7768 replies to this topic

[RacerX]

I'm not interested in the buy more save more a la cart model. Nice try PGI. The entry fee is simply too high regardless of what charms you throw in to the deal. I'll just wait until these models become available for c-bills. Good luck with your sale. I'm not buying into this money grab. Hopefully the next time you offer a sales event your pricing will be more affordable and reasonable.

[Blacke]

I would like to know how Clans are going to be implemented in CW first. When Merc CW opens up are Clan mechs going to be able to participate alongside innersphere mechs as if they were part of the IS merc units? When house units come out can I pilot my clan mech while fighting a battle as part of that house unit? Do I need to create a separate clan account and purchase my clan mechs on that account?

I really wish these questions would be answered.

Edited by Blacke, 07 February 2014 - 12:45 AM.

[Kinski Orlawisch]

So. The Daishi package is now signed for me..

Can t wait to get this coffee Cup..

[poopenshire]

Ok, first post but I had to weigh in..... I am concerned this type of costing goes the way of Pay To Win.... many companies make huge profits off it for a few short years at most then move on to something else. Most players feel abused and ***** by these systems and never spend again. I do not think this is a very good long term strategy. This only works if your thinking about the next 2 to 3 years maximum. Having been in other Pay 2 Win games like Modern War (by Gree(d) the ultimate in horrid customer service) I left and never looked back. Several of my teammates from our top Faction leave almost monthly. I have never spent a dime on this game but would consider it for the Clan Mechs, with one stipulation that this type of buy out is only for early access and special one off Mechs. If what I buy with this purchase becomes diluted by everyone eventually getting for free what I had to pay for.... well I am quitting very rapidly.

Edited by poopenshire, 07 February 2014 - 01:32 PM.

[Cavendish]

poopenshire, on 07 February 2014 - 01:20 PM, said:

Ok, first post but I had to weigh in..... I am concerned this type of costing goes the way of Pay To Win.... many companies make huge profits off it for a few short years at most then move on to something else. Most players feel abused and ***** by these systems and never spend again. I do not think this is a very good long term strategy. This only works if your thinking about the next 2 to 3 years maximum. Having been in other Pay 2 Win games like Modern War (by Gree(d) the ultimate in horrid customer service) I left and never looked back. Several of my teammates from our top Faction leave almost monthly. I have never spent a dime on this game but would consider it for the Clan Mechs, with one stipulation that this type of buy out is only for early access and special one off Mechs. If what I buy with this purchase becomes diluted by everyone eventually getting for free what I had to pay for.... well I am quitting very rapidly.

Im a bit confused, first you do not want pay 2 win, then you want special mechs only for people who pay?

I belive this will be handled as the last pack, i.e. you pay you get the mechs first while Cbill versions (without the 30% cash bonus) will show up one a month with the possibility that 2-3 of them will be availible for Cbills day one to give everyone a chance at playing Clan.

[poopenshire]

Cavendish, on 07 February 2014 - 02:13 PM, said:

Im a bit confused, first you do not want pay 2 win, then you want special mechs only for people who pay?

I belive this will be handled as the last pack, i.e. you pay you get the mechs first while Cbill versions (without the 30% cash bonus) will show up one a month with the possibility that 2-3 of them will be availible for Cbills day one to give everyone a chance at playing Clan.

No your reading too much into it. I don't want pay 2 win, but if I did pay that much I would not want my purchase to be diluted.

Buying Mechs is not Pay 2 win... atleast not like most Pay 2 Win games. I see it as buying unique content and yes the 30% CBill bonus would be part of that... I would hope there would be more. I think my statement was a bit rambling hence the confusion.

It was meant to be more to the point that if I am paying that much for something I don't want the value of it lost so quickly. I would be more likely to spend my money if it guaranteed to maintain value.

Edited by poopenshire, 07 February 2014 - 02:30 PM.

[Cavendish]

poopenshire, on 07 February 2014 - 02:29 PM, said:

No your reading too much into it. I don't want pay 2 win, but if I did pay that much I would not want my purchase to be diluted.

Buying Mechs is not Pay 2 win... atleast not like most Pay 2 Win games. I see it as buying unique content and yes the 30% CBill bonus would be part of that... I would hope there would be more. I think my statement was a bit rambling hence the confusion.

