7768 replies to this topic

[Naskoni]

Praehotec8, on 18 December 2013 - 01:03 PM, said:

Unless the poster has proof of such deeds, it IS libelous writing, regardless of where it is placed. It doesn't matter which CEO, again, unless he has proof.

I am sorry, for starters I live on a different continent, second, I dont visit the types of parties where drugs are present and last, but not least, I do not associate with the type of ***holes meant here, so, no, proof will be hard.

Praehotec8, on 18 December 2013 - 01:03 PM, said:

Look, I'm not saying one shouldn't take issue with the game, I'm not saying one should spend more money, or that PGI shouldn't be held accountable to finish their project. All I am really saying is that rude, ignorant personal attacks have no bearing on any of this, and only serve to make all the posters here appear foolish and it undermines true criticism and attempts to encourage the game to develop in a meaningful way.

No problem, pal, if you were around as long as I and the other founders have been you'd know that the game isnt developing in any meaningful way since I became a founder. Unless you consider mech packages a "meaningful" development...

Praehotec8, on 18 December 2013 - 01:03 PM, said:

As to the game, to me, it FEELS right at a basic gameplay level. It's very gratifying on some visceral level when you blow off a mech's arm, or cripple it, and when you fire your weapons or are hit by autocannon fire. It just plays well, and even all the professional reviews thus far have noted that. What is missing is the overlying complexity and balance (which are huge issues). I personally think the game can be good...not the dream game everyone hoped for (if that was ever even possible to achieve), but good. I'm willing to see what happens, and can be convinced to spend again IF meaningful advances are made on schedule.

If not, this game made me a mechwarrior fan, and I'll be in line to support the next mechwarrior game.

Sure, thing is - the game FELT right at a basic level the very first time I fired it up in closed beta. Problem is - 200$ and year and a half later it doesn't feel any better. Actually, after some of the brainfart additions by the guy in my signature it feels worse. Looks better than back in the day though. Funnily enough I had more fun back then than I do now... Go figure.

Even if I get it why you find my "approach" wrong I no longer give a rat's *** about it - you will comprehend the bitterness and the hate given enough time and money invested into this pathetic company. Trust me on that.

[Praehotec8]

Naskoni, on 18 December 2013 - 01:58 PM, said:

1.) I am sorry, for starters I live on a different continent, second, I dont visit the types of parties where drugs are present and last, but not least, I do not associate with the type of ***holes meant here, so, no, proof will be hard.


2.) No problem, pal, if you were around as long as I and the other founders have been you'd know that the game isnt developing in any meaningful way since I became a founder. Unless you consider mech packages a "meaningful" development...

3.) Sure, thing is - the game FELT right at a basic level the very first time I fired it up in closed beta. Problem is - 200$ and year and a half later it doesn't feel any better. Actually, after some of the brainfart additions by the guy in my signature it feels worse. Looks better than back in the day though. Funnily enough I had more fun back then than I do now... Go figure.

4.) Even if I get it why you find my "approach" wrong I no longer give a rat's *** about it - you will comprehend the bitterness and the hate given enough time and money invested into this pathetic company. Trust me on that.

1.) If you don't have proof, then you are deliberately writing misleading and demeaning information about a person. This is Libel, bottom line.

2.) Since your account name says it has been active since 9/2012 (I joined 10/2012), you have a whole 1 1/2 months extra time here. I think I've been here long enough to see the debacle of the development process. It HAS been bad, no questions, that's not what I am arguing.

3.) Game feels about the same, except perhaps slightly better balanced. As to meaningful changes...well, that's open for debate. Do you have less fun now because the game is worse, or because you've: A. Played it for over a year, and B. Are bitter about it not being the second coming of MW2?

4.) If you hate it then you should move on. Being angry is fine, but spilling bilious personal insults at the developers is a waste of time, potentially illegal, and more importantly, it makes all the legitimate complaints seem like whining from people with personal vendettas.

Edited by Praehotec8, 18 December 2013 - 02:12 PM.

