7768 replies to this topic

[Mechteric]

Leprosyvirus, on 17 January 2014 - 11:57 AM, said:

Ugh are we going to be able to buy clanmechs with cbills or not? It's clear as day that PGI doesn't give a damn at all about there playerbase. It's as if this game is designed for "yacht club members" only now.

Its safe to assume it will be exactly like the Pheonix package, you're only buying early acces, the CBill purchasable versions will roll out one a month. For instance the Battlemaster should be coming next Tuesday for the masses.

[Samurai 7]

Trying to stay on topic here:

1. PGI, you shouldnt be selling mech packages. I think you would be better served selling tonnage. This way you can buy say a 500 ton package for $X and get what ever mech or mechs you want. If you want 3 MadCats, great, if you want 1 MadCat and 3 whatevers, fine. But let the consumer decide. Left over tonnage can be converted to MC or something. I understand the idea of selling packages. It gives preceeved value and so people are more likely to buy the bigger package and spend more. But the pricing just scares people off and if they dont want most of the package, they will just wait for One off pricing or Cbill.
2. All mechs in this game should be limited quantity. Or have open quantity for pre-order and then limited quantity post launch. This way mech's have real value since there would be scarcity.
3. A market place should be set up so you could sell said mechs for MC minus like a 5% commission. This way if i buy something and it sucks, im not stuck eating $30, i can recoup some of the cost and get something else.
4. (off topic) There should be no such thing as c-billionair. I mean, really, c-bills are pointless in this game because there is no scarcity. You can litterally launch, stand around browsing reddit and still get paid. There should be a 'fixed' drop fee to play a match. This would replace the idea of 'repair'; Losing a match should get you nothing. Run out a c-bills to drop, then pony up some MC and convert it over. Maybe 1MC=1M cbills and have the drop cost 250k or something; Im sure there is some smart accountant over there that could figure out a good blance. If you dont want C-bills; then maybe you have to 'enlist' for 10 matches and drive trial mechs. What ever it is, needs to change since there really is no economey in this game;

I belive this was one of the big draws to WoW; there was a concept of 'rare' items that only some could posess. That gave them 'value' and so people could take pride in their inventory and brag about it. Today, that is not the case with MWO. The only 'uniqueness' is if you want to paint your mech for $3; But mostly once people get the hang of it, most people all drive the same mech with the same loadout.

[Kell Commander]

No mech (or "discount" package of mechs) should cost more than $20. This game should be thriving off MICRO transactions, not charging as much for 1 Atlas as most companies charge for a new release blue-ray.

[Uncle Totty]

Samurai 7, on 17 January 2014 - 01:43 PM, said:

4. (off topic) There should be no such thing as c-billionair. I mean, really, c-bills are pointless in this game because there is no scarcity. You can litterally launch, stand around browsing reddit and still get paid. There should be a 'fixed' drop fee to play a match. This would replace the idea of 'repair'; Losing a match should get you nothing. Run out a c-bills to drop, then pony up some MC and convert it over. Maybe 1MC=1M cbills and have the drop cost 250k or something; Im sure there is some smart accountant over there that could figure out a good blance. If you dont want C-bills; then maybe you have to 'enlist' for 10 matches and drive trial mechs. What ever it is, needs to change since there really is no economey in this game;

I like everything but this. Pay-to-play? In a free-to-play game? Really? WTF?

[Nightfire]

Samurai 7, on 17 January 2014 - 01:43 PM, said:

1. PGI, you shouldnt be selling mech packages. I think you would be better served selling tonnage. This way you can buy say a 500 ton package for $X and get what ever mech or mechs you want. If you want 3 MadCats, great, if you want 1 MadCat and 3 whatevers, fine. But let the consumer decide. Left over tonnage can be converted to MC or something. I understand the idea of selling packages. It gives preceeved value and so people are more likely to buy the bigger package and spend more. But the pricing just scares people off and if they dont want most of the package, they will just wait for One off pricing or Cbill.

