7768 replies to this topic

[Lupus Aurelius]

Imperius, on 21 December 2013 - 11:55 AM, said:

Nope to both just hate cheap people like so many on this forum. You don't "need" or "require" the pack or mechs offered to play so don't buy it and shut up and wait until it come out for free and you buy it with C-Bills...

You get three mechs one with a 30% boost and other stuff not yet announced! Again you do t have to pay. Eventually you'll get it for free.

Cheap people, like people on minimum wage, or college students trying to pay their own way thru college, or people with kids they have to care for before "toys" for themselves, or people, like me, that are retired and getting by on investments.

My grandparents grew up in the early 1900's, in Germany. After WWI, my grandfather told stories of people with wheelbarrows full of money that could not buy a loaf of bread. They lived in the USA during the Great Depression, and still even in the 80's reused Xmas wrapping paper. Lived in the same small house they bought in '39. And they had millions. Were they cheap? No, they learned the lesson that in order to have no financial cares, that one needed to be responsible and not squander resources. To their minds, what they had they had for the family, and not to be wasted. Would have made great Clanners...

More people nowadays could do with learning that lesson.

Edited by Lupus Aurelius, 21 December 2013 - 12:14 PM.

[DustyLoft]

Imperius, on 21 December 2013 - 11:05 AM, said:

Again quit complaining about the prices! You don't have to buy {Scrap}. You just have to wait longer for the mech! So put up or shut up! God!

The danger is, that the vast majority of players, with more sense than money, will wait. Only a minority of players, with more money than sense, will pay these exorbitant prices. Their contribution will be ultimately insufficient. The development & running cost budgets will dry up, and the game will cease to exist. People's precious $500 gold Mech's will be totally inaccessible.

[Imperius]

DustyLoft, on 21 December 2013 - 12:31 PM, said:

The danger is, that the vast majority of players, with more sense than money, will wait. Only a minority of players, with more money than sense, will pay these exorbitant prices. Their contribution will be ultimately insufficient. The development & running cost budgets will dry up, and the game will cease to exist. People's precious $500 gold Mech's will be totally inaccessible.

That's what premium time is for! $100 gets you one year worth. On par value with monthly biased games. If it's 100$ for 25,000 MC and 24,000 MC for essentially a year's subscription of premium time...that works out to $0.246 a day or around $8.33 a month right? Not bad, plus 1,000MC left over for a few mech bays.

Edited by Imperius, 21 December 2013 - 12:56 PM.

[Devari]

How do you not understand that we have already PAID LARGE AMOUNTS OF MONEY without RECEIVING THE GAME that we were promised?

You are inexplicably deluding yourself into comparing a game WITHOUT A WOKING BETA for any of the CORE FEATURES they advertised as being on par with a fully developed game with a massive number of players and fully developed content?

It's become a scam, plain and simple. They are taking your money and will not be giving us what they promised. It is really no different than the housing market crash. Pretend something has value on paper, manipulate finances when your ridiculous predictions don't match up with reality, and try to convince people you are selling something that still has value long after it has become clear you will NEVER deliver on those promises.

N.O.P.E.

[Corvus Antaka]

Lupus Aurelius, on 21 December 2013 - 12:11 PM, said:

Cheap people, like people on minimum wage, or college students trying to pay their own way thru college, or people with kids they have to care for before "toys" for themselves, or people, like me, that are retired and getting by on investments.

My grandparents grew up in the early 1900's, in Germany. After WWI, my grandfather told stories of people with wheelbarrows full of money that could not buy a loaf of bread. They lived in the USA during the Great Depression, and still even in the 80's reused Xmas wrapping paper. Lived in the same small house they bought in '39. And they had millions. Were they cheap? No, they learned the lesson that in order to have no financial cares, that one needed to be responsible and not squander resources. To their minds, what they had they had for the family, and not to be wasted. Would have made great Clanners...

More people nowadays could do with learning that lesson.

Since every mech in this pack is free eventually, the lesson is if you really can't or don't want to afford it, grind the cbills instead.

