7768 replies to this topic

[dangerzone]

RG Notch, on 21 January 2014 - 06:50 AM, said:

Wait a minute, you seem to know that this module won't be P2W, do you have inside info at PGI? Do you know more about the Clans than we do?
One thing I will say is PGI has so far avoided P2W, but who knows what they will do as they get more and more desperate (and the pricing of these packs relative to previous packs can be read as worrying) for cash. Don't tell me they said the game wouldn't be P2W, because I don't think I need to go into the litany of things PGI has said that have proved to be "their position at the time". Perhaps not being P2W was just their position at the time.

Yep, you caught me. I totally am an insider at PGI and in an attempt to cover up me being a corporate shill, I totally just quoted that guy and called him on his bluff. Yup. Good job. I've been thwarted.

[RG Notch]

dangerzone, on 21 January 2014 - 07:07 AM, said:

Yep, you caught me. I totally am an insider at PGI and in an attempt to cover up me being a corporate shill, I totally just quoted that guy and called him on his bluff. Yup. Good job. I've been thwarted.

So your bluff is somehow different?

[dangerzone]

RG Notch, on 21 January 2014 - 07:09 AM, said:

So your bluff is somehow different?

I don't know where your ideas of bluffing came from in the first place. I thought this was a forum website for MWO, not poker. I was merely asking him how he knows that these unique modules will be p2w even though nothing has been mentioned about them.

However, they (PGI) will let us know about more clan stuff in the coming months.

I'd love to say more about PGI, and IGP and MWO to give you guys cool news, but I am fairly sure they'd send ninjas and space pirates after me.

Edited by dangerzone, 21 January 2014 - 07:23 AM.

[RG Notch]

dangerzone, on 21 January 2014 - 07:22 AM, said:

I don't know where your ideas of bluffing came from in the first place. I thought this was a forum website for MWO, not poker. I was merely asking him how he knows that these unique modules will be p2w even though nothing has been mentioned about them.

However, they (PGI) will let us know about more clan stuff in the coming months.

I'd love to say more about PGI, and IGP and MWO to give you guys cool news, but I am fairly sure they'd send ninjas and space pirates after me.

Yet you said that this module being P2W was "not going to happen". How do you know that? I can't believe I actually had to spell that out for you. Your assumption is somehow valid yet his is worthy of mocking?

[dangerzone]

RG Notch, on 21 January 2014 - 07:35 AM, said:

Yet you said that this module being P2W was "not going to happen". How do you know that? I can't believe I actually had to spell that out for you. Your assumption is somehow valid yet his is worthy of mocking?

Simple. If a module was P2W and paying $240 got you "UBER L33T P2W MODURERS", this game would die so quickly it'd make your head spin. That has nothing to do with PGI, or IGP. That is a simple business concept. People have stated on the forums over and over that if this game became true P2W, they'd all basically leave. What is so hard to understand that this game can NEVER be P2W?

It does not matter if you have the best meta build in the game, or the "best" 'mech in the game. Or in this case, the "best" unique modules. If you suck at this game, then your 'mech sucks at this game. There is no way in hell PGI can design something that suddenly will make a bad player or a new player suddenly have amazing skill. I mean, if they perhaps dived into the world of biotechnology and implanted chips in our brains designed to make us amazing at gaming, then MAYBE this would be P2W. Actually, that would make the player OP, not the game. Unless gold ammo, or temp-invincible powerups are put in the game, it to this date is not P2W.

It seems like nobody here has any concept of what P2W really is. Want P2W? Go play WoT. Want a Pay 2 Not Grind game? Play MWO.

EDIT: I have yet to see someone make a claim of MWO being P2W and actually have enough proof and meat to back up their statement and have plenty of people saying the same thing. It is usually people who got owned by a meta build and claim P2W to try and justify their argument.

Edited by dangerzone, 21 January 2014 - 07:49 AM.

[RainbowC22]

dangerzone, on 21 January 2014 - 07:45 AM, said:

EDIT: I have yet to see someone make a claim of MWO being P2W and actually have enough proof and meat to back up their statement and have plenty of people saying the same thing. It is usually people who got owned by a meta build and claim P2W to try and justify their argument.

Must not have checked very hard then, considering I made that claim, and backed it up, in 1 of the 2 threads right below this one. Do more research. Also as for 'and have plenty of people saying the same thing' Everyone has different opinions. What one person sees as P2W, might not match someone else's definition of P2W. There is no clear way to define P2W, especially in games now a days where companies are pushing the limits as much as possible, and people hold onto the old definition and there for will not fight against them for it.