[Naskoni]

Praehotec8, on 18 December 2013 - 02:11 PM, said:

4.) If you hate it then you should move on. Being angry is fine, but spilling bilious personal insults at the developers is a waste of time, potentially illegal, and more importantly, it makes all the legitimate complaints seem like whining from people with personal vendettas.

I'll cut it short:

- you can only find it enjoyable only so long playing the same (rather bland) maps, doing the same thing. I got bored after a month or so (collectively)
- kudos for being there just as long and still being an optimist (I'd rather picture this as a type of diagnosis, but hey...)
- I paid 200$ and got practically nothing out of everything that was promised when I gave the money. INSTEAD I got blatant lies and treatment that implied I was a mentally ******** ***** with a bottomless credit card account. Since I cannot get neither my money back, nor the stuff I gave them for I choose to b!tch and b!tch I will. If you dont like it feel free to transfer 200$ to my PayPal account. I paid more than enough for the right to b!tch all I want, by the looks of it substantially more then you did, so *******...

[Blurry]

Canadian Attack Beaver, on 17 December 2013 - 06:47 PM, said:

Yup, and you get the privilege of having mechs with hardpoint customization for a 50% price increase over the Phoenix mechs! Yay!





Bolded for emphasis. The post then continues on to illustrate the points being looked at to balance Clan tech & weapons with IS tech & weapons.

all well and good but they stated that the reason they cost more is because they are better.
read russ statement.
no one is on the same page except buy buy buy
the rest well who cares?
Balance - we dont need no stinking balance we are MWO!

[Blurry]

anyone every think the reason the balance is so bad that it creates a condition to buy the higher end mechs.
That the reason the meta ect is the way it is - to sell as many assault mechs as possible?

Charge the most and make them the most viable and do nothing but encourage their usage ingame?

Weight limits would put an end to this and would cause an issue so there has been significant pushback and delay on it?

[Canadian Attack Beaver]

focuspark, on 18 December 2013 - 10:23 AM, said:

Emotional investment in the game? Not really. Seems to me that you're the one raging here, which would imply the emotional investment. As for defending "the company", I'm just putting myself in their shoes (with bills to pay, families to feed, etc) and thinking: what would I do? I find myself understanding their approach and while not happy with it, accepting it as viable and reasonable.

Right. So you're defending the company because you empathize with their situation and find a 50% price increase over previous packages reasonable. You also find their lack of progress on undelivered content reasonable. Gotcha.

focuspark, on 18 December 2013 - 10:23 AM, said:

Sorry mate; the example give said they might raise the heat generated and might make it weigh more. At no point did they nerf the LRM20 to the equivalent of IS LRM20. Go back, read again.

Please do. It's clear that they are doing their best to make the Clan tech different without making it better. Why not use the ER Laser example? Slightly better range, more heat and increased beam duration. Is that inherently a better weapon than the IS ER Laser? That depends on your preference, but his hardly lends support to your position that Clan tech is "better" regardless of how you subjectively measure it.

focuspark, on 18 December 2013 - 10:23 AM, said:

"Better" is subjective, but in this case it's hard to see how have significantly more flexibility isn't better. Sure, it means that it'll be easier to build crappy loadouts, but it'll be equally easy to build superior loadouts. This will make Clans more difficult to balance, but that's Paul's job (yes, he's mostly disappointing me as well but that's another discussion).

IS mechs have fixed hard points and maximum tonnage.
Clan mechs have fixed armor, engines and maximum tonnage.

How is that greater flexibility? It's a different type of flexibility, obviously, but I don't see how this is "better".

focuspark, on 18 December 2013 - 10:23 AM, said:

That is your assumption. It seems to be that Clan tech will be more expensive in game, and given the c-bill to $$ conversion PGI has done in the past the costlier Clan 'mech packs only make sense and are completely inline with what has come before. Again, if you don't find this to be a good deal: do not purchase it for $$.

At some point in the future all of these Clan 'mechs will become available ala cart for C-bills. Yes, you'll miss the premium variants but eventually a hero version will appear; and that too will be ala cart.

