7768 replies to this topic

[KursedVixen]

While I am a programmer myself and understand the delays related to ui 2.0 and stuff. I really don't like that clan mechs are not fully omni.

Edited by KursedVixen, 14 February 2014 - 02:05 PM.

[Chronojam]

Rebas Kradd, on 14 February 2014 - 01:24 PM, said:

Rarity in the development world, especially in the eat-dinner-while-it's-still-cooking variety that is F2P. If you can get that, good for you.

There are already explanations for why they were delayed. If you're going to gripe, gripe about that or don't pretend to be productive in your commentary.

I'm not sure I'd keep my job if I told my boss at Thanksgiving to expect results by February, and then had nothing to show by next Thanksgiving or its following February.

[AntharPrime]

Rebas Kradd, on 14 February 2014 - 01:17 PM, said:

What do you really expect them to do, tell everyone they're going into maintenance mode for six months and going nowhere with the game?

They'd lose their playerbase entirely.

Their early design problems (bad UI, CryEngine layer reworking, hitreg delays, launching without internal telemetry tools/non-rendering game mode/test servers) put them in an awkward situation where they obviously had to choose the less damaging of two evils.

I'm not saying I like it, but half-truths like that are a corporate/political reality that pretty much appears everywhere. It shouldn't shock you. Additionally, the fact that they implemented 12v12 during the approach of this downtime suggests that they had optimism for the license renewal, and it was a necessary step for CW.

And frankly, I'd bet that more than half of us would make the same "less damaging" decision if we were in those shoes.


(I am, of course, heavily extrapolating here, because PGI is - as usual - less than transparent when it comes to their thought process on the big stuff. But I think it's an educated guess.)

You underestimate how understanding and supportive fans can be IF you are honest with them. If PGI explained that they were looking for certain numbers to demonstrate to Microsoft that they could continue with the licence, the fanbase would have rallied behind them without any fuss. As an example let me tell you the story of Palladium Books. Palladium designs old school pen and paper RPGs with titles like Rifts, Robotech, TMNT, Heroes Unlimited, NightBane and Palladium Fantasy. The were in the top 20 publishers back in the day up until they had what was later coined the "crisis of treachery". Their accountant and long time friend of the owner had quietly embezzeled $1.2 million of the company's money and almost as much in product and collectibles that the owner had at the office. The company was on the brink of bankruptcy and the owner was ready to throw in the towel. Some of his employees and friends convinced him to not go down without explaining what had happened to his fans and the fans came up with the idea of selling a piece of fan art to help raise the capital to save the company. So the owner made a piece of artwork and promised that he would create a title with a list of all those who purchased the print and selecting people from that list to use as NPC names in that title. Needless to say the fans bought the print and raised a buttload of money to help put the company back on it's feet. Now this company is another company that is notorious for missing deadlines but the owner is honest with his fans and it does not take away from their experience.

[KursedVixen]

WHERE"S MY COFFEE CUP!!!!?!??!

Edited by KursedVixen, 14 February 2014 - 11:52 PM.

[nyknyk]

KursedVixen, on 14 February 2014 - 02:04 PM, said:

While I am a programmer myself and understand the delays related to ui 2.0 and stuff. I really don't like that clan mechs are not fully omni.

I am guessing it comes down to balance, if they stuck hard to the canon people would spam the best mech's and it would be boring as hell.

[nyknyk]

RG Notch, on 14 February 2014 - 11:26 AM, said:

Yet not awful enough to hold off. See that's the kind of customer they want. People with money burning a hole in their pocket who would give them money up front despite not working on CW until they secured their license, hiring mostly people who work on the stuff they can sell rather than those who work on making the game more better or having an endgame. Why should they bother to work on an end game which doesn't immediately return money when their are folks who will plunk down $240 bucks for the same old same old and promises of CW in another six months.
People say they are doing it wrong, maybe but there seem to be enough people who will pony up more for less. Next pack will probably sell for $300 for the same or less content and oh well, have more money and get to that end game when you get a chance.
I already paid enough for the game they have developed, they need to work on CW before I give them any more. I just wish there were more people who would resist the urge to spend on promises so that maybe they would make more effort on stuff they can't sell for cash quick.
Anyways thanks to those folks who paid for this model, don't complain when it doesn't get better since you voted it ok in the clearest way possible, buying in.

Yeah, hi...

