen then this could work according to the Trial rules.

I tried to keep it as easy and quick as possible, casual pugs do not want to play be the rules nor to declare a batchall before a duel..

[Kadix]

CyclonerM, on 16 December 2013 - 05:56 AM, said:

Ok, a perfect system cannot exist.. My thought was to discourage kill stealing penalizing assists, but now you made me think about it.. I could say a Kit Fox could destroy the Atlas fast enough, the Timberwolf could miss his shots..

Ding! Idea. Let us try to add this little condition: when a 'Mechs hits a 'Mech for the first time, he starts duel mode. It is well highlighted in the HUD. Every other Clanner who shoots the 'Mechs currently in duel mode will get a penalty for each point of damage delivered.
It is not perfect yet but probably better. Thoughts?

Ok, that would be awesome.

Might need to have some way to handle it when an sphereoid decides to start a fight with multiple clanners, and maybe something to factor out accidents (like one cluster in an LB-X blast hitting the wrong mech), but having the UI track who you're fighting and who's fighting someone else would be great.

*cough* PGI, you're reading this, right? *cough*

[FireSlade]

Marack Drock, on 16 December 2013 - 03:18 PM, said:

I know which is why Zellbrigen will never work. So it won't be implemented at all meaning Lore is violated heavily. Zellbrigen is how the I.S. wins on Tukayyid, and against Jaguars. Imagine a player who's never heard of Zellbrigen suddenly forced to play by its rules when Tukayyid or Smoke Jaguar end comes. It won't be good. So either we always play with Zellbrigen and honor rules or we never do and violate Lore in major ways.

Zellbrigen did not win Tukayyid all the IS did was use it to their advantage by playing dirty and causing chaos within the clans that they exploited. What won Tukayyid was attrition. IS forces had more numbers, better ammo supplies and were fighting for a drawn out campaign that they were used to fighting and good at. The clans are used to blitzkrieg style fighting thus supplies were less of an issue when fighting other clans that followed the batchall and once the objective was me the fighting was over with minimal waste. So what ensued on Tukayyid was akin to what happened in WW1 when forces were forced to fight with new tactics that they were not accustomed to. As for the Smoke Jaguars (never liked them) their command was full of arrogant officers that really had no clue that the IS knew where their homeworld was or that it was even possible for it to be attacked by anyone but another clan. To top it off Operation Bulldog had superior forces and were primarily attacking worlds that had freeborn and solahma troops with 2nd line mechs and equipment. Again IS troops using foreign tactics against the clans and winning; because clanners do not sneak up behind their enemies and slit their throats.

[Hythos]

Zellbrigen would work just fine.

With great power, comes great responsibililty.

Present the concept via a tutorial. Penalize for not followig guidelines.

Balance, and system-function altogther.

Honor is the key.

[FireSlade]

Marack Drock, on 16 December 2013 - 09:01 PM, said:

Dude that's what I meant. If Zellbrigen didn't exist for the I.S. to use the Clans would have no honor and just wipe them out! Zellbrigen was a key element to win. If Clanners had no Zellbrigen then it would be cutthroat tactics. If the Clans had no Zellbrigen laws to follow and uphold then how could the I.S. possibly beat 20 Clans (As they would have then all attacked as no rules kept the others at bay)?

Ok you got me there, their honor did come in the way of their victory.

[The Boneshaman]

why not just keep it as is. use Cbills just like every one else. your only clan becuse you clame to be. no need to make more work for PGI by trying to make a whole new currency system becuse you changed to Klan oops Clan. besides what are you clanners going to do with the IS mechs and Cbills you have? sell the mechs than what about cbills will they be transferd over and what if the clan you are playin with ****** you off and you decide to change to an IS faction will your money chang? just leave it as is use cbills no need to make this mor complicated than it needs to be.

[Kadix]

The Boneshaman, on 16 December 2013 - 09:41 PM, said:

why not just keep it as is. use Cbills just like every one else. your only clan becuse you clame to be. no need to make more work for PGI by trying to make a whole new currency system becuse you changed to Klan oops Clan. besides what are you clanners going to do with the IS mechs and Cbills you have? sell the mechs than what about cbills will they be transferd over and what if the clan you are playin with ****** you off and you decide to change to an IS faction will your money chang? just leave it as is use cbills no need to make this mor complicated than it needs to be.

The clans did you the older (Star League era) IS mechs for second line (garrison) units, even though the front lines were all modern omnimechs.

I'd like to see a system where Omnimechs were maintained with a new currency, and second line mechs for lesser prestigious/honorable units are maintained with cbills. Maybe add a third mech bay ("Trial", "Owned-Inner Sphere", "Owned-Clan").

If they keep the same currencies for clan mechs as we have for Inner Sphere, there are going to be plenty of guys who simply max out their clan mechs the moment they arrive. I already have enough GXP to master two variants and finish tier2 on a third, and in six months I'll probably have more cbills than I'll ever need.

[CyclonerM]

The Boneshaman, on 16 December 2013 - 09:41 PM, said:

besides what are you clanners going to do with the IS mechs and Cbills you have? sell the mechs than what about cbills will they be transferd over and what if the clan you are playin with ****** you off and you decide to change to an IS faction will your money chang? just leave it as is use cbills no need to make this mor complicated than it needs to be.

I would say lock them or restrict access to OmniMechs to the players above a certain level (and if you switch from an Inner Sphere to a Clan faction your level should be back to 0 because you become just a Bondsman) and before you reach it you are forced to use IS BattleMechs (no IIC variants but the concept is still there).

[sj mausgmr]

It will be cbills.

That's why those packaged mechs have a cbill bonus.