7768 replies to this topic

[jozkhan]

Well I gotta admit I didnt expect that...

With the Clan Launch 'on fire' for days now they come out and double down on the bad news and alot of it.

All previous delivery dates scrubbed, community warfare put back another year, game to relaunch in a years time.

PGI / IGP must want MWO to fail, there is no explanation.

And I wouldnt put words into Microsofts mouth if I were you. protip

oops wrong thread

Edited by jozkhan, 16 December 2013 - 08:26 PM.

[AntiSqueaker]

Kunae, on 16 December 2013 - 08:19 PM, said:

Well, you better go out and buy 10 of those Golden Khans then... right away! What are you waiting for?!

It's this sort of mentality that has killed this game. By spending money on it, even after they make these idiotic decisions, and display real contempt for the community, you are effectively praising them and reaffirming that they are on the right path. Your words are meaningless to them.

Only your wallet and your play-time have any value to PGI.

Oh yeah, I forgot it's impossible to wish for this game to get better and succeed. Sorry for breaking the "PGI sux #NOPE" circlejerk that's been beaten to death for the past 300 pages.

[FerretGR]

"everyone reading this knows somebody with a $20,000 collection of Magic the gathering cards and single cards worth huge amounts."

No, I don't. And if you're using real-world collectible goods and their prices to justify the outrageous prices you're charging, your head is in the clouds. Those things are apples and oranges. Firstly, collector prices are based on supply and demand... there are limited numbers of these things (not artificial limits set by the vendor... there are theoretically an infinite number of gold mechs, there's no limit on how many CAN be made, only on how many you WILL make). Not to mention once they're bought, they can be resold: their worth is not artificially set by some vendor (ie. you), it's controlled by the market. They have some lasting value outside of this game: there is no theoretical limit to their usefulness (they could be passed down like any collectible). They are tangible goods. They actually exist. Apples and oranges.

And even magic cards are reduced in price when bought in bulk. You get a good per-card price when you buy a pack or a set or whatever. One mech? $10 apiece. 100 mechs? $10 apiece.

Come on. Please do better than "there exist expensive hobbies, so we're making this an expensive hobby." This game is not the Lamborghini of gaming, and it shouldn't be priced like it is. I love this game, but it's at best a Kia or something. As hobbies go, this isn't wine tasting or cigar aficionado-ing, it's* stamp collecting or birdwatching. Somewhere along the line you guys got a big head, PGI/IGP, and you think you're producing a gold-plated product. You've got to be more self-aware.

*ETA: I found a better example. You're not wine tasting, you're pig wrestling.

Edited by FerretGR, 16 December 2013 - 08:49 PM.

[FreeZe]

Well Russ's command post pretty much said the same ole thing. It sounded a lot like the pitch that got me to buy into the Founders package. It sounded a lot like what we were told months ago about UI 2.0. It sounded a lot like they think I'm freaking CRAZY! Who is going to wait another 6+ months for the features that would actually make this game have any worth again?

It is honestly too little and too late. In the time it will take them to bring things together, assuming they actually do, many better games will have hit the market. I really wanted MWO to succeed, but I see nothing but empty promises.

In this instance, PGI should have directly addressed the issue and apologized straight up. Instead they once again tried to dance around the issues and butter everyone up. NOPE!

[Zanathan]

To be fair at least they are more honest this time around.

I do feel like the full blown CW, with the IS map, planets, etc will need another year at PGI's pace so anything in 6 months is a pipe dream.

Given it's another full year ... I don't think I can last that long

[Ac3]

Razor Kotovsky, on 16 December 2013 - 07:46 PM, said:

Look, another alt! So cute :3

Saying that does nothing to invalidate his opinions.

[Drenaline]

Actually we have been on the "PGI sux #NOPE" circlejerk since closed beta. Not 300 pages.

[Zanathan]

On top of that, clan invasion? Is it actually an in game event or another one of the LAN parties? (sigh)

[shintakie]

Quote

As to the general pricing of the Clan packages I think we tried pretty hard to make these packages of very similar value to both the founders and Phoenix packages. In particular I think the Phoenix packages were perceived to be of high value and if we compare directly to them the summary would look something like this:

What was that I said earlier? You all brought this on yourselves by payin PGI over and over and showin them that they could get away with ridiculous business practices like chargin 240 dollars for mechs.

Quote

Feb 4^th – UI 2.0 released

Might as well tack on an extra 3 months to that.

Quote

March 4^th – DX11

Outright statin the feature has basically been complete since the test, what, a month ago? Yet withheld it for reasons.