In my mind the gold mechs need MC attached & premium time.

ie 1 gold mech = $240 masakari pack + 120 days of premium time + 20,000 MC in example.

it seems to me to be wiser (if you are going to spend $500) to buy the $240 pack and then $260 worth of MC over a gold mech.

Aside from the goldness I suppose

[Matta]

After 352 pages of good comments, what more can I add ?

@PGI (and publisher - IGP):

- I won't argue about the prices of clan packs or golden "Mehs". I don't care to be honest and it's not relevant like the facts below:

- Current game state is not what you promised on the beginning and following months, when you happily took money from the Founders. White knights cannot debate about that. Simply, you failed and still failing.

- You made A LOT of promises, A LOT of deadlines. You broke those promises TOO MANY TIMES now. It ends here.

- After (roughly) $450 spent on MWO, I hereby promise I won't spend another nickel on this game if you don't start fast (not in 1 year, now) to deliver content you promised LONG time ago (CW, UI 2.0, DX11, VoIP, etc.) and (what's more important) start showing integrity.

Edited by Matta, 21 December 2013 - 01:36 PM.

[Imperius]

Matta, on 21 December 2013 - 12:53 PM, said:

After 352 pages of good comments, what more can I add ?

@PGI (and publisher - IGP):

- You made A LOT of promises, A LOT of deadlines. You broke those promises TOO MANY TIMES now. It ends here.

- After (roughly) $450 spent on MWO (easily verified), I hereby promise I won't spend another nickel on this game if you don't start fast (not in 1 year, NOW!) to deliver content you promised LONG time ago (CW, UI 2.0, DX11, VoIP, etc.) and (what's more important) start showing integrity.

Good that your right. Now quit posting over and over you're not going to spend money! It's like kids pitching fits...

[Devari]

It's not that we're not going to spend money Imperius. It's that we're not going to spend any MORE money. We have ALREADY SPENT HUNDREDS OF DOLLARS without getting the game we were sold.

How do you not understand this issue? I mean, really? After 352 pages you have trouble comprehending why people are angry with another money grab and no working game?

Edited by Devari, 21 December 2013 - 01:06 PM.

[MadcatX]

Devari, on 21 December 2013 - 01:04 PM, said:

It's not that we're not going to spend money Imperius. It's that we're not going to spend any MORE money. We have ALREADY SPENT HUNDREDS OF DOLLARS without getting the game we were sold.

How do you not understand this issue? I mean, really? After 352 pages you have trouble comprehending why people are angry with another money grab and no working game?

And there lies the problem.

You and folks who bought the PP are partially responsible. Have you been blind to the lack of development, the missed deadlines, etc, that was blatantly apparent?

That would have been the ideal time to say NO MORE MONEY UNTIL MORE CONTENT!

Were you deluded by hope, that maybe with more money PGI would do better? Or was the "value" of the bundle so good that content didn't matter several months ago?

I'm not saying that spending money on MW:o is bad, just the choice of when to stop spending with the intent to send the devs a message. Would have been better this summer then now.

[Matta]

Imperius, on 21 December 2013 - 12:59 PM, said:

Good that your right. Now quit posting over and over you're not going to spend money! It's like kids pitching fits...

I posted only once in this thread. I posted only once about money I've spent and my call that won't spend any more. I'll post whatever I feel like. If you don't like what I post I suggest you move along and stop making stupid comments. You'll do community a favor.

MadcatX, on 21 December 2013 - 01:24 PM, said:

And there lies the problem.

You and folks who bought the PP are partially responsible. Have you been blind to the lack of development, the missed deadlines, etc, that was blatantly apparent?

That would have been the ideal time to say NO MORE MONEY UNTIL MORE CONTENT!

Were you deluded by hope, that maybe with more money PGI would do better? Or was the "value" of the bundle so good that content didn't matter several months ago?

I'm not saying that spending money on MW:o is bad, just the choice of when to stop spending with the intent to send the devs a message. Would have been better this summer then now.

Personally, at that time, I gave them benefit of the doubt. But, I partially agree with you. If Phoenix pack flopped because of people refusal to buy until they deliver promised, things might have been different. But again, it may have also been their point of no return.

