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#3301 Imawuss

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Posted 14 December 2013 - 03:33 PM

Clan invasion.. What are the clans invading the same old maps the inner sphere has been "invading" since beta?

Anyways my last post until they finish a complete CW like they projected would be in-game 3 months after open beta. Funny though how can you project when something would be done when you haven't even planned it yet? So yah this is likely my last post ever.

So long and thanks for all the fish.

#3302 Kunae

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Posted 14 December 2013 - 03:34 PM

View PostImawuss, on 14 December 2013 - 03:33 PM, said:

So long and thanks for all the fish.

Don't forget your towel!

#3303 Firelizard

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Posted 14 December 2013 - 03:34 PM

View PostKunae, on 14 December 2013 - 03:34 PM, said:

Don't forget your towel!


What kind of frood ever forgets his towel?

#3304 The Lonegopher

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Posted 14 December 2013 - 03:35 PM

View Posttsula, on 14 December 2013 - 02:42 PM, said:


Really why then is it not around any more, but on private servers, and EA killed that with hey guess what broken promises as well just pointing out ever MW title boils down to combat and just blasting other mechs. If CW flops then yes I will be dis-pointed as a programmer for robots and all I can relate to it takes time to get things coded and done correctly, Am I happy with everything no as I stayed, but core was the combat is their yes deadlines are missed its going to happen. Am I going to spend a {Scrap} ton of money on clan tech probably but that is my choice not anyone else so why B**** about something. Sorry just adding my gas to this bond fire because I like big flames.


Wow you really are special ed. Microsoft killed the game by charging an outlandish amount for the rights to the game, held onto those rights for what 10 years doing nothing with them and realising hey we cant be that greedy. And that game was fun, random genertated maps, and it was free.

#3305 Roadbeer

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Posted 14 December 2013 - 03:35 PM

View PostImawuss, on 14 December 2013 - 03:33 PM, said:

So long and thanks for all the fish.


See you in game.

If I had a nickel for every person who said they were leaving that I saw in game. I'd be able to purchase every package in the Clan Pack. :(

#3306 Patrick Wolf

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Posted 14 December 2013 - 03:35 PM

View PostRoadbeer, on 14 December 2013 - 03:32 PM, said:


Nope, analogy doesn't work.
You've gotten everything you've paid for, just not the bonuses that made you go with the plumber in the first place.
He's done the bare minimum of the work you purchased, he just hasn't gone the extra mile of making it look good yet.


Arguably no, you can easily argue that people bought into this game, especially founders, because of what PGI was promising. CW and everything it entailed was a main selling point of the game. I for one dont give a flying f*** about my founders catapult, i bought in cause i wanted to play the game. As did most people. we all know the founders mechs are junk

#3307 Tolkien

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Posted 14 December 2013 - 03:36 PM

View PostThe Lonegopher, on 14 December 2013 - 03:35 PM, said:


Wow you really are special ed. Microsoft killed the game by charging an outlandish amount for the rights to the game, held onto those rights for what 10 years doing nothing with them and realising hey we cant be that greedy. And that game was fun, random genertated maps, and it was free.


I believe EA had a hand in killing it too since they were planning to include MPBT3025 in an online gaming service where you would pay ~$20/month for access to a basket of games including MPBT3025. During the recession in late 2001 EA cut the whole project so none of the games under development for the service saw the light of day, including MPBT3025. Dayum shame.

#3308 Gargoth

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Posted 14 December 2013 - 03:38 PM

View PostGorantir, on 14 December 2013 - 03:28 PM, said:

i was thinking...maybe gold reflects lasers

and i was thinking, maybe we can produce raw diamonds out of our as**s after we get our legendary clan founder overlord set with vulture reinforcement package and include gold plated timberwolf to that set by just bending our knees.


..nope, did not happen.

#3309 CyBerkut

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Posted 14 December 2013 - 03:38 PM

Different straws for different camels.

If I were not so sad for the MW Intellectual Property, this might be entertaining. It is interesting to see so many shocked reactions to this latest episode. After abandoned design pillars and broken promises being blown off by so many in the past, perhaps more of you are starting to appreciate the importance of a company keeping promises.

One has to wonder what is behind this latest offering's pricing structure. Is it greed, a desperate need for additional funding in order to merely keep going, or perhaps envy of what has transpired with Cloud Imperium Games crowd funding? Or, perhaps they figure they can get enough from the people who stick around and buy the new packages to make up for the losses from people who will now decide that enough is enough and bail (We've already seen that calculus applied before). Hard to say since some relevant information remains concealed (ie number of players online) as far as I know. In any case, it is very difficult to see an explanation that puts a favorable light upon PGI.

#3310 Aim64C

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Posted 14 December 2013 - 03:38 PM

View PostRoadbeer, on 14 December 2013 - 03:32 PM, said:


Nope, analogy doesn't work.
You've gotten everything you've paid for, just not the bonuses that made you go with the plumber in the first place.
He's done the bare minimum of the work you purchased, he just hasn't gone the extra mile of making it look good yet.


You're an interesting feller.

The problem with your argument is that you are arguing from a purely litigious standpoint. Contractually - PGI has done nothing illegal or fraudulent.