It was meant to be more to the point that if I am paying that much for something I don't want the value of it lost so quickly. I would be more likely to spend my money if it guaranteed to maintain value.

Ah ok, then I think I understand.

Well you do get benefits, you will have all mechs at once, all prime variants will have 30% cash bonus and you get some fluff like banners and some holostatue. Also some premium time.

[dervishx5]

Basicallky

Cavendish, on 07 February 2014 - 02:40 PM, said:

Ah ok, then I think I understand.

Well you do get benefits, you will have all mechs at once, all prime variants will have 30% cash bonus and you get some fluff like banners and some holostatue. Also some premium time.

Basically by paying for mech packs like the Founders and Phoenix, at least in my case, part of the reason was to save myself the time playing to build up all the CBills needed to get all those mechs that came in the packages. To me, my time is more valuable than the money they charged to get those.

Another reason is to have those mechs when others don't, and feel special for it. But the main driving factors in my purchases have always been to save me time.

[9erRed]

Greetings all,

Has no one noticed that the Prime load outs for some of the Clan mech's include the "Targeting Computer"

Example here:





And if they follow the Sarna explanation for what this computer does, the Clan Mech's just became much more dangerous.

The Targeting Computer

• was introduced by Clan Mongoose in 2860.
  
• Targeting Computers are sophisticated pieces of electronics that, unlike normal targeting systems, physically help MechWarriors target their opponents.
  
• Recoil compensators and gyroscopic stabilizers are used to prevent normal weapon drift from factors such as recoil and movement while the computer accounts for atmospheric and other conditions to present an accurate "lead" on the target.
  
• This allows for more surgical precision of weapons fire, especially with naturally accurate systems, allowing for the user to hit specific parts on the target vehicle.

Will PGI actually build in these two special features?

- Target lead indicator
- component targeting

I'm just picturing the displayed Mech with 4 x ER PPC's and built in lead with component targeting. If you thought Clans might be dangerous before, now there down right scary.

9erRed

Edited by 9erRed, 07 February 2014 - 07:52 PM.

[sabujo]

9erRed, on 07 February 2014 - 07:38 PM, said:

Will PGI actually build in these two special features?

- Target lead indicator
- component targeting

I'm just picturing the displayed Mech with 4 x ER PPC's and built in lead with component targeting. If you thought Clans might be dangerous before, now there down right scary.

9erRed

That's interesting. I am sure they will manage to balance that out. It is always welcome to have more variety, so I find that a good thing. Let's see what follows from it.

Hopefully, the warhorn should counter that! (j/k)

[M4NTiC0R3X]

i will not pay money for this because i have spent too much already. give me dat shit for free 'cos I spent so much moolah you greedy motha bad words.

[Canadian Attack Beaver]

Comparing the packaging, or a La Carte pricing yields the same results; these Clan mech prices are ridiculous.

Assume we use 217 MC = $1, which is the most popular level of MC purchase.

Phoenix Overlord package was $80 (17,360 MC) for 12 mechs, including mechbays.
That’s 3600 MC in mechbays, leaving 13,760 MC for 12 mechs or 1146 MC ($5.28) each.

Sabre package was $30 (6510 MC) for 6 mechs, including mechbays.
That’s 1800 MC in mechbays, leaving 4710 MC for 6 mechs or 785 MC ($3.61) each.

Now let’s look at the Shadow Hawk, which Phoenix purchasers paid 1146 MC ($5.28) for, regardless of variant:
2D2 currently going for 1790 MC ($8.24)
2H currently going for 1745 MC ($8.04)
5M currently going for 3270 MC ($15.06)

Now let’s look at the Thunderbolt, which Phoenix purchasers paid 1146 MC ($5.28) for, regardless of variant:
5S currently going for 2100 MC ($9.67)
5SS currently going for 2080 MC ($9.58)
9SE currently going for 2335 MC ($10.76)

Now let’s look at the Battlemaster, which Phoenix purchasers paid 1146 MC ($5.28) for, regardless of variant:
1D currently going for 2950 MC ($13.59)
1G currently going for 3085 MC ($14.22)
1S currently going for 2985 MC ($13.76)

The prices for the Shadow Hawk, Thunderbolt and Battlemaster all ignore the 300 MC ($1.38) cost of a mechbay.