Other fun facts. Earliest approximation for Community Warfare is 6-9 months from now. Again we've been told Community Warfare is just 6 months away! How excitin! This only marks the fourth time we've been told that.

They're tryin to play off the higher prices as stickin with the lore of Clan tech bein more expensive when they're outright changin it so its not more powerful. Why are they more expensive if they're not more powerful? Because reasons.

Here's a fun one. PGI will actually deliver on a target date! Achievements are set to come out in March. Guess when they said they'd launch? In March. They just got the year wrong.

Edit - Why does PGI have more people workin on maps, mech models, skins, cockpit items, and champion mechs compared than engineers when they outright state that those engineers are spendin their time between keepin the game runnin and feature development? Oh right, feature development doesn't give them those fat checks that hero mech sales give them.

Edited by shintakie, 16 December 2013 - 08:41 PM.

[Bacl]

AntiSqueaker, on 16 December 2013 - 08:15 PM, said:

For Kerensky's sake, reading this it seems like most of you want this game to fail, if no other reason so you can feel vindicated and say "I told you sooo!"

I've put too much time and money into this game, and I want the best for it. I hope this timeline is kept. Even if I'm still upset about this whole deal, I hope PGI pulls through.

Well you want to enjoy the game but doesnt have to be with PGI, same game, different team ( keep art team!) would be so much better!

[RG Notch]

AntiSqueaker, on 16 December 2013 - 08:27 PM, said:

Oh yeah, I forgot it's impossible to wish for this game to get better and succeed. Sorry for breaking the "PGI sux #NOPE" circlejerk that's been beaten to death for the past 300 pages.

Wish hard, because you'll need it. That's probably how PGI operates.

[Codex Clavdex]

FerretGR, on 16 December 2013 - 08:28 PM, said:

"everyone reading this knows somebody with a $20,000 collection of Magic the gathering cards and single cards worth huge amounts."

No, I don't. And if you're using real-world collectible goods and their prices to justify the outrageous prices you're charging, your head is in the clouds. Those things are apples and oranges. Firstly, collector prices are based on supply and demand... there are limited numbers of these things (not artificial limits set by the vendor... there are theoretically an infinite number of gold mechs, there's no limit on how many CAN be made, only on how many you WILL make). Not to mention once they're bought, they can be resold: their worth is not artificially set by some vendor (ie. you), it's controlled by the market. They have some lasting value outside of this game: there is no theoretical limit to their usefulness (they could be passed down like any collectible). They are tangible goods. They actually exist. Apples and oranges.

And even magic cards are reduced in price when bought in bulk. You get a good per-card price when you buy a pack or a set or whatever. One mech? $10 apiece. 100 mechs? $10 apiece.

Come on. Please do better than "there exist expensive hobbies, so we're making this an expensive hobby." This game is not the Lamborghini of gaming, and it shouldn't be priced like it is. I love this game, but it's at best a Kia or something. As hobbies go, this isn't wine tasting or cigar aficionado-ing, it's stamp collecting or birdwatching. Somewhere along the line you guys got a big head, PGI/IGP, and you think you're producing a gold-plated product. You've got to be more self-aware.

I thought the same thing when I read that

N.O.P.E.

Edited by Codex Clavdex, 16 December 2013 - 08:35 PM.

[Ingvay]

Here's what My impression of Russ's post was:

PGI :This time we mean it... no we really, really, mean it. Not like all the other times..... we really, really, really, really, really mean it. Honest."

My response: Yea...N.O.P.E.

"18 Software Engineers working on content is not enough...."

N.O.P.E.

"We're not going to address the Clan Package pricing reactions from the community, if they don't like it they can ignore our obvious cash-grab."

N.O.P.E.

"We're looking at having Clan Invasion June 17th, but not having the Planetary Conquest or Battles for the Inner Sphere happen until somtime in the Fall of 2014...... you know after the Clans have invaded."

N.O.P.E.

"Confidence is very high that Community Warfare will be fully implemented by Fall" (Which will also be just in time for the next Inner Sphere Mech Package to be offered....)

Ummm..... sure thing.... N.O.P.E.

"We secured licensing rights and a lot of good things happened in MWO in 2013, and of course you may very well be in a position where you don't believe our estimates or timelines, we understand this."

Umm.... your right I don't and I won't until you meet a deadline, or three.... N.O.P.E.

Overall there is nothing to see here, except I now fully predict the demise of MWO, and not it's growth. I don't care if your feelings are hurt over hearing that we don't trust you Russ. We've been lied to far too many times to simply read your post and say "O.K. eveyrthing is gonna be just fine now."

N.O.P.E.