I know what you are saying but, really, they already are selling mechs by tonnage. Perhaps not in these bundles but everywhere else. Now while I don't have a problem with this concept for C-Bills, I do have a problem with it for MC. As an example: The Yen-Lo-Wang was the first Hero mech out the gates and it was ~$15 (MC conversion to $$). I was a little irked at how expensive it was but, I could deal with Hero mechs being $15 and purchased one. Then ... they got more expensive, the price was worked out on tonnage. Are you really going to tell me that the bigger mechs have that much more work put into them by the artists and modellers to justify THAT much of an increase in price!? This isn't in game currency and this isn't a C-Bill sink. It's real cash and prices don't need to be tied to in game mechanics! $35 for 1 in game avatar!? Normal games sell entire DLC expansions, let alone new in game characters, FAR cheaper than this! I never purchased another Hero mech again!

BAD idea!

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2. All mechs in this game should be limited quantity. Or have open quantity for pre-order and then limited quantity post launch. This way mech's have real value since there would be scarcity.

You mention WoW later on so I'm going to use that to illustrate my point here. Limited quantities? BAD! that literally creates Pay to Win! Even WoW doesn't do that. Scarcity (what you are after) is attained via difficulty. There are no limited numbers of "Fangs of the Father" or any other Legendary item. Anyone who puts the time and effort into attaining these items can have one. It's a very different thing to have something "incredibly difficult to attain" as opposed to "No! you can't have it! You should have put your cash up front sooner!" Both can create scarcity, your mechanism just locks people out and incites hard feelings (see the Gold Mech team killing threads).

Limited quantities = BAD idea!

Scaricty = Good idea! Isn't going to happen anytime soon though since MWO has 0 continuity. It is just a series of unrelated short matches. Clan weapons and mechs would have been good prizes here from salvage. Rare drops from fighting clan forces would create a scarcity that would be "difficult to attain" but anyone could have a shot at. This will never happen now since you can just purchase clan mechs and weapons.

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3. A market place should be set up so you could sell said mechs for MC minus like a 5% commission. This way if i buy something and it sucks, im not stuck eating $30, i can recoup some of the cost and get something else.

Nice idea. Hard to argue against, even if it was saddled with a 30 day pro-rata return or such.

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4. (off topic) There should be no such thing as c-billionair. I mean, really, c-bills are pointless in this game because there is no scarcity. You can litterally launch, stand around browsing reddit and still get paid. There should be a 'fixed' drop fee to play a match. This would replace the idea of 'repair'; Losing a match should get you nothing. Run out a c-bills to drop, then pony up some MC and convert it over. Maybe 1MC=1M cbills and have the drop cost 250k or something; Im sure there is some smart accountant over there that could figure out a good blance. If you dont want C-bills; then maybe you have to 'enlist' for 10 matches and drive trial mechs. What ever it is, needs to change since there really is no economey in this game;

I'll say straight up I was a fan of the repair and rearm option. It limited certain weapons and builds on the field simply through them being expensive to field and maintain. LRM boats didn't darken the skies because ammo was expensive! Assaults (well let's face it, Atlases back then) were far less common because armor was HIDEOUSLY expensive! You ran what you could afford to run. Lights were common as they were cheap to armor and repair. Lasers were common because they had no ammo (which could be very expensive) and mediums were a nice balance of cheap to buy and damage output.

PGI scrapped it and now Guass/Autocannons + PPC combos are everywhere! If people had to pay to repair, rearm and refit damaged/destroyed equipment you'd see far less of them!

While the effect of paying for a match is similar to repair/rearm, there is no connection between performance and consequence. In a repair and rearm environment, if I run low on cash I run my cheap, C-Bill maker lights. If I still run out, I know why I have to run repair/rearm free trial mechs. In a "pay to drop" system, if I'm a newbie who get's dropped against several teams of veterans in a row? I'm now unable to drop and I would both not know why and also have no control over the outcome! I would simply stop playing! It would create a very easily foreseeable barrier to entry in a game with an (at least perceived by myself) already shrinking population.

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I belive this was one of the big draws to WoW; there was a concept of 'rare' items that only some could posess. That gave them 'value' and so people could take pride in their inventory and brag about it. Today, that is not the case with MWO. The only 'uniqueness' is if you want to paint your mech for $3; But mostly once people get the hang of it, most people all drive the same mech with the same loadout.

Again, scarcity in WoW is not by "limited quantities" but rather "incredibly difficult to attain" (or "a {Scrap} load of boring, tedious grinding that most can't be bothered with"). The limited quantities shuts people out and creates animosity. The difficult to attain mechanism allows everyone to think "I could get that if I wanted to!" where the reality is, most won't.