You bought into legendary and overlord like I have. You know the idea, the game has a lot of promise. I am guessing we are both hoping this game also has a long life, otherwise we would be throwing away our money, yeah?

I was in beta too, we asked for a shit load of stuff in those forums. Pushy bunch us fans. I am pretty sure they have all read this stuff too, I mean we are the customer and all. Not listening to the fan base would be stupid and arrogant, I don't think they are all that. Certainly not the idiotic hubris filled money grabbers some posters try to make them out to be. That's just pure hyperbole thrown about as cynical wisdom, all the hipster kids are doing it, doncha know...

I do want the freaking metagame, have from day freaking -100. I want to roll planets for lostech and battle out of drop ships. Even relive the famous battles in co-op. All suggested by the way.

But...

I also understand the creative process, and the worse freaking thing about the creative process are freaking clients. Always so vague, always wanting to change stuff always not happy with the results. These people are a plague and I feel this way as i have had to deal with them on a personal and weekly level, but they pay your way and you HAVE to listen to them and try like hell to meet their needs otherwise you are done.

So I come down in the middle here. I completely agree that the marketing team kind of over-reached here. I am certain they are looking at their competitors and checking their business model. This freemium thing is still early days in a way and the rules are still being written. Look at Warthunder and World of Tanks as an example. Both great games, but so looking over the shoulder at each other.

So... the marketing guys note how the glorious "big spender" demo is really putting some peoples kids through college in some franchises and think, lets give that a go. Cue $260 Gold Skin.

Pretty dumb move? Big question you gotta ask... did anyone bite? How many of these gold monkeyshines are we gonna see?

And that is why I guess I got in. I am hoping they are here for the long haul, I want to encourage them that despite a possibly dumb move they can still get a bite of the big spender, but at a more sensible price/product point (hence the madcat bundle) - that was my vote and I am totally entitled to make it.

I agree with most of the sensible things that have been said in this thread, but I guess I just have more faith in the devs and the franchise then most.

IF this ends next year I am fool with money, but if we can look back at this in ten years at compare it to the awesomeness of the immersive emergent battletech game that this could be, then ha! screw all ya!

Justifications done!

[nyknyk]

Nekki Basara, on 14 February 2014 - 12:33 PM, said:

Sorry man, Harmony Gold had nothing to do with the mechs in Phoenix. You stuck it to nobody but yourself.

know your history...
http://www.terrania....ech-second.html

otherwise you look silly...

[RG Notch]

nyknyk, on 15 February 2014 - 02:35 AM, said:

I agree with most of the sensible things that have been said in this thread, but I guess I just have more faith in the devs and the franchise then most.

Why? What evidence do you have that these folks can deliver? Does their history of making grade Z shovel ware games inspire confidence? Does their awful history of over promising and under delivering make you believe? Does their pace of fixing and balancing things instill faith?
Or are you, like a number of folks, so desperate for a successful MW/BT game that it over rides your senses. That's what I get from a lot of supporters. The idea that this is the only MW/BT game in town, so better a deeply flawed no endgame having arena shooter than nothing. If that's the idea people, it's not likely to end well. PGI even said they are trying to extend their player base beyond the small set of hard cores. Apparently that's not working, so they are just going to charge more for packs now to make up the difference.
Throwing good money after bad rarely ends well. That's why the cash flow from me has stopped. Deliver on CW and fix the issues plaguing the game and maybe I could see spending. But basing it on their promises, nope been there done that.

[Molossian Dog]

It is never the fault of the usurer.

It is the fault of those who let themselves get fleeced.

[BLOOD WOLF]

RG Notch, on 15 February 2014 - 08:16 AM, said:

Why? What evidence do you have that these folks can deliver? Does their history of making grade Z shovel ware games inspire confidence? Does their awful history of over promising and under delivering make you believe? Does their pace of fixing and balancing things instill faith?
Or are you, like a number of folks, so desperate for a successful MW/BT game that it over rides your senses. That's what I get from a lot of supporters. The idea that this is the only MW/BT game in town, so better a deeply flawed no endgame having arena shooter than nothing. If that's the idea people, it's not likely to end well. PGI even said they are trying to extend their player base beyond the small set of hard cores. Apparently that's not working, so they are just going to charge more for packs now to make up the difference.
Throwing good money after bad rarely ends well. That's why the cash flow from me has stopped. Deliver on CW and fix the issues plaguing the game and maybe I could see spending. But basing it on their promises, nope been there done that.