Your impatience and desire to own a specific 'mech is what is causing your frustration. Have patience or decide you don't care about that 'mech and you'll be fine; or fork of the money to purchase from the current package structure.

You're choice.

Not quite. I'm not impatient in regards to getting access to these mechs as the $240 isn't an issue if I wanted to spend that. My frustration is arising from the blatant price gouging PGI is doing with a fabricated excuse that "clan tech is more expensive than IS tech". This excuse blatantly ignores the fact they are doing away with the offsetting superiority of Clan tech that justified the higher price. I am also astounded at how many fanboys, like you, are jumping up to defend this ridiculousness and how blind your are to your own inconsistencies.

focuspark, on 18 December 2013 - 10:23 AM, said:

Reducing an argument to personal insults in the first sign that you're wrong. I recommend putting the keyboard down, taking a few deep breaths, maybe getting some sun shine (if you can find it).

No, it's a sign that I reached the end of my patience in dealing with your blatant inconsistencies. If you are not capable of discussing a topic using consistent and logical arguments, then go back to the kids table and leave this discussion to the adults.

focuspark, on 18 December 2013 - 10:23 AM, said:

I do not. If all of these things are available in game for purchase via in-game currency, then there is no "pay to win" model here. There is a pay for first access model and that's a standard for pretty much everything. PS4 is $399 today, in two years it'll be $299. Any given AAA title today is $60 but in 2-3 years will be for "name your price" on the Humble Bundle. A Lexus LS 2014 is US$75K today, a few years from now it'll be US$15K.

It's just a matter of patience. Unlike my examples, all of the MWO stuff will be for free and in a far shorter time span.

Patience. Realize and accept that the world does revolve around you, you are not important, nor does PGI owe you anything they haven't already provided you.

How about you bend over and shove your passive aggressiveness up your fanboy ********? I've never stated, nor implied, that PGI owes me anything. I asked a question, and would like a response, as to how they justify a 50% price increase over the Phoenix mechs (and a 100% price increase over the Sabre mechs) given that the performance of Clan tech is being normalized to IS tech in the name of game balance?

Let me type this out slowly for you since you are obviously unable to figure this out. If these Clan mechs launch in June and, assuming they are "better" than IS mechs, then there will be a 6 to 14 month period where non-paying customers will not have access to some of these mechs. Get that? A 6 to 14 month period where paying customers will have a significant advantage over non-paying customers.

I'm not making this point out of some impatience on my part; I am highlighting what reality will be if Clan mechs are, in fact, better than IS mechs. This is, by definition, a Pay-to-Win situation, even if it is only during that 6 to 14 month window. This could have a potentially disastrous effect on the non-paying population in this game. If you can't admit this, then you are either willfully ignorant or mentally challenged.

If Clan mechs are balanced such that they are NOT better than current IS mechs, but instead have different areas of customizability (as I anticipate will happen) then PGI's excuse for charging a 50% premium over previous mech packages is worthless.

To summarize, either we are going to experience a period where paying customers have a significant advantage over non-paying customers or else people are paying a 50% premium for mechs that will perform similarly to existing IS mechs. Both of these scenarios are bad business.

[Utilyan]

If your a Mechwarrior 2 fan and follow closely along the story line, the Mad Dog is the main character. (vulture).

He's the Dog not an "elite" Wolf. Timber Wolf is the mech told to be "wanted" but you don't get. Its the mech on the front cover.

That's why in the game they step all over you, your a scrub,a freebirth, a fleshy-headed mutant and wet-nose.

The wolves are marines, your just army dog. They are knights, you are just a grunt soldier.

And that is what made it so awesome.

So in a way, I'm completely relieved the Mad Dog is not part of the initial clan hype.

I'm also happy they are not pushing the TT-version of clans, the zelbrig "Mech Klingons".



Far as the balance how they worked in, I'd prefer if Mechwarrior Online creates the Canon rather then try to adhere to a canon.

Years from now "what went down" is going to be what we played here first rather then any book or lore.


Even Mechwarrior 2 is not considered canon, yet it is with out a doubt for me the complete identity of MechWarrior.