I'm not going to argue against scarcity. That part of your observation I will agree with. The locking people out mechanism just shows the artificial enforcement for what it is. Creating a "difficult to attain" mechanism in the current game with the poor game choices PGI has made to date is difficult if not impossible. CW may change this but I'm not holding my breath.

[Samurai 7]

Thanks for the thoughtful responses. The ideas came from needing to take both perspectives on the equation. PGI is a company, they need to make money in order to provide content. People complain that content doesn't come fast enough and that is from a lack of employees and lack of capital. In blizzards hay day, they were a multibillion dollar company and could throw 100's of programmers at bugs content etc. PGI is what I would call in 'startup mode'. So they have limited funds and know how long they have before they need the next round of funds (which is apparently every 6 months). Instead of doing these 'END OF YEAR BLOW OUT BONANZA' which feels like i'm watching a used car sales man, they could make up the difference in micro transactions. I would be fine spending $5 a month regularly, i am not fine spending $120 every 6 months. So you really have the choice of high volume low value transactions or very low volume high value transactions. They made a killing on the founders pack, I am not so sure they did so well on phoenix.
Back to my suggestions, really all 4 are tied together with the though in mind that people get gun shy when they see a $120 or $500 price tag. Sure there are people out there that will pay it, but the number of those willing to is a fraction of someone that would spend $10;

1. The first one was an alternative method for just 're-packaging' a package. As far as value goes, I think that is up to the person. For instance, 217MC - ~$1 (this is the cost if you average out all of the MC packages. Obviously more money you spend the better the value proposition);
The most expensive mech in the game is 5480MC or about $25, $.25 per ton. So while i said $35, that was just based on the current package price per mech, unless you shell out $250 for the crazy package. Personally i wouldnt spend $35 or $25 on a mech. But my former boss did. He's got a few hundred into the game alread
The cheapest 560MC or $2.58 or about $.13 a ton.
So the question becomes then, is atlas twice as valuable as an locust? The reason that becomes important is for in game 'longevity' which I will get to later. But if they make it so that the losing team gets no c-bills, and a dead piolet gets a small fraction, maybe enough to cover launch fees, Then you will have insentive to survive a match. Larger mechs tend to survive longer and so have a high 'value' associated with them. In my boom jag, i can 1 shot spiders, locuts, leg a jenner or raven. So right there, lights have a much lower chance of survival (see 4)

2. The idea behind limited quantity IS to lock people out. It gives them something to fight for. In game mechanics can be adjusted. For insnace, instead of having a 'hard' limit of say 1000 MadCats, there could be the idea of 'production time' which is created via killing a MADCAT. Something like for every 100 MAD CATs killed, 1 is created for global inventory and purchase. Pre-orders or Queues can be set up so that when its available you get it and you will always know where you stand in Queue.
Line jumpping passes can be sold for MC.
Again, the idea is to introduce scarcity and difficulty in getting Mechs. If i spend $25 on something I like the idea of being on of the only ones out there with it (not the only one, but one of the only ones); This gives a piece of code that has no real value 'perceived value'

3. By making items 'scarse' it will always set up a market place. It alrady exists, for example, you used to go on Ebay all the time and fine people selling gold or rare items and they would sell. Blizzard tried to limit and shut those down, but in a FtP atmosphere, i think its best to embrace that idea and just charge a small commission on the sale of the good rather that turn the account off.
By having a marketplace, it gives impatient people an option. 'oh no there are no madcats but i must have one' goto market place 'wanted madcat 7000MC' etc.... or the opposite, 'Selling MadCat 5000MC, doesnt fit play style'
etc.
But A market place can only exist when items are 'hard to get' as you put it or just limited. For instance, PGI said cockput items are seasons and limited. What if i realllllly wanted those x-mas lights, but now cant get them... Guess i am out of luck... So the idea already exists in the game.