They said UI 2.0 would be here feb 4th and it was here feb 4th. That tells me that they are capable of meeting deadlines. Im sure they are sorry for years past but its time to grow up

[RG Notch]

BLOOD WOLF, on 15 February 2014 - 11:25 AM, said:

They said UI 2.0 would be here feb 4th and it was here feb 4th. That tells me that they are capable of meeting deadlines. Im sure they are sorry for years past but its time to grow up

WOOOOOOOT they hit a deadline, oh what the UI is lacking many features requested and has awful usability in the mech lab? PGI has advanced to not making deadlines to meeting deadlines with incomplete functions. Improvement no doubt. The fact that they rushed this out with glaring issues, that they even acknowledge doesn't wipe away all their previous blundering.
Is it a step in the right direction? Of course. Does it mean suddenly they will live up to their promises? Only time will tell. But I for one am not ready to start believing in them after this. The UI is a step backwards in many ways. I'm sure it's better in areas we can't see, but still the mechlab is terrible.
Why are you sure they are sorry for the past? And yes it's time for them to grow up and start delivering on CW and other things long promised. They said a lot of things in the past that some people seem to want to forget based on them hitting this one deadline. Too early to revers all the damage they've done to their reputation for over promising and under delivering.
It's nice to see any improvement but they need to keep this up and then I will feel they deserve some credit.

[BLOOD WOLF]

RG Notch, on 15 February 2014 - 12:41 PM, said:

WOOOOOOOT they hit a deadline, oh what the UI is lacking many features requested and has awful usability in the mech lab? PGI has advanced to not making deadlines to meeting deadlines with incomplete functions. Improvement no doubt. The fact that they rushed this out with glaring issues, that they even acknowledge doesn't wipe away all their previous blundering.
Is it a step in the right direction? Of course. Does it mean suddenly they will live up to their promises? Only time will tell. But I for one am not ready to start believing in them after this. The UI is a step backwards in many ways. I'm sure it's better in areas we can't see, but still the mechlab is terrible.
Why are you sure they are sorry for the past? And yes it's time for them to grow up and start delivering on CW and other things long promised. They said a lot of things in the past that some people seem to want to forget based on them hitting this one deadline. Too early to revers all the damage they've done to their reputation for over promising and under delivering.
It's nice to see any improvement but they need to keep this up and then I will feel they deserve some credit.

its not a step backwards, man, you do realize everybody can read your post right? the time for being ignorant is over, that was trendy in 2010 but not here. and they didn't hit just one deadline, up till October 2012 they have been hitting there deadlines. your living in the past dude. Your one of those people that no watter what they do they can never make you happy, they can release CW, and all your gonna care about is 2012. going on and on promises that they never made. there was no promise, except for CW, they thought that was a sure thing but it wasn't, get over it, the game is still being developed and progress can only go forward. please leave the BS at home, when you come here bring a sense of acknowledgement.

Edited by BLOOD WOLF, 15 February 2014 - 01:55 PM.

[Shadowsword8]

BLOOD WOLF, on 15 February 2014 - 01:51 PM, said:

its not a step backwards, man, you do realize everybody can read your post right? the time for being ignorant is over, that was trendy in 2010 but not here. and they didn't hit just one deadline, up till October 2012 they have been hitting there deadlines. your living in the past dude. Your one of those people that no watter what they do they can never make you happy, they can release CW, and all your gonna care about is 2012. going on and on promises that they never made. there was no promise, except for CW, they thought that was a sure thing but it wasn't, get over it, the game is still being developed and progress can only go forward. please leave the BS at home, when you come here bring a sense of acknowledgement.

A customer with the memory of a fish sure is convenient for PGI.

Do some research and you'll see quite a few deadlines they missed.

Want some exemples? A tweet from Russ bullock late december 2013 were they stated that DX11 support was ready, they were just waiting for the christmas holidays to be over. Or the UI 2.0 that "will be deployed before the next Q&A" in mid 2013.

But the problem isn't a few missed dealines. It's the flat-out lies about features like CW were they said they were working on it, and you discover nearly a year later that nothing was done, because they wanted to know if their licence was extended.


You may not care about being lied to, but quite a few of us do.