Edited by Matta, 21 December 2013 - 01:43 PM.

[Chronojam]

Imperius, on 19 December 2013 - 02:31 AM, said:

Good I'm glad he bought them all that means you guys can keep posting nope and we will get this game out.

Edit: PS How about you show your support or quit the complaints.

I like this part where Imperius implies that the only reason all the features are missing is because PGI didn't have enough money blindly thrown at them. Also you need to show your support or the devs might get sad and code slower, so only supportive posts are allowed.

[Devari]

I addressed that in another thread MadcatX, but I might as well summarize again. You literally have to be completely incompetent or corrupt to make a mechwarrior game fail. The basic idea has already worked for four major games (MW1-4), it already has a fully developed setting and a core fanbase spanning several DECADES. All the groundwork was already present, even a basic RULES SET from the tabletop game that has been successfully used for mechwarrior games with ALMOST NO MODIFICIATIONS. The developers could have literally given us MW4 with a great implementation of community warfare and it would still sell.

The only way they could have screwed up the situation would be to literally not give us the game they promised after taking all of our money.

That is LITERALLY what they did. They took the money but did not make the game.

Instead, we get ghost heat, modules, changes to CORE game mechanics and other problems that previous developers have had NO DIFFICULTIES implementing before but somehow have eluded PGI. They couldn't even give us a working standbox mech fps without screwing it up by forcing an artificial game balance with things like ghost heat because they knew the gameplay wasn't actually balanced at all and they could no longer cover it up.

After two and a half fundraising packages, we get ... another money grab and promises of a working game a FULL YEAR from now.

NONE OF THIS could have been predicted six months ago because we were being lied to and TOLD the game we paid for would be almost finished. When I bought my founders pack, and then the phoenix pack, I was betting on the successful history of the mecwarrior franchise and the promises of the developers that would have been EASILY achievable with any competent company. It was a reasonable expectation for a mechwarrior fan. It was not some completely new idea they had to sell us. They just had to come up with a working version of a mechwarrior MMO with the features they promised us. A poorly trained resus monkey could have probably succeeded at this, to be honest.

Blaming founders and phonenix package purchasers for having faith in a well-established brand that PGI has driven into the ground is so full of fail, I really don't know how else to explain this. They TOOK OUR MONEY but did NOT MAKE THE GAME.

And you are actually suggesting that it was somehow partially our fault for GIVING THEM MONEY to do a JOB that any halfway competent game developer could do.

Wow. Just, fail. Pure fail.

Edited by Devari, 21 December 2013 - 01:52 PM.

[MadcatX]

I don't have an issue with Founders, they made an upfront based on the information given at the time.

I do take issue with SOME (sorry, did not mean to generalize in my previous post) PP purchasers who are complaining about no money due to lack of content NOW, simply because it wasn't 5 months ago, it was only 2 months ago that PP officially ended. This is after 3PV, after Ghost Heat, after the lackluster launch.

You folks had ample opportunity to look at exactly which direction PGI was going with the Battletech IP, and instead of saying "yea.... they're not doing anything, I'd like a refund please (which some people did mind you)", you bought it.

It's not about having faith in a brand, it's about knowing the company that's working/publishing it. EA should have taught us all that lesson by now.

[Nimura Nekogami]

MadcatX, on 21 December 2013 - 01:24 PM, said:

And there lies the problem.

You and folks who bought the PP are partially responsible. Have you been blind to the lack of development, the missed deadlines, etc, that was blatantly apparent?

That would have been the ideal time to say NO MORE MONEY UNTIL MORE CONTENT!

Were you deluded by hope, that maybe with more money PGI would do better? Or was the "value" of the bundle so good that content didn't matter several months ago?

I'm not saying that spending money on MW:o is bad, just the choice of when to stop spending with the intent to send the devs a message. Would have been better this summer then now.

I grabbed my PP thinking it was limited (remember that they extended the offering time?) and at this point PGI didnt said that theyve done nothing on CW or cant finish UI 2.0.

Never thought that theyve done nothing.
I was starting to think they were incompetent and not unwilling to finish the game.