That said - a pharmacist who charges a hypochondriac $250 for a sugar pill prescription is of questionable ethics, and customers aware of the behavior would be, understandably, put-off.

The world doesn't revolve around litigation and true/false logic. The world, or at least human behavior, revolves around perception. If people feel they have been misled and defrauded - then they will behave as though they have been misled and defrauded.

#3311 Kunae

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Posted 14 December 2013 - 03:39 PM

View PostRoadbeer, on 14 December 2013 - 03:32 PM, said:


Nope, analogy doesn't work.
You've gotten everything you've paid for, just not the bonuses that made you go with the plumber in the first place.
He's done the bare minimum of the work you purchased, he just hasn't gone the extra mile of making it look good yet.

Hmmm...

Actually it does work, but you have to look at it from a slightly non-absolute perspective.

Consider that in any "F2P" game, the players themselves, and the time they put into a game, are part of the "content" that the developer relies upon as part of their game. The investment of time and energy, playing, organizing units, player-sponsored community events, etc, are all "payments" or "investments" into the game. Those are all performed with the expectation that things will get better, and that the features which have been promised by the developers will be produced in a timely fashion, and in the manner promised.

All I ask, is that you take a step back and view this from a slightly different perspective.

#3312 Firelizard

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Posted 14 December 2013 - 03:39 PM

View PostTolkien, on 14 December 2013 - 03:36 PM, said:


I believe EA had a hand in killing it too since they were planning to include MPBT3025 in an online gaming service where you would pay ~$20/month for access to a basket of games including MPBT3025. During the recession in late 2001 EA cut the whole project so none of the games under development for the service saw the light of day, including MPBT3025. Dayum shame.



More like EA bought up Kesmai, who actually created MPBT3025, Solaris, and (unrelated to BT/MW) Air Warrior. They actually had that basket service running for a while as well. Then they cancelled it to focus on the Sims Online and Need for Speed Motor City.

Incidentally a few other interesting EA MMO's died for the same reason. Earth and Beyond being one of them.

#3313 Kelvin Casing

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Posted 14 December 2013 - 03:41 PM

View PostAim64C, on 14 December 2013 - 03:20 PM, said:


My post, here : http://mwomercs.com/...ost__p__2990971 addresses your concerns.

PGI has received huge amounts of money for this game, already. I, personally, would be embarrassed to have contracted a game of this type to be developed for more than $2M dollars (and I'm including the first year of operating costs and content packages such as Phoenix - not relying on the Founders Package to subsidize that first year).

The Founders' package rolled in about $5M with Phoenix out-selling their expectations (so, figure another 5-7M).

Look at all of the $15 hero mechs running around and figure in Sabre.... plus the custom paint jobs and fancy medallions. They've probably pulled another $2-5M on that.

They've more than secured a decade of operating expenses.



I'm sorry, buddy - but I've worked software, before (to include games and content creation), and I've worked 'hard' industries, as well as service industries (healthcare).

I can usually spend ten minutes and show how a company can reduce their operating/development costs 10% right off the bat. A lot of companies make absolutely mind-bogglingly wasteful decisions. Others deliberately abuse internal contracts to embezzle money.

Regardless - it takes a lot of convincing to get me to buy into the idea that what most companies are doing is an efficient operation.

Skyrim - a game that entered development in 2006 and has on-going patching efforts - had an entire budget (including marketing) of 68 million dollars. PGI has, plausibly, seen revenues nearly 30% of that budget for a game that you can, literally, play for hundreds upon hundreds of hours (and still discover new ****). Most of that game's expenses come from the specific scripting and voice-acting/animating of main quest lines. Marketing is also a good 10-15% of that budget.

Path of Exile was developed on roughly $4M dollars before its Open Beta - and it released as a largely complete game with end-game content and fully implemented RPG and leveling elements. The beta was, truly, for adding new features and bug testing the game that they wanted to release. During the beta - the game would change rapidly from week to week and if you were out of it for more than a month - you almost felt as if you were learning to play a new game.

You need to understand that there are such things in this world as predators, and that they take many, many forms.

Right now - I would compare MWO to something that Zynga would produce. While "FarmVille" is all well and good - at the end of the day - buying the "Clan Package" doesn't really get you anything more - and the game is not going to increase in overall depth because you bought new sparkle-ponies.

Of course - even Zynga produces new game depth and new game features. They encourage you to include your friends into the game. They have more COMMUNITY SUPPORT for their games than MWO has. A ******* card game I have on my phone has more community functions than MWO has.

I mean... what are you paying for, really?


Exactly this. MWO is currently the PC equivalent of Farmville. No more money guys. No more.

#3314 Wabbit Swaya

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Posted 14 December 2013 - 03:41 PM

View PostPatrick Wolf, on 14 December 2013 - 03:28 PM, said:


After leaving your house without working pipes for over year, claiming that he is "working" on it and then tells you a year later that "oh i just started" yet you still see no actual work being done and he is still asking for more money. Thats more like what they are.


I wish I could have put it as eloquently...