4. I think they took repair out because it was getting too complicated. So maybe to expand on that Launch fees can be based on tonnage or something; IE a Atlas will cost 500k-C where a Locust 50k-C; This would better match the real world as it take more room and fuel to transport and drop 100t instead of 20t.
When you ask, Isn't this a free to play game? NO! absolutely NOT. Free-To-Play is marketing, all it means is there is no monthly fee. As time goes on however, you will start to see more and more content cost actual money. There has to be otherwise there is no incentive for PGI to have this game in the first place. Their objective is to make money first and a fun game 2nd. With out money, servers get shut down, people laid off and content delayed. You can get away with calling it 'free to play' because there are 'trial mechs' and technically if you spend HOURS in a trial mech you can eventually buy a real mech. I am not saying to take that away, all i am saying is those with Full time jobs dont have 10 hours a day to build up wealth, we would rather spend the $1 and get back to playing. If you give people the option of 1. drive trial mechs for 10 matches and you earn enough for 1 -5 drops in your real mechs, 2. Spend $1 for 5 drops, i think $1 is low enough that people will pay it. This will also give people an incentive to STAY ALIVE in matches and not be MORONS by charging into 12 mechs in a defensive position. Instead, C-bills should only be awarded to the winner of the match and the survivors of the match. A pool can be created based on different criteria, such as Enemy tonnage and Enemy Value (as value does not always eq power); Dead pilots can share the dead pool which would be a % of the value of dead enemy mech's. While the survivors get the rest. This very will could mean matches where 1 person walks away with 1M-C; But again, it give incentives to survive and work as a team. If someone goes off an hides somewhere all they will do is **** their dead teammates off who will just tell the other team where they are hiding etc.

[Nekki Basara]

Samurai 7, on 18 January 2014 - 09:56 AM, said:

When you ask, Isn't this a free to play game? NO! absolutely NOT. Free-To-Play is marketing, all it means is there is no monthly fee. As time goes on however, you will start to see more and more content cost actual money.

World of Tanks, the gold standard that MWO emulates, does the exact opposite of this. HTH.

[Devari]

Samurai, imma have to stop you there for a sec, gonna give the microphone back and let you finish in a minute.

Samurai 7, on 18 January 2014 - 09:56 AM, said:

PGI is a company, they need to make money in order to provide content.

You've got it backwards. In most legitimate businesses (i.e., anything other than a pyramid or Ponzi scheme), you need to make a product FIRST, and THEN you sell it. PGI is doing the opposite, because it is always more profitable to PROMISE something, take people's money, and then choose not to do the work.

Samurai 7, on 18 January 2014 - 09:56 AM, said:

People complain that content doesn't come fast enough

That would be because the game has been in development for over two years and is still a rudimentary fps sandbox. They told us it would be in working form by the end of 2013, now they say it will be another full year. Most players (myself included) were very patient up until this point, despite many missed deadlines, because we believed they were actually doing the work they said they were doing.

Samurai 7, on 18 January 2014 - 09:56 AM, said:

and that is from a lack of employees

They have about 40 employees, but have over half of them re-skinning mechs, most of the rest putting out patches and only a small number of the remaining people working on the actual game features like community warfare. Misallocation of their resources is NOT the same as a lack of resources.

Samurai 7, on 18 January 2014 - 09:56 AM, said:

and lack of capital.

We have ALREADY given them large amounts of money based almost entirely on nostalgia for the mechwarrior franchise and trust that they would do the work we paid them to do. PGI raised $5 million from the founder packages and probably around the same from the phoenix/saber packages.

So after $8-10 million, plus whatever they got from other investors, should be enough to have a working product after two years. Especially considering they had an existing IP, mech designs and even core game rules to start with right from the outset. They didn't have to create the game from nothing, they just had to do what four other game designers have already done successfully and turn it into a MMO. If they waste the money they are given by investors, misallocate their resources and outright lie to their playerbase without doing the work they said they would do, that is entirely their problem.

[KaneDeathForge]

here is my only real question since you said stats on hard points and lay outs are not per say out yet, i want a gold timber wolf. but theres a problem. it is useless in this game unless it has been butchered. the timber wolf was only usefull truly at long range with lrm anything else got it killed. why release it? you made lrm almost totaly useless?

[Nekki Basara]

KaneDeathForge, on 19 January 2014 - 09:16 PM, said:

here is my only real question since you said stats on hard points and lay outs are not per say out yet, i want a gold timber wolf. but theres a problem. it is useless in this game unless it has been butchered. the timber wolf was only usefull truly at long range with lrm anything else got it killed. why release it? you made lrm almost totaly useless?

In the context of MWO your question is valid, but in TT the Timber Wolf is a close-range Brawler that has a pair of CERLL to soften things up with on the approach. CLRMs are basically just big IS SRM4s.

[Nightfire]

Samurai 7, on 18 January 2014 - 09:56 AM, said:

Thanks for the thoughtful responses. The ideas came from needing to take both perspectives on the equation. PGI is a company, they need to make money in order to provide content.