And yes.....at this time i thought it was an good offer and a way to support. Still think it wasnt extremely bad.
(as said many times....dont have a problem if a company wants to make money)

[Ghostchips Condensate I and II]

So everyone wanted 1 75 ton mech. Comes in a value pack of 7 prime with 14 variants (21) for $210. Might have to have OCD to see the numerical fun in that. Maybe i read too much into it.
Sorry i got distracted by the fact the kitfox has torso twist.

[Devari]

Well, I will agree that to some extent there were problems visible at the time the phoenix packages were still being promoted. But NOWHERE near the massive mess we have now. I mean they literally TOLD US the game was nearly finished, and the phoenix packages were supposed to be leading directly into launch. I was one of the early phoenix purchasers so it has been around six months since I bought my package. If I had ANY idea that this is how things would end up, I would have bought nothing. I don't consider it a great value to pay $230 to participate in 2 year beta test of a mech sandbox fps. And really I did not think any gaming company would be so incompetent as to tell us they only got the LICENCE renewed recently, and can START the development on core features that they should have been ALREADY FINISHED in working form by now.

Or to try selling us $500 gold mechs.

Or to try telling us UI 2.0 somehow prevents them from working on the ENTIRE REST OF THE GAME.

Or to suggest that they need ANOTHER FULL YEAR to deliver a working version of the game.

I mean, if I had ANY idea this is what we would be getting, it is the LAST game I would have spent any money on.

[MadcatX]

Nimura Nekogami, on 21 December 2013 - 02:18 PM, said:

I grabbed my PP thinking it was limited (remember that they extended the offering time?) and at this point PGI didnt said that theyve done nothing on CW or cant finish UI 2.0.

Never thought that theyve done nothing.
I was starting to think they were incompetent and not unwilling to finish the game.

And yes.....at this time i thought it was an good offer and a way to support. Still think it wasnt extremely bad.
(as said many times....dont have a problem if a company wants to make money)

I'm sorry you got burned. It's just that I feel that we as a community could have made a stronger message back then, and maybe, just maybe, the clans would have been pushed back if the folks in marketing saw that PP didn't work out too well because people wanted more content (VoiP, CW, UI 2.0, etc etc) before putting any additional money in the game.

Maybe it's because I've been here since near the start of CB (not sure how long you have, but being a founder you've been around for a while I assume) and have seen PGI's track record that made me think twice about PP. I agree with you in regards to supporting a game. But when PP came out, we didn't have VoiP, UI 2.0, CW... just the same deadlines that have come and pass since the game was in CB.

I'm not on the bandwagon of wanting to burn PGI at the stake. Heck, I don't even consider them liars, just really bad at making and sticking to a schedule.

If you dislike the clan bundle because of the price tag alone, or not believing it is worth it, that's fine.
If you dislike the clan bundle because the game is still missing some rather major components that should have come before the clan, yet still bought a huge PP bundle (which you could have refunded(, although the game was, at that time, still missing the same rather major game components, well this whole N.O.P.E. thing should have started back then, EVEN if it was a good deal.

Edited by MadcatX, 21 December 2013 - 02:54 PM.

[Gremlich Johns]

MadcatX, on 21 December 2013 - 01:58 PM, said:

You folks had ample opportunity to look at exactly which direction PGI was going with the Battletech IP, and instead of saying "yea.... they're not doing anything, I'd like a refund please (which some people did mind you)", you bought it.

Your statement is disingenuous. The Founders did not have any factual information with which to make an appropriate decision. They, and the rest of the player base, were ostensibly misled for well over a year. Additionally, it was just last week when the gaming community found out what PGI was not doing with the game.

FWiW, I don't care what the Clan packages costs are - non-issue. It's all the other stuff that has been put off for too long.

Edited by Gremlich Johns, 21 December 2013 - 03:12 PM.

[Haakon Valravn]

MMaceda, on 21 December 2013 - 06:23 AM, said:

PGI helped me max my credit card, Battletech is like nerd meth.

I hope that most of that maxing came from throwing money at Catalyst and Iron Wind.

[Icewraith]

Here is my feedback:

"Holy **** that's expensive"