I'd love to see MWO just step up and say this is the way it is and how it works and tell everyone else who tries to dictate how it goes to F off.

If they want clanners to be weaker fine, if they want a whole new lore of clanners coming from a dimension or even being completely alien, that's fine. If they want clans to be a long dead lost tech mechs that are resurfaced and don't even exist, that's fine.

I think we should support them in what vision they have in mind rather then have them play to an appeasement that would still get frowned on even if they deliver it as requested.

[focuspark]

Canadian Attack Beaver, on 18 December 2013 - 03:19 PM, said:

<snip> TLDK (that's too long don't care)

Look, you quite obviously care a lot and are working under the assumption that you cannot possibly be wrong. You keep resorting to expletives, threats, and childish comments (damn near troll territory if you ask me). I'm absolutely allowed to believe what PGI is doing is not only OK, but actually makes sense. The fact that we disagree is actually none of your business.

In my opinion, PGI is not price gouging. As I understand it Clan 'mechs will be better than IS 'mechs ton-for-ton. You're correct for a very short time (1-8 weeks depending on how measure) those willing to pay for early access will have access to 'mechs that those not willing to pay won't have access to. If those 'mechs are mechanically better then so be it, the playing field will even out quickly as they release to the masses. At worst, 8 weeks isn't all that long; so it's fairly moot. If this is your biggest sticking point, then I really do not care.

Either way, I'm going to stop feeding the trolls now and just ignore you from here on out.

[SweetJackal]

I honestly doubt this will get read by anyone of any importance since I bet PGI has written off this thread as just a dump of vitriol feedback from people on an island. Being as I have been bothered lately to log into the website I might as well explain myself and my feelings as a player and customer.

The Clan Collections has me worried but not for the reasons you might think. The two big concerns are the release dates and Golden Mechs so I believe it's best to start with the one topic i have that is easiest to jump to conclusions to.

Golden Mechs- When I saw that I laughed at the page in pure contempt for the company, my knee-jerk reaction being a big fat "NOPE!" and leaving it at that. This formed not because of concerns over pay to win or mechanics or anything of the like. It formed because it feels like a sign that the Micro part of Microtransactions are being forgotten.

Mechwarrior is already a very expensive Free To Play Title. It uses Mech Bays to limit Mech Ownership then requires you to pump experience into 3 mechs in order to master 1. With the C-Bill Grind for newer players punishing the sale of mechs and mechbays requiring real money to expand, it feels like progress is artificially limited or gated by real world cash. Then we have Mechs which can cost up to $40 dollars, each. Then close to $10 for a skin per Chassis.

In most cases it felt as if the value for these digital items wasn't there at all. My Value For Dollar wasn't being met by these higher prices. It's one of the reasons why I did invest in Project Phoenix in the end, the total cost of it compared to what I was actually getting felt reasonable. The Hotrod Paintjob has real value as it is given to every mech, something that was an enticement alone, then getting a bundle of mechs in the range of $5 each.

The Clan Collections is the most expensive bundle on a per item basis that has been released outside of the Founders Pack. It follows up with that by building on the one part of the Phoenix Bundle that I hated, having to purchase the content of the lower end tiers to get the 'higher end' tiers. With a content package that massive not being able to pick what you want but rather having to pay for more clutter that you would never pay for otherwise further lowers the value for me, it was something I accepted for Project Phoenix as the only thing I didn't want was the Locust.

So with this Expensive Clans Collection that doesn't have value to me because of it's cost and structure, because Mechs in game are already expensive, because Paintjobs in game are very limited and with these $500 Golden Mechs now being offered it feels like the the game itself is getting more expensive. All of what was already Low Value to my dollar is getting worse and further pushing me away from being willing to spend more money on the game.

I have invested well over $200 dollars into Planetside 2 since I bought into it by the Alpha Squad Beta Access package. This is a game I don't play as often anymore but because of the way things were offered, that camos can be used over any character, that items migrated between characters and that Universal Cosmetic Items were put in, all with what I felt was a reasonable price point I was more willing to invest into the game and support it. High Value bundles further pushed at my wallet and I was more willing to bend to that.