No, they need to provide content to make money. The community has already handed over ~$10 Million dollars and they have received revenue from other sources. 40 employes @ 100k/year is still only $1 Million for the last 2 years, why haven't they produced anything significant? Handout times are over.

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People complain that content doesn't come fast enough and that is from a lack of employees and lack of capital.

40 employees! $10+ Million! They are far from under resourced and for the resources they have, content is coming out far too slowly!

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In blizzards hay day, they were a multibillion dollar company and could throw 100's of programmers at bugs content etc.

Blizzard always delivered what they promised! People may have not agreed with the design directions they have taken, but they delivered! Noticeable difference here!

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PGI is what I would call in 'startup mode'. So they have limited funds and know how long they have before they need the next round of funds (which is apparently every 6 months).

This game has been in Open Beta for over 2 years and they have drawn in revenue of over $10 million, they are well beyond 'startup mode'.

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Instead of doing these 'END OF YEAR BLOW OUT BONANZA' which feels like i'm watching a used car sales man, they could make up the difference in micro transactions. I would be fine spending $5 a month regularly, i am not fine spending $120 every 6 months. So you really have the choice of high volume low value transactions or very low volume high value transactions.

Not going to disagree on this one. I will point out that it is hard to grab the money and run on high volume, low value transactions as you have to stick around to get that trickle in effect to build up. The 'END OF YEAR BLOW OUT BONANZA' sales tactic you allude to allows break points where you can easily shut up shop and look for the next scheme.

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They made a killing on the founders pack, I am not so sure they did so well on phoenix.

Founders: They did make a killing. Phoenix: PGI say they did better but ... who knows. They are not a publicly traded company and are not required to divulge their financials to anyone other than the tax department. In short, until someone ever gets them into a court of law, they are not required to tell the truth to their customers.

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Back to my suggestions, really all 4 are tied together with the though in mind that people get gun shy when they see a $120 or $500 price tag. Sure there are people out there that will pay it, but the number of those willing to is a fraction of someone that would spend $10;

1. The first one was an alternative method for just 're-packaging' a package. As far as value goes, I think that is up to the person. For instance, 217MC - ~$1 (this is the cost if you average out all of the MC packages. Obviously more money you spend the better the value proposition);
The most expensive mech in the game is 5480MC or about $25, $.25 per ton. So while i said $35, that was just based on the current package price per mech, unless you shell out $250 for the crazy package. Personally i wouldnt spend $35 or $25 on a mech. But my former boss did. He's got a few hundred into the game alread
The cheapest 560MC or $2.58 or about $.13 a ton.
So the question becomes then, is atlas twice as valuable as an locust? The reason that becomes important is for in game 'longevity' which I will get to later. But if they make it so that the losing team gets no c-bills, and a dead piolet gets a small fraction, maybe enough to cover launch fees, Then you will have insentive to survive a match. Larger mechs tend to survive longer and so have a high 'value' associated with them. In my boom jag, i can 1 shot spiders, locuts, leg a jenner or raven. So right there, lights have a much lower chance of survival (see 4)

The current meta does nothing but favor more armor, bigger guns and more of them. I can understand some mechs being more expensive C-Bill wise based on their usefulness, it makes sense. MC wise though? No, at least not a large variation. I'm paying money for a product and that price to me would in effect represent the cost of production. If you're going to bring tonnage into it then the variation should not be so large, I'm certainly not going to pay $25 in real cash for a pretend avatar. Their pricing is way over the top and only getting worse. It is as if they have lost touch with reality.

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2. The idea behind limited quantity IS to lock people out. It gives them something to fight for. In game mechanics can be adjusted. For insnace, instead of having a 'hard' limit of say 1000 MadCats, there could be the idea of 'production time' which is created via killing a MADCAT. Something like for every 100 MAD CATs killed, 1 is created for global inventory and purchase. Pre-orders or Queues can be set up so that when its available you get it and you will always know where you stand in Queue.
Line jumpping passes can be sold for MC.
Again, the idea is to introduce scarcity and difficulty in getting Mechs. If i spend $25 on something I like the idea of being on of the only ones out there with it (not the only one, but one of the only ones); This gives a piece of code that has no real value 'perceived value'

What you describe here is literally Pay to Win! If you have more money at the right time, you get the current OP mech!
I know next month they'll nerf it into the ground with weapon balances to boost up the next one and restart the cycle but this isn't the point.
Scarcity, good idea. I won't shoot you down for that.
Locking people out? You admit this is the very point. To privilege those with real cash and give them significant, in game mechanical advantages for hard currency.
Gold AC/20 Rounds soon to follow!