[TruePoindexter]

Rebas Kradd, on 14 February 2014 - 01:24 PM, said:

Rarity in the development world, especially in the eat-dinner-while-it's-still-cooking variety that is F2P. If you can get that, good for you.

There are already explanations for why they were delayed. If you're going to gripe, gripe about that or don't pretend to be productive in your commentary.

Being delayed is delivering in December what was promised in October. This is "We didn't even start working on it until just now despite quoting a release over a year ago." There are basic fundamental problems with the game that have been around since closed beta and are still issues.

[Nekki Basara]

nyknyk, on 15 February 2014 - 02:39 AM, said:

know your history...
http://www.terrania....ech-second.html

otherwise you look silly...

Yeaaaaaaah except then you come back all smartarse and make a fool of yourself by linking to something which doesn't disprove my point at all. Well done you not noticing that none of the released designs are from Macross and only one is even a Studio Nue design but not even from a show that Harmony Gold has the rights to. And bonus points for trying to out-nerd someone with a username from that same series, you sure showed me.

[KursedVixen]

RG Notch, on 15 February 2014 - 12:41 PM, said:

WOOOOOOOT they hit a deadline, oh what the UI is lacking many features requested and has awful usability in the mech lab? PGI has advanced to not making deadlines to meeting deadlines with incomplete functions. Improvement no doubt. The fact that they rushed this out with glaring issues, that they even acknowledge doesn't wipe away all their previous blundering.
Is it a step in the right direction? Of course. Does it mean suddenly they will live up to their promises? Only time will tell. But I for one am not ready to start believing in them after this. The UI is a step backwards in many ways. I'm sure it's better in areas we can't see, but still the mechlab is terrible.
Why are you sure they are sorry for the past? And yes it's time for them to grow up and start delivering on CW and other things long promised. They said a lot of things in the past that some people seem to want to forget based on them hitting this one deadline. Too early to revers all the damage they've done to their reputation for over promising and under delivering.
It's nice to see any improvement but they need to keep this up and then I will feel they deserve some credit.

You do realize that UI2.0 was rushed because of people like you? It was clearly rushed because of these promisses otherwise it would be a lot better if it hadn't been rushed. Programming takes time.

[Nekki Basara]

KursedVixen, on 17 February 2014 - 10:29 AM, said:

You do realize that UI2.0 was rushed because of people like you? It was clearly rushed because of these promisses otherwise it would be a lot better if it hadn't been rushed. Programming takes time.

[Uncle Totty]

KursedVixen, on 17 February 2014 - 10:29 AM, said:

You do realize that UI2.0 was rushed because of people like you? It was clearly rushed because of these promisses otherwise it would be a lot better if it hadn't been rushed. Programming takes time.

How are we the ones who rushed it? We did not set the UI2.0's release date, PGI did.

[RG Notch]

Nathan K, on 17 February 2014 - 12:43 PM, said:

How are we the ones who rushed it? We did not set the UI2.0's release date, PGI did.

And who are the ones who couldn't get it done right on time?
BTW what did PGI delay and get right? The delayed OB due to feedback, still pushed it out too early. Launch, they certainly didn't wait for the game to be ready to launch and the reviews showed it. So now instead of missing deadlines and still botching things they have moved on to hitting deadlines and botching it. Progress!

[nyknyk]

Nekki Basara, on 16 February 2014 - 11:00 AM, said:

Yeaaaaaaah except then you come back all smartarse and make a fool of yourself by linking to something which doesn't disprove my point at all. Well done you not noticing that none of the released designs are from Macross and only one is even a Studio Nue design but not even from a show that Harmony Gold has the rights to. And bonus points for trying to out-nerd someone with a username from that same series, you sure showed me.

well that's me told...

Seriously, I did always believe all the Unseen were due to the artist making the deal with the creators of Macross etc and FASA round the same time, and that the makers of Macross etal had allowed FASA to use the art in US and elsewhere, until Harmony Gold took those two series and turned them in to Robotech and then started going all proto-patent-troll on FASA. I really did think the Battlemaster etc appeared in Robotech.

I was completely unaware that there was another player. I am familiar with the article I posted (it is old) it does not mention any other shows. I watched Robotech as a kid, and I have watched some of Macross as an adult, obviously not enough to recognise the name.

By the way, sincere, not factious, if you know more it would save me further future embarrassment.