Edited by RainbowC22, 21 January 2014 - 07:56 AM.

[dangerzone]

RainbowC22, on 21 January 2014 - 07:54 AM, said:

Must not have checked very hard then, considering I made that claim, and backed it up, in 1 of the 2 threads right below this one. Do more research. Also as for 'and have plenty of people saying the same thing' Everyone has different opinions. What one person sees as P2W, might not match someone else's definition of P2W. There is no clear way to define P2W, especially in games now a days where companies are pushing the limits as much as possible, and people hold onto the old definition and there for will not fight against them for it.

As the saying goes, beauty is in the eyes of the beholder. The same goes for the definition of P2W. There is an old definition meaning anything that gives an unfair advantage. The new definition of P2W tends to vary from person to person and is often based on personal experiences. An example of this is a player in MWO who was just murdered by a Hero 'Mech with unique hardpoints. Let's say for the time being it was an AS7-DDC vs. a Boar's Head. The BH was running 6 ML, AC/20, and LRM10. No other Atlas can run that. The killed player can easily go off and say P2W.

The thing is, it is not P2W by the old defintion because that 'mech relies on the person piloting it for the weapons to be useful (being able to aim, shot consistency, heat management, etc....the 'mech won't do any of that for you automatically) By new definition, the player feels cheated and robbed of a good time. The player is not wrong for feeling this way either. They have every right to come on the forums and express their opinions, but like any forums, they need to be prepared to receive criticism, just as I am doing to this very topic.

In the end, as you said, everyone sees P2W in a different light. My light involves strobe lights, flashing lights, and UV lights and a disco ball because I like to get funky and I'm up all night to get lucky.

Edited by dangerzone, 21 January 2014 - 08:05 AM.

[RG Notch]

dangerzone, on 21 January 2014 - 07:45 AM, said:

Simple. If a module was P2W and paying $240 got you "UBER L33T P2W MODURERS", this game would die so quickly it'd make your head spin. That has nothing to do with PGI, or IGP. That is a simple business concept. People have stated on the forums over and over that if this game became true P2W, they'd all basically leave. What is so hard to understand that this game can NEVER be P2W?

It does not matter if you have the best meta build in the game, or the "best" 'mech in the game. Or in this case, the "best" unique modules. If you suck at this game, then your 'mech sucks at this game. There is no way in hell PGI can design something that suddenly will make a bad player or a new player suddenly have amazing skill. I mean, if they perhaps dived into the world of biotechnology and implanted chips in our brains designed to make us amazing at gaming, then MAYBE this would be P2W. Actually, that would make the player OP, not the game. Unless gold ammo, or temp-invincible powerups are put in the game, it to this date is not P2W.

It seems like nobody here has any concept of what P2W really is. Want P2W? Go play WoT. Want a Pay 2 Not Grind game? Play MWO.

EDIT: I have yet to see someone make a claim of MWO being P2W and actually have enough proof and meat to back up their statement and have plenty of people saying the same thing. It is usually people who got owned by a meta build and claim P2W to try and justify their argument.

Wow, I was right, your assumptions trump other people's assumptions. I find it interesting that you say P2W would kill the game and then point out a P2W game which is probably one of the most successful F2Ps, WoT. Also there are a number of other games that get labelled P2W that survive and even thrive. Lots of people say they won't play P2W games but someone plays them and pays so it doesn't mean moving to P2W would kill this game.
Once again MWO is not P2W currently, but assuming it will never be is dangerous. Say what you want about WoT it's pretty much the industry standard for successful games of this type. MWO could only dream of having as many players or as much income. WoT was P2W when I played awhile ago, it seems to be transitioning, but it only did so after it made a ton of money and attracted a ton of players. So please don't say P2W games won't work.

[dangerzone]

RG Notch, on 21 January 2014 - 08:06 AM, said:

Wow, I was right, your assumptions trump other people's assumptions. I find it interesting that you say P2W would kill the game and then point out a P2W game which is probably one of the most successful F2Ps, WoT. Also there are a number of other games that get labelled P2W that survive and even thrive. Lots of people say they won't play P2W games but someone plays them and pays so it doesn't mean moving to P2W would kill this game.
Once again MWO is not P2W currently, but assuming it will never be is dangerous. Say what you want about WoT it's pretty much the industry standard for successful games of this type. MWO could only dream of having as many players or as much income. WoT was P2W when I played awhile ago, it seems to be transitioning, but it only did so after it made a ton of money and attracted a ton of players. So please don't say P2W games won't work.