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3. By making items 'scarse' it will always set up a market place. It alrady exists, for example, you used to go on Ebay all the time and fine people selling gold or rare items and they would sell. Blizzard tried to limit and shut those down, but in a FtP atmosphere, i think its best to embrace that idea and just charge a small commission on the sale of the good rather that turn the account off.
By having a marketplace, it gives impatient people an option. 'oh no there are no madcats but i must have one' goto market place 'wanted madcat 7000MC' etc.... or the opposite, 'Selling MadCat 5000MC, doesnt fit play style'
etc.
But A market place can only exist when items are 'hard to get' as you put it or just limited. For instance, PGI said cockput items are seasons and limited. What if i realllllly wanted those x-mas lights, but now cant get them... Guess i am out of luck... So the idea already exists in the game.

Again:
Scarcity: Good!
Lockout: Bad!

You really want the X-mas lights? Wait until next Christmas, you'll have another shot. Time periods isn't locking people out, just making it difficult to attain. Anyone can get them if they want to wait.
Additionally, they are cosmetic and have no effect on the actual mechanics of the game. This is actually a significant thing.

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4. I think they took repair out because it was getting too complicated. So maybe to expand on that Launch fees can be based on tonnage or something; IE a Atlas will cost 500k-C where a Locust 50k-C; This would better match the real world as it take more room and fuel to transport and drop 100t instead of 20t.

If you think Repair and Rearm was complicated, what do you think the option you are proposing is!?
R&R had many things going for it! It was a balancing mechanism (which PGI has been struggling without!), provided incentive to play lighter, cheaper mechs (diversifying the field) and placed an element of money making in the players hand.

In your scheme, if MM drops a newbie with his first mech in against veterans several rounds in a row, they will hunt him down and that will be all. There is nothing in his control that he can do. His choice of mech, load out, engine, attack strategy ... all pointless. He will be in trial mechs again and it will be a very difficult cycle to break out of.

Drop Fees are a poor man's replacement of R&R. It tries to achieve one of the functions of R&R, fails at that and doesn't even pretend to look at the other roles R&R filled.

Edit = PGI's forum system cannot handle too many quote tags. It just gives up.

Edited by Nightfire, 20 January 2014 - 12:32 AM.

[Kageru Ikazuchi]

Nightfire, on 20 January 2014 - 12:31 AM, said:

~$10 Million dollars and they have received revenue from other sources. 40 employes @ 100k/year is still only $1 Million for the last 2 years, why haven't they produced anything significant? Handout times are over.

40x100,000x2 = $8,000,000 ... at this point your arguments start losing credibility, but OK.

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content is coming out far too slowly!

I agree.

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Blizzard always delivered what they promised! People may have not agreed with the design directions they have taken, but they delivered! Noticeable difference here!

Blizzard basically trademarked "when it's ready" ... I loved all versions of SC and WC, but timely delivery of new content is not something they're known for.

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... until someone ever gets them into a court of law, they are not required to tell the truth (about their financial situation) to their customers.

While I am concerned about the long-term viability of the game, why does this matter?

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I'm certainly not going to pay $25 in real cash for a pretend avatar. Their pricing is way over the top and only getting worse. It is as if they have lost touch with reality.

I have never bought a Hero 'mech unless it's on sale, and have never spent for a 'mech that's available for for this exact reason ... I have regretted some Hero 'mech purchases, but really, if you don't think it's worth it, don't buy it.

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What you describe here is literally Pay to Win!

Assuming that any single 'mech or other item is inherently better than any other is PTW, sure, but one thing PGI has been very good about is making sure that the items available for are not. Taking the most obvious (to me) example, while a Misery may be better for some people's play styles, it is not necessarily better than (especially) the STK-3F.

I've been enjoying lurking through the conversation so far ... carry on ...

[Wolf Ender]

i just want to know one thing... if i buy the clan mechs are they going to say timber wolf, summoner, warhawk and dire wolf in my mechbay or are they going to say madcat, thor, masakari daishi ???