[Corwin Maxwell]

Pezzer, on 16 December 2013 - 05:12 PM, said:

....true. But most items of value can be resold for a partial recoupment of funds. In the case of most virtual items, this is not possible. When you buy an item in MWO, the value of said item literally goes from the price paid to ZERO (not including sentimental value).

Also, most items of value have to actually EXIST to be worth something. The only exception that I know of is a service. So I guess I'm buying the service of MWO dropping a Mech onto my account every time I buy a Hero? I don't think it took them a lot of time or effort to do that. Not 30 dollars worth when other Mechs of the same exact configuration are free, when taking into account the effort/money they put into making my Hero.

I hate how muddied economics gets. How can anyone stand being an Economist, living in a world full of real numbers and illusional values/futures/expectations? I see economics as being a terrible marriage between mathematics and philosophy. That sounds so terrible when you think about it, combining those two things...

By no means was i defending IGP/PGI or its Marketing bafoons, I was making the point that we as a whole need to stop putting value on this [scrap]. Thus showing it for what it is worthless nothing!

[Razor Kotovsky]

Ac3, on 16 December 2013 - 08:29 PM, said:

Saying that does nothing to invalidate his opinions.

/sarcasm

[Lon3Wo1f]

I haven't played for quite a while and it's in part due to the lack of any real advancement of the game. I played in closed beta, I got the top Founders pack as I was stunned at how good it was for that stage of the game. I look at things now and frankly, short of a few tweaks here and there and a few maps & mechs it's the same game. In fact there are some things missing that were part of beta that need to be back such as the much desired knockdown but I'm more partial to my Atlas' glowing eyes that you can see half a map away.

What happened to the grand vision? So many promises have come and gone, so many promises to learn from those mistakes have also come and gone and now we're left with lots of stick and no carrot. You've pushed away a lot of people that really love this franchise and they likely won't come back. I intended to come back when there was more on offer and I would have dropped money but if you (PGI) can't even stick to a promise to communicate better, repeatedly, what hope do you have of delivering content that you have failed on repeatedly?

"Oh, CW? That's coming..... sometime..... early stages.. but have a new Hero mech and some skins! Have we shown you the Phoenix and Sabre stuffs too?"

"UI 2.0? Early stages, public test but... look! More Hero mechs and skins to buy! If that's not enough we have clans now* too AND GOLD, GOLD MECHS! OMG THE BLING BLING!!!111

*available to buy now, not available until June at the earliest in game."

No more. It's time for a lot more carrot and a lot less stick if you hope to keep people playing and paying for this game, PGI. If nothing changes then I likely won't be back and I imagine a lot of people will do what I do which is look at what the forums are like to get a vague idea of the current situation, see nothing has changed and move on. It costs me nothing at all.

[Ingvay]

jozkhan, on 16 December 2013 - 08:25 PM, said:

Well I gotta admit I didnt expect that...

With the Clan Launch 'on fire' for days now they come out and double down on the bad news and alot of it.

All previous delivery dates scrubbed, community warfare put back another year, game to relaunch in a years time.

PGI / IGP must want MWO to fail, there is no explanation.

And I wouldnt put words into Microsofts mouth if I were you. protip

Yep.... I read Russ's post and left feeling more dissappointed. It's over...

[Star Witch Esperanza]

Razor Kotovsky, on 16 December 2013 - 08:24 PM, said:

Time shows it's better to stick to something than try to please everyone. Otherwise you'll have a **** game witch **** community and a **** reputation.

Oh thats absolutely true. But a new IP with a clean slate that didnt have such a huge division or was balanced for asymmetrical warfare at the start would still fare better than mechwarrior at the moment.

also there is the huge huge problem is that depending on the terms of your license, the people who own the IP can cause lot of back seat driving related problems with your game.

[Drenaline]

Have to go to bed but am curious how many pages will there be tomorrow when I check or if PGI will close the thread. Community has not been in this much of a uproar since closed beta announcement they were going live. Was a mistake then and this is a mistake now.

This is getting interesting but nothing will change.

[Razor Kotovsky]

Nephera, on 16 December 2013 - 08:41 PM, said:

Oh thats absolutely true. But a new IP with a clean slate that didnt have such a huge division or was balanced for asymmetrical warfare at the start would still fare better than mechwarrior at the moment.

also there is the huge huge problem is that depending on the terms of your license, the people who own the IP can cause lot of back seat driving related problems with your game.

That back seat driving was bonking the entire dev team across the head every time they tried to do something worthwile. There is no other explanation.

Edited by Razor Kotovsky, 16 December 2013 - 08:45 PM.