I wasn't tricked and I do not regret spending a dime. With PS2 I feel that I have gotten good value out of what I spent.

MWO already feels like a situation of poor value right now and the future planned monetization of the game looks like that value, to me, is going to hit rock bottom. That my money isn't welcome as I'm wanting good return on digital goods for supporting the game.

My second concern with the Clan Packages is just how the Clan Mechs are going to be released. Right now we have a situation that is very different from Project Phoenix yet I fear they will be released in the same manner as Project Phoenix in terms of their MC/C-Bill counterparts.

The Clan Invasion is going to be creating a whole new batch of content that literally plays by it's own rules. The design is to keep things balanced, which will be tricky in it's own right but there will be a huge difference between "I don't have access to a C-Bill Battlemaster yet and I am fighting a team with Battlemasters" and "I don't have access to a C-Bill Madcat yet and I am fighting a team with Madcats." Clan Tech goes beyond being Just Another Mech and introduces it's own unique mechanics.

I am concerned that Clans Mechs will be trickled in at a slow rate after the Clan Collection Mechs get into the hands of those who paid for it. The obvious business reason why this would happen is simple, to promote the Clan Collection and get more players to buy into it. This design would have it be close to a year before the full Clan Collections is released to the public by C-Bill variants if we use the Project Phoenix Timeline and Rate.

The problem here is that the Clans are being designed to be more flexible and offer different options that are alien when compared to the IS choices. The concern here isn't balance, the concern is that we are going to be facing a massive chunk of flexibility and tactical options (And Unique Modules) that are going to be locked behind a paywall.

Flexibility in tactics and design is an advantage when your opponents lack that flexibility. No, we don't know how this is going to play out but I see a massive problem of "Pay To Win" existing if Clan Mechs are locked behind a Paywall for an excessive period of time. This is because Clan Heavies and Assaults will bring in their own meta for design and building and keeping C-bill variants of those pushed back will hurt the playing field, or atleast give a massive perception of it.

Though for everything I have ranted about I will give credit where it is due. I am glad that the Clan Collections is doing the one thing that the Phoenix Project did right. That is using the Prime Variant rather than a Hero Variant for giving the mech bonuses.

Setting up a Variant that has bonus C-bill, XP or other Boost bonuses that do not directly affect gameplay while having a C-bill version of that Variant without any of those boosts available is something that I love to see.

What I hate to see is a Unique Variant without any Carbon Copy Variant available for C-Bills. This is what the Hero Mech system is, it is locking unique loadouts behind a paywall, restricting flexibility by real money and it flirts so dangerously on the knife's edge of Pay To Win. All that needs to happen is one of these Paywall Locked Hardpoint Loadouts being the best option for Hardpoints and Tonnage for a build, for a Hero Mech to be the Optimized Choice for a role, weapon usage or Meta.

And Balance Problems in the game can only put in more extreme swings to that.

[Xeven]

I don't mind paying the $240 once a year for a set of mechs. Its basically paying $20 a month to play. What is stupid is Gold Mechs which is really just paint. Your paying 500 for a color. It is a farce they don't give the customer some value in that package like maybe through in the Masakari pacjk too..

[DoktorVivi]

Xeven, on 18 December 2013 - 04:41 PM, said:

I don't mind paying the $240 once a year for a set of mechs. Its basically paying $20 a month to play. What is stupid is Gold Mechs which is really just paint. Your paying 500 for a color. It is a farce they don't give the customer some value in that package like maybe through in the Masakari pacjk too..

Don't forget the suspiciously p2w-sounding 'exclusive modules!'

[Ryvucz]

Xeven, on 18 December 2013 - 04:41 PM, said:

What is stupid is Gold Mechs which is really just paint. Your paying 500 for a color. It is a farce they don't give the customer some value in that package like maybe through in the Masakari pacjk too..

If it's "stupid" to you, don't get it.

Unless of course you go around calling everything gold plated stupid, virtual content or not, then I think you have a serious personal issue.

DoktorVivi, on 18 December 2013 - 05:06 PM, said:

Don't forget the suspiciously p2w-sounding 'exclusive modules!'