[Devari]

Wolf Ender, on 20 January 2014 - 03:11 AM, said:

i just want to know one thing... if i buy the clan mechs are they going to say timber wolf, summoner, warhawk and dire wolf in my mechbay or are they going to say madcat, thor, masakari daishi ???

I checked my mechlab, all of mine say N.O.P.E.

[StormDll]

Have same news about Clan mech or Clantech?

[Nekki Basara]

Wolf Ender, on 20 January 2014 - 03:11 AM, said:

i just want to know one thing... if i buy the clan mechs are they going to say timber wolf, summoner, warhawk and dire wolf in my mechbay or are they going to say madcat, thor, masakari daishi ???

This is a really trivial thing to wonder about. Like, pointless even.

[Nightfire]

Kageru Ikazuchi, on 20 January 2014 - 03:06 AM, said:

40x100,000x2 = $8,000,000 ... at this point your arguments start losing credibility, but OK.

You know what, I'm going to go ahead and own that terrible screw up. Mea Culpa.
The point remains that for the last 2 years they have had far more then they needed to produce a reasonable amount of content. They have had the financial resources and they have failed to deliver.

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Blizzard basically trademarked "when it's ready" ... I loved all versions of SC and WC, but timely delivery of new content is not something they're known for.

Well yes and no. I am also familiar with Blizzard's "soon"^TM but even with Blizzard you could see the public test servers, see the changes and progress, read the patch notes which detailed the changes.
Yes PGI have had test servers. Yes PGI have Patch notes. They have not demonstrated any progress towards CW. None of us has any concept of the mechanics of how it is going to work because it's never been discussed in any detail. I'm pretty sure PGI have no idea of how the mechanics will work beyond the vague descriptions.

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While I am concerned about the long-term viability of the game, why does this matter?

Ok:

• That point illustrates that unless you are sued in a court of law, the law is meaningless. People lie, cheat and deceive every day and get away with it. So since PGI is not a public company and is not required to publish the information we, as a community, are concerned about the veracity of said statements are of questionable value in the light of the already noted failure to communicate (ie: license renewal) and removal of information feeds (ie: # players online).
  
• This breaches the trust and confidence of the customer base. There is a reason a lot of us no longer believe some of what PGI says. They created the gap in communication and they breached our trust when they said that they were actually working on the features we were really waiting for. That is going to take a lot of repairing.
  
• If PGI don't repair said trust and the consumer base cannot believe PGI and as such feels disenfranchised, this game doesn't have a long term viability. It's that simple

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I have never bought a Hero 'mech unless it's on sale, and have never spent for a 'mech that's available for for this exact reason ... I have regretted some Hero 'mech purchases, but really, if you don't think it's worth it, don't buy it.

Yeah and you know what, I didn't buy another from that point on. You are missing the point. It's that PGI have an almost complete disconnect between the community and the value of their "product".

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Assuming that any single 'mech or other item is inherently better than any other is PTW, sure, but one thing PGI has been very good about is making sure that the items available for are not. Taking the most obvious (to me) example, while a Misery may be better for some people's play styles, it is not necessarily better than (especially) the STK-3F.

But here is the missing point. The Misery is still available if you want it.

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I've been enjoying lurking through the conversation so far ... carry on ...

Glad you're enjoying it.
Now, since there are a few posts between this one and my last, it will hopefully not keep trying to merge the two into one mega post and then choke on the quote tags.
To continue from my previous post.

Samurai 7, on 18 January 2014 - 09:56 AM, said:

When you ask, Isn't this a free to play game? NO! absolutely NOT. Free-To-Play is marketing, all it means is there is no monthly fee. As time goes on however, you will start to see more and more content cost actual money. There has to be otherwise there is no incentive for PGI to have this game in the first place.

Then perhaps they should create some content? Mechs are not content! At least not what I would term real content, to me they are avatars. Everything that PGI can sell has been worked to death. Everything that could actually be described as content (ie: everything that matters to a long term game beyond endless rounds of unconnected matches) has been sidelined (by their own admission). Even Paul said the new skirmish mode was easy. So in 2 years why haven't we seen the bug fixes to Hit Registration, Knock Downs, etc that have been around since closed beta? Why are the maps so glacially slow in coming out? Why haven't the details of CW been discussed in detail for critique?