From the A La Carte Clan pricing:

1 Clan mech = 3678 MC ($16.94) per mech or 221% more than Phoenix and 369% more than Sabre
2 Clan mechs = 3317 MC ($15.25) per mech or 189% more than Phoenix and 323% more than Sabre
3 Clan mechs = 2955 MC ($13.61) per mech or 158% more than Phoenix and 276% more than Sabre
4 Clan mechs = 2593 MC ($11.94) per mech or 126% more than Phoenix and 230% more than Sabre
5 Clan mechs = 2232 MC ($10.28) per mech or 95% more than Phoenix and 184% more than Sabre
* 6 Clan mechs = 1870 MC ($8.61) per mech or 63% more than Phoenix and 138% more than Sabre

* or one of the original packages

So, this leads me to two questions:

1) Why are Clan mechs, if we use 1870 MC per mech (the cheapest rate), costing 63% more than Phoenix mechs and 138% more than Sabre mechs? Especially since PGI has been vocal about balancing Clan mechs so they aren’t superior to existing Mechs

2) Why are PGI trying to say the price of these packages is because of their relative C-Bill costs when both Phoenix and Sabre packages were priced regardless of C-Bill costs? Phoenix mechs, regardless of tonnage, engine and components were all priced the same. Sabre mechs were all priced the same regardless of engine and components.

The 1870 MC per Mech only holds true in original packages or if you buy 6 individual Clan Mechs for $180. This leaves players with the following choices:

1) Buy Clan packages that likely contain Mechs the player doesn’t want to get the best deal.
2) Spend $180 on A La Carte Mechs to get the best deal.
3) Get gouged and pay triple what you did per Mech in the Phoenix package if you buy between 1 and 3 Mechs A La Carte and double if you buy 4 or 5 Mechs A La Carte.

Great choices there; I’m not quite sure how the fanboys around here figure you did the community a favour by adding in these A La Carte options but I guess they can’t do basic math.

Look at the Daishi package; it is the direct comparable to the Phoenix Overlord package. It has assault, heavy, medium and light chassis’ with a prime + 2 variants for each chassis. The Daishi package is $40 more than the Overlord package.

A La Carte and package pricing are both massive rip-offs.

The argument that because these Clan Mechs will cost more C-Bills justifies their higher cash price is ridiculous.

How can people say "Well, they cost more C-Bills, therefore the higher cash price is reasonable"? That is a load of complete and utter bullcrap. If this argument was true, then:
1) The higher ton Clan mechs would cost more than the lighter chassis
2) Phoenix mechs would have gone up in price per chassis
3) Both Phoenix and Sabre would have priced in the value of the XL engines and double heatsinks.
NONE of these things have happened.

Can you figure out what a rational person would infer from this? This is nothing more than a cash grab.

Good luck convincing anyone that they are receiving value in any of these Clan packs.

[Kell Commander]

When the social rewards were first introduced in January the first one was already at 40%. It's been almost 2 weeks and it only moved to 45%. I am hoping and praying it doesn't go above 60% by the end of the month to finally drive home the point the are way overcharging for their content. If they have goals they want to meet, price things at what the MAJORITY of people will pay for. Not just a few people.

I bought a Dragon Slayer this weekend because I think $15 that it is on sale now for is a reasonable price, not the $30 it normally goes for.

Edit because I spell checked after posting for some unknown reason.

Edited by Kell Commander, 10 February 2014 - 02:29 PM.

[Alexandrix]

Canadian Attack Beaver, on 10 February 2014 - 10:19 AM, said:

*all of that*

Spot on.Thanks.

[AntharPrime]

If I do see the progress that I need to see with CW and UI 2.0 and PGI manages to cure itself of it's "foot-mouth" disease, there is a chance that I could drop $120 for a Clan package. The only barrier is the Kit Fox, I hate that mech and I would much rather have the Adder.

[Jae Hyun Nakamura]

Well, i'll go bit by bit for the Daishi and eventually for the Puma, because of TargetingComputer.

30 Bucks a Month is ok i think.

Edited by Jae Hyun Nakamura, 11 February 2014 - 04:12 AM.