More than likely a small loyalty bonus. A higher loyalty bonus item will probably end up being available to everyone.

[Chronojam]

Ryvucz, on 18 December 2013 - 05:39 PM, said:

If it's "stupid" to you, don't get it.

Unless of course you go around calling everything gold plated stupid, virtual content or not, then I think you have a serious personal issue.

Ryvucz, on 27 August 2013 - 02:28 PM, said:

I'm sticking around, can't wait to see UI 2.0.

I was hoping it would be tossed out today.

[focuspark]

SuckyJack, on 18 December 2013 - 04:17 PM, said:

I honestly doubt this will get read by anyone of any importance since I bet PGI has written off this thread as just a dump of vitriol feedback from people on an island. Being as I have been bothered lately to log into the website I might as well explain myself and my feelings as a player and customer.

<Snip>

And Balance Problems in the game can only put in more extreme swings to that.

I read it, I feel important I like your argument, but just for context and perspective I'd like to point to the US$900 Conquer Pack from Path of Exile, and to the US$10,000 Wing Commander Pack from StarCitizen. I'd also like to point out that StarCitizen isn't even playable yet; thus we have no idea of quality, balance, or developer responsiveness. PGI selling US$500 digital trophies actually isn't that bad.

For those who are willing to (and who can) purchase these things, great. The help fund a fairly fun game and I (we?) don't have to spend any (more) money on it to keep it going. Win-win if you ask me.

DoktorVivi, on 18 December 2013 - 05:06 PM, said:

Don't forget the suspiciously p2w-sounding 'exclusive modules!'

While I'll admit that these do have me concerned, until I know what the modules do I won't complain. For all we know they paint the game world in rose tint for the truly pimp and have impact on actual game play. Hell, if they're not useful they'll actually have paid for a negative affect on their game.

[Ghostchips Condensate I and II]

The thread makes me want to buy a gold mech. If i become rich that is. The reactions to observe.

Edited by Trashforged, 18 December 2013 - 06:16 PM.

[Kreisel]

Might actually be tempted if it were more like the founders pack and you could pick a mech you wanted instead of having to buy every single one from the bottom up just to get the one you want. I am willing to bet you would have a ton of people buy just the Timber Wolf/Mad Cat set if they could get it for less. You are cutting out a lot of potential buyers by lacking the flexibility for people to buy the ones they want. Sure you will have some people who will spend the extra money to buy the mechs they don't care about just to get they mech they want, but at these prices it is FAR more likely people will decide it isn't in the budget to get the one they want, so they wont buy any.

Personally I want a Ryoken/Stormcrow, and would pay the single mech price for it, why should I have to buy 4 other mechs to get it? Maybe I would even pay the 2 mech price for it an a Timber Wolf... but at $180 I simply can't afford it and I start thinking about all the things I could get with that money, like 4 to 5 entire games...

[focuspark]

Xeven, on 18 December 2013 - 04:41 PM, said:

I don't mind paying the $240 once a year for a set of mechs. Its basically paying $20 a month to play. What is stupid is Gold Mechs which is really just paint. Your paying 500 for a color. It is a farce they don't give the customer some value in that package like maybe through in the Masakari pacjk too..

While I would not spend US$500 on a paint job, there are those who will and who are happy to do so. Should PGI not meet the market demand and supply this product to demanding consumers? As for the consumer themselves, it's quite possible that they just love this game so much they're willing to just toss money at the screen; StarCitizen has been doing very well for itself on this model so far.

[MechFrog1]

My specific feedback can be found in this thread. Thank you for your time.

http://mwomercs.com/...ties-the-clans/

[Lyoto Machida]

Whatzituyah, on 18 December 2013 - 11:56 AM, said:

I don't really like the idea of community warfare though do we have a choice?

[RG Notch]

Whatzituyah, on 18 December 2013 - 11:56 AM, said:

I don't really like the idea of community warfare though do we have a choice?

Don't trouble yourself, you'll have months and months of the same old same old gameplay before we get the slightest bit of CW, so go buy something.