No. I was referring to the fact that if MWO became P2W it would die. The difference between WoT and MWO is that WoT was born P2W, while MWO was founded on not being P2W. So far it is the only thing PGI has done right, and that is not including gold ammo or any of that jazz.

I should have made that more clear. When I type things up they make sense to me because I know what I am trying to say. Sadly, people will always interpret things differently. It's just the nature of the beast.

As for WoT, it was born out of P2W, so people expect it. People don't expect P2W here because it was not founded on P2W.

I consider a game dead when a lot of the community leaves. It is not unreasonable to say that a lot of casual people who play MWO will leave due to not willing to pay money to win or have the money to do so. Of course people will still pay PGI for content regardless what direction this game takes. Usually I will buy $100 worth of MC once every 3 to 4 months.

Transitioning to P2W for MWO will be a hardship for most of the community sadly.

Edited by dangerzone, 21 January 2014 - 08:21 AM.

[Nekki Basara]

That's a very narrow definition to pick. Almost like you were doing so just so the situation would be defensible.

[Jacmac]

dangerzone, on 21 January 2014 - 08:18 AM, said:

I consider a game dead when a lot of the community leaves. It is not unreasonable to say that a lot of casual people who play MWO will leave due to not willing to pay money to win or have the money to do so. Of course people will still pay PGI for content regardless what direction this game takes. Usually I will buy $100 worth of MC once every 3 to 4 months.

You should consider a game dead when people stop paying for it. The competitive community has abandoned the game, at least temporarily. PGI could turn things around, but it will take quite awhile. If there are enough players like you paying $400-500/year for MC + buying all of the mech packs, PGI will survive long enough to have a chance at turning things around. Thanks for being a sponsor!

[dangerzone]

Jacmac, on 21 January 2014 - 08:51 AM, said:

You should consider a game dead when people stop paying for it. The competitive community has abandoned the game, at least temporarily. PGI could turn things around, but it will take quite awhile. If there are enough players like you paying $400-500/year for MC + buying all of the mech packs, PGI will survive long enough to have a chance at turning things around. Thanks for being a sponsor!

You're very welcome! Unlike most people who feel entitled to something for paying IGP (Yes, I said IGP) money for mwo, I do not think it deserves me a seat at the meeting room for pgi.

I say IGP because they are the publisher and handle any and all things to do with income/profit for mwo. It's what a publisher does. PGI just makes the stuff, and IGP prices it. Why IGP made gold mechs $500 is beyond me...anywho, going back to what Nekki said, it is not that I am trying to make my definition of P2W favor my defense...it is just simply fact, that there is the old def. of p2w, which was described as anything that can be bought via real world money that gives an unfair advantage over non paying players.

MWO accidentally almost went P2W. If you can recall back from the fiasco with consumables and the ORIGINAL design of them giving MC variants of UAV, Arty Strike, etc an advantage over non MC versions...that was p2w. That is why they changed it so you can upgrade the cbill versions from the pilot lab upgrades to match the MC versions. That just falls back on pay 2 not grind. Since premium time gives you an XP boost which means that the small amount that you earn in xp that is given off to gxp, is now larger, which means faster progress to upgrades.

I apologize for the late response. I was driving home in a blizzard (I live in philly metro area). We're getting hit with 9-14inches, 25-35mph winds and 1/4 mile visibility. I actually just got home and ate lunch a short while ago.

EDIT: There are a few things I have not bought though from mwo. Sabre package, and a few hero mechs. The hero's I do not own are: The Death's Knell, Fang, Flame, X-5, Pretty Baby, Firebrand and Protector. I own all the others. I actually own 2 Ilya's for different builds that I find so fun to play, to me it was worth getting a 2nd Ilya.

Edited by dangerzone, 21 January 2014 - 10:51 AM.

[Samurai 7]

Just as my 2 cents, I really don't care if this goes P2W so long as the content is balanced and doesn't completely throw off the entire community.
Things like AC/20 bullets that do maybe 25 damage for a extra 200MC; Or LRMs that go 1500m instead of 1000m.

Incremental increases vs things like 'armor doubler' or 'heat suppression' etc. Where you would gain an obvious advantage over another player.

Again the point of this discussion was that Mech Packages are to expensive. So, in order to compensate for lowering the price of mechs, the money has to come from somewhere else.

[dangerzone]

Samurai 7, on 21 January 2014 - 01:29 PM, said:

Just as my 2 cents, I really don't care if this goes P2W so long as the content is balanced and doesn't completely throw off the entire community.
Things like AC/20 bullets that do maybe 25 damage for a extra 200MC; Or LRMs that go 1500m instead of 1000m.