[MasterC]

On Vlog #2, February 11th, 2014, David stated that "our plan and vision is that, if we balance the clan ‘mechs right, then an individual clan ‘mech is going to be equally powerful and viable to an inner sphere mech, just different…"

My question then is this, if the clan mechs are not going to be better than inner sphere mechs, just different, why then are clan mechs 50% more expensive?

IE, the Phoenix Overlord package which came with 12 mechs cost $80 but the comparable clan package, the Daishi collection, is $120.

This inexplicable price difference is keeping me from purchasing a clan package.

[Lindonius]

MasterC, on 11 February 2014 - 07:06 PM, said:

My question then is this, if the clan mechs are not going to be better than inner sphere mechs, just different, why then are clan mechs 50% more expensive?

I can answer that one. Because there are a lot of people who love the Clan chassis and PGI knows that they will pay through the nose to have one, even if what's "under the hood" bears little resemblance to the lore.

They wouldn't care if their Mad Cat was firing nothing but rotten tomatoes and harsh language, they'd still buy it because well........

It's a Mad Cat.

[Pando]

Canadian Attack Beaver, on 10 February 2014 - 10:19 AM, said:

Comparing the packaging, or a La Carte pricing yields the same results; these Clan mech prices are ridiculous.

Assume we use 217 MC = $1, which is the most popular level of MC purchase.

Phoenix Overlord package was $80 (17,360 MC) for 12 mechs, including mechbays.
That’s 3600 MC in mechbays, leaving 13,760 MC for 12 mechs or 1146 MC ($5.28) each.

Sabre package was $30 (6510 MC) for 6 mechs, including mechbays.
That’s 1800 MC in mechbays, leaving 4710 MC for 6 mechs or 785 MC ($3.61) each.

Now let’s look at the Shadow Hawk, which Phoenix purchasers paid 1146 MC ($5.28) for, regardless of variant:
2D2 currently going for 1790 MC ($8.24)
2H currently going for 1745 MC ($8.04)
5M currently going for 3270 MC ($15.06)

Now let’s look at the Thunderbolt, which Phoenix purchasers paid 1146 MC ($5.28) for, regardless of variant:
5S currently going for 2100 MC ($9.67)
5SS currently going for 2080 MC ($9.58)
9SE currently going for 2335 MC ($10.76)

Now let’s look at the Battlemaster, which Phoenix purchasers paid 1146 MC ($5.28) for, regardless of variant:
1D currently going for 2950 MC ($13.59)
1G currently going for 3085 MC ($14.22)
1S currently going for 2985 MC ($13.76)

The prices for the Shadow Hawk, Thunderbolt and Battlemaster all ignore the 300 MC ($1.38) cost of a mechbay.

From the A La Carte Clan pricing:

1 Clan mech = 3678 MC ($16.94) per mech or 221% more than Phoenix and 369% more than Sabre
2 Clan mechs = 3317 MC ($15.25) per mech or 189% more than Phoenix and 323% more than Sabre
3 Clan mechs = 2955 MC ($13.61) per mech or 158% more than Phoenix and 276% more than Sabre
4 Clan mechs = 2593 MC ($11.94) per mech or 126% more than Phoenix and 230% more than Sabre
5 Clan mechs = 2232 MC ($10.28) per mech or 95% more than Phoenix and 184% more than Sabre
* 6 Clan mechs = 1870 MC ($8.61) per mech or 63% more than Phoenix and 138% more than Sabre

* or one of the original packages

So, this leads me to two questions:

1) Why are Clan mechs, if we use 1870 MC per mech (the cheapest rate), costing 63% more than Phoenix mechs and 138% more than Sabre mechs? Especially since PGI has been vocal about balancing Clan mechs so they aren’t superior to existing Mechs

2) Why are PGI trying to say the price of these packages is because of their relative C-Bill costs when both Phoenix and Sabre packages were priced regardless of C-Bill costs? Phoenix mechs, regardless of tonnage, engine and components were all priced the same. Sabre mechs were all priced the same regardless of engine and components.