None of these rely on UI2.0 so that isn't the hold up (Well CW might but I'm not sure it's even fleshed out so ... it's not waiting on it yet). We've seen new maps but really, they are not the sort of thing that should take as long as they do. Game modes can be complex to think up but I could give them a few ideas to get them started quite easily. CW might actually be waiting on UI2.0 ... but there is no reason we couldn't be talking about how it is supposed to function (unless they really don't know).

The bugs ... that's just painful.

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Their objective is to make money first and a fun game 2nd. With out money, servers get shut down, people laid off and content delayed.

Good grief! I'll say it again, $10+ Million! They are very good at making items to sell, very poor at making actual content. You needn't fear on this front.

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You can get away with calling it 'free to play' because there are 'trial mechs' and technically if you spend HOURS in a trial mech you can eventually buy a real mech. I am not saying to take that away, all i am saying is those with Full time jobs dont have 10 hours a day to build up wealth, we would rather spend the $1 and get back to playing. If you give people the option of 1. drive trial mechs for 10 matches and you earn enough for 1 -5 drops in your real mechs, 2. Spend $1 for 5 drops, i think $1 is low enough that people will pay it. This will also give people an incentive to STAY ALIVE in matches and not be MORONS by charging into 12 mechs in a defensive position. Instead, C-bills should only be awarded to the winner of the match and the survivors of the match. A pool can be created based on different criteria, such as Enemy tonnage and Enemy Value (as value does not always eq power); Dead pilots can share the dead pool which would be a % of the value of dead enemy mech's. While the survivors get the rest. This very will could mean matches where 1 person walks away with 1M-C; But again, it give incentives to survive and work as a team.

If I hadn't already quit due to the poor choices PGI has made and lack of content, this certainly would make me!

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If someone goes off an hides somewhere all they will do is **** their dead teammates off who will just tell the other team where they are hiding etc.

And get themselves banned in the process. I would like to draw your attention to http://mwomercs.com/...arrior-justice/ ... well it was an offense. Seems PGI really don't care about bad sportsmanship anymore, as long as you keep spending $$ http://mwomercs.com/...nduct-expanded/

At any rate, if you create a mechanism that encourages a particular behavior, that particular behavior will manifest regardless of if you want it to or not. Punishing a behavior you encourage is just really really poor game design!

[Pariahsis]

Hey PGI, how about you actually finish the game before you try to extort more money out of your fan base? Here are some things that are more important than adding clan mechs to the game: VOIP, Community Warfare, and UI 2.0. You won't be getting any more money from me until then.

Sincerely,
One extremely dissatisfied customer.

[dangerzone]

Neozero, on 13 December 2013 - 04:48 PM, said:

you know I was ok paying 120-180 for packs but 240 for the highest tier and only 90 days of preimum time this is out of control. Further more did you devs not promise this game would not become pay to win?

What is up with unique modules or your Gold 500 dollar mechs? that is pay to win and not only that your prices are so high and outragous at this point this announcement did more to upset me then get me hyped about MWO.

No UI 2.0 No CW but we damn sure as hell can milk the community for some scratch~

Automated Troll Reponse incoming....

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Pay 2 Win is when something gives you an unfair advantage in this game regardless of pilot skill meaning if you suck and are green as grass, that unique module will make you win. That is not going to happen. You do not even know what the unique modules ARE. Do you have insider info from PGI? If so, please enlighten us. We'd all love to hear more. Please, tell us more about how you know more about Clans then we do.

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[RG Notch]

dangerzone, on 21 January 2014 - 06:34 AM, said:

Automated Troll Reponse incoming....

...Opening Troll Transmission...
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Pay 2 Win is when something gives you an unfair advantage in this game regardless of pilot skill meaning if you suck and are green as grass, that unique module will make you win. That is not going to happen. You do not even know what the unique modules ARE. Do you have insider info from PGI? If so, please enlighten us. We'd all love to hear more. Please, tell us more about how you know more about Clans then we do.

...Closing Transmission...
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Wait a minute, you seem to know that this module won't be P2W, do you have inside info at PGI? Do you know more about the Clans than we do?
One thing I will say is PGI has so far avoided P2W, but who knows what they will do as they get more and more desperate (and the pricing of these packs relative to previous packs can be read as worrying) for cash. Don't tell me they said the game wouldn't be P2W, because I don't think I need to go into the litany of things PGI has said that have proved to be "their position at the time". Perhaps not being P2W was just their position at the time.