#3315 Roadbeer

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Posted 14 December 2013 - 03:41 PM

View PostPatrick Wolf, on 14 December 2013 - 03:35 PM, said:


Arguably no, you can easily argue that people bought into this game, especially founders, because of what PGI was promising. CW and everything it entailed was a main selling point of the game. I for one dont give a flying f*** about my founders catapult, i bought in cause i wanted to play the game. As did most people. we all know the founders mechs are junk


Actually, we're agreeing with each other, just in different ways.

What started us down this rabbit hole was the contention that they were sold a "bill of goods", that is patently not true, you have been given everything you have paid for.

What you have NOT received was what prompted you to make the purchase in the first place.

Basically, you hired a glitzy looking plumber and he gave you a quote on the cost of materials and installation and said he would do the back-fill and replace the landscaping for free. You've paid him, he's done the work, but the 'Freemium" stuff he promised hasn't really been done yet.

#3316 Crockdaddy

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Posted 14 December 2013 - 03:41 PM

[color="#959595"]NO Clan mechs before CW and UI 2.0. That is my honest feedback. I won't QQ loudly, but this is how it should be. [/color]

#3317 Kvidar

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Posted 14 December 2013 - 03:44 PM

You're creating a -very- angry community. I'm beyond hoping that your marketing department has learned anything and am glad that other games will have this to look at as an anti-example.

#3318 Tolkien

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Posted 14 December 2013 - 03:45 PM

View PostAim64C, on 14 December 2013 - 03:38 PM, said:


You're an interesting feller.

The problem with your argument is that you are arguing from a purely litigious standpoint. Contractually - PGI has done nothing illegal or fraudulent.

That said - a pharmacist who charges a hypochondriac $250 for a sugar pill prescription is of questionable ethics, and customers aware of the behavior would be, understandably, put-off.

The world doesn't revolve around litigation and true/false logic. The world, or at least human behavior, revolves around perception. If people feel they have been misled and defrauded - then they will behave as though they have been misled and defrauded.

View PostKunae, on 14 December 2013 - 03:39 PM, said:

Hmmm...

Actually it does work, but you have to look at it from a slightly non-absolute perspective.

Consider that in any "F2P" game, the players themselves, and the time they put into a game, are part of the "content" that the developer relies upon as part of their game. The investment of time and energy, playing, organizing units, player-sponsored community events, etc, are all "payments" or "investments" into the game. Those are all performed with the expectation that things will get better, and that the features which have been promised by the developers will be produced in a timely fashion, and in the manner promised.

All I ask, is that you take a step back and view this from a slightly different perspective.


View PostRoadbeer, on 14 December 2013 - 03:41 PM, said:


Actually, we're agreeing with each other, just in different ways.

What started us down this rabbit hole was the contention that they were sold a "bill of goods", that is patently not true, you have been given everything you have paid for.

What you have NOT received was what prompted you to make the purchase in the first place.

Basically, you hired a glitzy looking plumber and he gave you a quote on the cost of materials and installation and said he would do the back-fill and replace the landscaping for free. You've paid him, he's done the work, but the 'Freemium" stuff he promised hasn't really been done yet.


If you look up above you'll see that I pointed out that they have not delivered on at least 1 promised item:

Phoenix in game badges. These were stated to be included with the Phoenix pack, and they have not been delivered yet.

Also there is the 30% boost to loyalty points that don't exist yet.... that's a 1st degree bait and switch if not an actual one.

Then there was the phoenix 'exclusive' cammo pattern that they renamed 'hotrod' like 2-3 days before releasing phoenix content.

They met their contractual obligations with the founders (technically but not morally), but they did not deliver on Phoenix. They are slipping and no longer even able to say they have met the literal definition of what they said they would deliver. For a long time however they have been failing hard on the other features that enticed everyone to spend their money.

Clan targeting computer, I'm looking at you to be the next command console... in game for 15ish months and still doesn't do squat.

Come on roadbeer - you agreed with me that they didn't technically meet their obligations on Phoenix.

Edited by Tolkien, 14 December 2013 - 03:46 PM.


#3319 Kelvin Casing

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Posted 14 December 2013 - 03:45 PM

Yeah, I have a feeling that game designers and marketers will be doing PowerPoints on MW:O in a few years as an example of how not to do F2P and keep the community strong.

#3320 El Space Doctor

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Posted 14 December 2013 - 03:45 PM

View PostWabbit Swaya, on 14 December 2013 - 03:22 PM, said:



More like that same plumber coming to your house telling you he can fix it for a couple grand, not giving you any definite plan how they're going to do so. Taking your money leaving you with a couple half naked lady tool ad calenders and not coming back for a year and a half, and when he does still doesn't have a definite answer how.


Well, that was some ago. Now the plumber is indeed back, you haven't taken a warm shower in 18 months and he tries to sell you a golden bath tub that will we really cool once you have the water running. And he'll come back for the water. Like, he can't give you date when, to you know, water, and such, complicated, valves and it gets wet and all that stuff, but the gold plated tub will deffo be on your doorstep on specific date in June, so there will be no talk of you not getting what you paid for. It's golden, and even sitting in the empty tub crying is kinda of a priviledge. Gold plated and all, you know.





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