Incremental increases vs things like 'armor doubler' or 'heat suppression' etc. Where you would gain an obvious advantage over another player.

Again the point of this discussion was that Mech Packages are to expensive. So, in order to compensate for lowering the price of mechs, the money has to come from somewhere else.

Agreed. I would not mind those minor tweaks one bit. In fact, I think that is what the new tier 1/2/3 weapon modules are for. Someone from pgi used an example such as a laser/energy module that maybe gave an extra 90m range to all lasers on that mech with the module equipped. That could make MPL and SPL more viable.

[The Great Unwashed]

Have Another Penny Pgi & Igp (H.A.P.P.I.)

There, I bought the first tier the-whatever-it-is-called-light package.

Edited by The Great Unwashed, 24 January 2014 - 08:44 AM.

[cwherls]

Does anyone know when they are going to release all of the info on the clan mechs?

[RainbowC22]

cwherls, on 24 January 2014 - 12:46 PM, said:

Does anyone know when they are going to release all of the info on the clan mechs?

The day after they are meant to be released, because they have no idea how they are going to work right now, they probably aren't even done being modeled in 3D, let alone being painted and all the coding into movement and so on, and they balancing all the Clan weapons, so have to build the mechs to match and be balanced with all the different weapons and so on. With their track record of 'new' content, my guess is that they will not be released when they are meant to, will not be even close to done, and right here and now have absolutely no idea how any of them will look like hardpoint/weapons/armor/speed/engine wise, because those having been made yet.

[Ghastous]

This topic is such a awesome read it makes me laugh. 1st off lets just say $500 for a gold mech plus all the others is bad and i agree it is bad but i cant grumble on the other options as its still far cheaper then world of tanks so lets break it down.

WoTs as been out since 2011 and 2010 in russia and is still live now but lets dive deeper into the game.

When WoTs launched it at 1 mode MWO as 3 so thats 2 more more then WoT at launch.

A hero mech costs around $30 and thats for a assault mech which as the most tonnage which is £18 in my money. In WoTs a tier 8 heavy tank cost over £35 which is about $60 max so MWO is also better there.

Gold ammo now that was a killer yeh lets pay real money to get better ammo so i could penetrate your tank but you couldn't hurt me. Glad MWO don't have that.

Both titles offer basically the same deals on prem time and MC/Gold packages

There is no tiers to grind up in MWO but u have to grind tiers in WoTs meaning u have to stick to 1 tree to get to where u want to be spending that hard earned credits on engine parts and gun upgrades. MWO doesn't do that u can buy 1 mech and play 5000 games in that mech and have the same fun every game in WoT u cant because ull get the same matches of the same tier over and over again because if ur not progressing then ur not moving the game or ur game forward so for me MWO wins again.

Balance issues now this i cant really comment much on MWO as ive only played like 35 games but what i've seen so far it say its fairly balanced as i've been taken out by light mechs while in my heavy mech but for WoT u maybe in a tier 4 tank up against tier 7s and 8s meaning u cant actually do a single bit to help your team in that game but scout but wat if ur in a heavy tank.

The community now this is a biggie for me. I've been posting on the forums since coming back to MWO since i was in closed beta testing and i have to say its far more better then WoT i've not been TKed i've not been trolled on the forums and i've not been harassed in game of which all of the stuff i mentioned happens every second in WoT just go play and you'll see for yourselves.

What im saying is why are the players complaining so much about the game being pay to win or charging to much money for things when if u look at Word of Tanks that game charges 4 times the amount for a single tank (the tanks are normally worse variants then the actual tanks u can get for credits so at least its not like that in MWO where the heroes aint OP and they aint UP either they are a chassis that u can modify to our standards) in MWO u can get at least 3-4 maybe even 5 hero mechs for that price unless ur going straight for the main boars head but even after that you'll still have change for a smaller hero mech so still a better deal.

So come on guys i think u should give the devs a break yeah they might not have promised all this spit and polish you wanted for so long but at least there not overcharging on your bank account or a total unbalanced game like other F2P games are like WoT for example and now with added planes on same account for more money rolling in.

For me i'm going to wait till around april and see if i'm still playing and then ill decide myself to buy into this clan stuff till then peace and happy stompy stompy.

Sorry for long rant post

Edited by Ghastous, 24 January 2014 - 06:31 PM.

[Nekki Basara]

I'm not sure you've actually played WoT TBH.

[Ghastous]

Nekki Basara, on 24 January 2014 - 08:01 PM, said:

I'm not sure you've actually played WoT TBH.

No i never played it at all lol go look my name up and ull see how utter {Scrap} i was in that utter {Scrap} game