The 1870 MC per Mech only holds true in original packages or if you buy 6 individual Clan Mechs for $180. This leaves players with the following choices:

1) Buy Clan packages that likely contain Mechs the player doesn’t want to get the best deal.
2) Spend $180 on A La Carte Mechs to get the best deal.
3) Get gouged and pay triple what you did per Mech in the Phoenix package if you buy between 1 and 3 Mechs A La Carte and double if you buy 4 or 5 Mechs A La Carte.

Great choices there; I’m not quite sure how the fanboys around here figure you did the community a favour by adding in these A La Carte options but I guess they can’t do basic math.

Look at the Daishi package; it is the direct comparable to the Phoenix Overlord package. It has assault, heavy, medium and light chassis’ with a prime + 2 variants for each chassis. The Daishi package is $40 more than the Overlord package.

A La Carte and package pricing are both massive rip-offs.

The argument that because these Clan Mechs will cost more C-Bills justifies their higher cash price is ridiculous.

How can people say "Well, they cost more C-Bills, therefore the higher cash price is reasonable"? That is a load of complete and utter bullcrap. If this argument was true, then:
1) The higher ton Clan mechs would cost more than the lighter chassis
2) Phoenix mechs would have gone up in price per chassis
3) Both Phoenix and Sabre would have priced in the value of the XL engines and double heatsinks.
NONE of these things have happened.

Can you figure out what a rational person would infer from this? This is nothing more than a cash grab.

Good luck convincing anyone that they are receiving value in any of these Clan packs.

This is completely wrong. You've not evaluated the entire value of the clan package. I'll break it down for you using your provided consistent and in-game cost medians.

1) Assume we use 217 MC = $1, which is the most popular level of MC purchase.
2) Assume regarding premium time metric;

1 day: 250 MC
3 days: 650 MC
7 days: 1,250 MC
30 days: 2,500 MC
180 days: 13,500 MC
360 days: 24,000 MC

3) Assume mechbay cost is: 300 MC
4) Assume average cost of "cockpit item" is : 500 MC


**** The following is a detailed list of packaged items broken down by monetary value. ****


Founders package - $120

1) champion 100 tonner, 4685 MC
1) champion 65 tonner, 2790 MC
1) champion 50 tonner, 1800 MC
1) champion 35 tonner, 1450 MC
1) 90 days premium, 7500 MC
4) mechbays, 1200 MC
1) cockpit item, 500 MC
MC total of above = 19,925 MC / 217 = ($91.82)
$80 in-game MC, ($80)

total value of package = $171.82


Overlord package - $80 (non-early bird)

1) champion 85 tonner, 3815 MC
1) champion 65 tonner, 2790 MC
1) champion 55 tonner, 2000 MC
1) champion 20 tonner, 1200 MC
2) reg 85 tonner, 5935 MC
2) reg 65 tonner, 4415 MC
2) reg 55 tonner, 5015 MC
2) reg 20 tonner, 1200 MC
1) 90 days premium time, 7500 MC
4) hanging cockpit items, 2000 MC
12) mechbays, 3600 MC
MC total of above = 35,869 / 217 = ($165.29)

total value of package = 165.29


Clan Masakari Collection Package

1) champion 100 tonner, 4685 MC
1) champion 85 tonner, 3815 MC
1) champion 75 tonner, 3030 MC
1) champion 70 tonner, 2875 MC
1) champion 55 tonner, 2000 MC
1) champion 50 tonner, 1800 MC
1) champion 35 tonner, 1450 MC
2) reg 100 tonner, 8000 MC
2) reg 85 tonner, 6000 MC
2) reg 75 tonner, 5000 MC
2) reg 70 tonner, 4600 MC
2) reg 55 tonner, 3600 MC
2) reg 50 tonner, 3000 MC
2) reg 35 tonner, 1200 MC
1) 90 days premium time, 7500 MC
4) cockpit items, 2000 MC
4) bonus modules, (none to go by, 500 MC) 2000 MC
8) warhorns (valued @cockpit item, 500MC), 4000 MC
12) mechbays, 3600 MC

MC total of above = 70,155 / 217 = ($323.29)

total value of package = 323.29 (** note, this will change when MC purchase prices are ironed out and will likely be much larger)


You're welcome.

Edited by Pando, 11 February 2014 - 08:54 PM.

[Pando]

For the record, I believe the clan packages are better than previous deals. I will enjoy my Masakari collection.