304 replies to this topic

[luxebo]

I think Victor said that CDA-3M and RVN-3L got limited niche from skrimish and fighting off assaults and heavies in skirmish by sniping with dual er large lasers.

[Bront]

SnagaDance, on 24 January 2014 - 01:37 AM, said:

I think IraqiWalker has a good point. The list indeed doesn't adres the roles that mechs might play, which can make mechs seriously differ. So the list is in that regard a generalisation.

Then again, if you start to discuss roles you'd also really need to get into all kinds of general variant builds, and the list might lose it's focus while people drown in all the information and possible variables.

It does though, in taking into account how much each role benefits the team and how much better a mech fills a role over another mech.

Using lights for example, a Jenner is an OK scout, but good fighting mech. A Commando 2D is a good scout, but an OK fighter mech. Given there are no tonnage limits, I'll take an OK scout that can later fight well over a good scout that can't contribute as much on the battlefield most days and in most matches, so the Jenner is rated higher than the Commando.

is it perfect? No, it's somewhat opinion based, and in many ways biased to whatever the latest meta is. But it's still a useful guide, and it has evolved.

[Bront]

RickySpanish, on 27 January 2014 - 11:59 AM, said:

Cheers for the well thought out answer MavRCK, it was an excellent read. I'm new to the Atlas line and purchased the BH as a brawler to compliment the D-DC. It is an excellent face puncher but yes, it runs very hot and approaching the enemy in an Atlas without ECM is quite difficult. Furthermore the increased engine size limit is meaningless as you cannot XL in it with the intention of brawling, and the Atlas does not partake well in the PPC sniping meta. Perhaps you ought to start a petition as you mentioned to bring back brawling as a counter to the sniper meta, it would be interesting to see what people's opinions are.

Best build I've seen for the BH is 6 ERLL, tons of HS, and an XL engine. It can brawl a bit, but mostly punishes mechs at long range as they approach.

[luxebo]

Bront, on 29 January 2014 - 08:53 AM, said:

Best build I've seen for the BH is 6 ERLL, tons of HS, and an XL engine. It can brawl a bit, but mostly punishes mechs at long range as they approach.

I asked this before and if it's competitive, but I think Ghost heat is the problem. That's why I think I hear AC20, SRM 6, and 6xmed lasers or something similar is usually better.

[MavRCK]

luxebo, on 29 January 2014 - 04:35 PM, said:

I asked this before and if it's competitive, but I think Ghost heat is the problem. That's why I think I hear AC20, SRM 6, and 6xmed lasers or something similar is usually better.

Ghost Heat is the penalty system that generates extra-heat when multiples of the same weapon are fired together - in this case, firing 3 ER LL would generate 29.78 heat, which is an additional 4.28 heat. You could set up 3 firing groups of 2 ER LL each in Bront's configuration and remember that you need to wait the full 0.5 secs between firing sequential groups in order to avoid triggering the ghost heat penalties!

For flexibility I could see someone run a 2 ERLL, 4ML, AC20 Boar's Head, 350 STD engine. It's a beast up close and very heat efficient using only 4 ML and the AC20. At ranges above 450m you can be patient and use the dual ERLL to deal consistent dps.

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...1d5b4820657284d

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...eapon_heatscale

[luxebo]

Yeah I know of setting up weapon groups, but I suggested this in the older thread and then you said it wasn't the best way to run it (though this was when the Boar's Head just got released.) The build you suggest MavRCK sounds solid, long and close range punch.

[MavRCK]

luxebo, on 29 January 2014 - 07:57 PM, said:

Yeah I know of setting up weapon groups, but I suggested this in the older thread and then you said it wasn't the best way to run it (though this was when the Boar's Head just got released.) The build you suggest MavRCK sounds solid, long and close range punch.

Yea - it isn't. I'd never run that.. when you compare that build to a Misery with 2 ERPPC, Gauss or 2 PPC, 1 AC20 or 2 ER LL / 1 PPC / 1 Gauss -- you start to say... do I like it hot? or do i like it damn hot?

[Bront]

luxebo, on 29 January 2014 - 04:35 PM, said:

I asked this before and if it's competitive, but I think Ghost heat is the problem. That's why I think I hear AC20, SRM 6, and 6xmed lasers or something similar is usually better.

Setup 4 weapon groups with the 6 ERLL BH. 1 Alpha and 1 Chainfire for each hand. Generally, you'll fire no more than 3 at a time, which has minimal ghost heat.

Note, I'm not saying it's a great 12 man config, just that I've seen it used to deadly effectiveness by multiple people.

Edited by Bront, 30 January 2014 - 06:25 AM.

[BLOOD WOLF]

I smell favoritism

[The Basilisk]

Tierlist....why are there so much ppl around who try to apply patterns to MWO when there are no.

There are no Mech Tiers.
There is no advancement / level / valuation system that can be applied to Mechs without leaving one massively important point without consideration.
The Mechwarrior.
Any Mech is only as good as the Pilot who's driving it.
And there are craziely good pilots out there driving insane configs that make no sense to other pilots but who are unable to drive the mainstream cheasebuilds with full effect.
And thats it. There are FOTM Builds out there caused by the current balancing and the abhorrable wish to create spezialized boats.
And there are Mechwarriors out there able to manage the Mechs as they should be.
Diverse, versatile and effective in many situations.

Edited by The Basilisk, 30 January 2014 - 06:59 AM.

[MavRCK]

The Basilisk, on 30 January 2014 - 06:52 AM, said:

Tierlist....why are there so much ppl around who try to apply patterns to MWO when there are no.

There are no Mech Tiers.
There is no advancement / level / valuation system that can be applied to Mechs without leaving one massively important point without consideration.
The Mechwarrior.
Any Mech is only as good as the Pilot who's driving it.
And there are craziely good pilots out there driving insane configs that make no sense to other pilots but who are unable to drive the mainstream cheasebuilds with full effect.
And thats it. There are FOTM Builds out there caused by the current balancing and the abhorrable wish to create spezialized boats.
And there are Mechwarriors out there able to manage the Mechs as they should be.
Diverse, versatile and effective in many situations.

Unless you watch competitive matches....

Like last night!!!! lol 100% mechs played in all matches were.. yes.... you guessed it.... Tier 1 Mechs!

The fromage is strong with these players!

http://www.reddit.co...s_bsk_9_pm_est/

PS: I only know GrimlockOne and have kicked his butt left, right and center too often to count..

PPS or is it PSS or is it Pew Pew Pew: I'm starting a petition, LNMHG - Less Nerds, More Hot Gurls In MWO - Who's with me!?!?

Edited by MavRCK, 30 January 2014 - 10:08 AM.

[Itsalrightwithme]

Put a good pilot in a crappy mech and he/she will do okay.
Put a bad pilot in a crappy mech and it's a disaster.
Put a bad pilot in a good mech and he/she miiight do okay.
Now put a good pilot in a good mech: that's what this list is trying to do. its value is that it provides a simple list of good mechs so that everybody, including beginners, can avoid getting stuck in a bad mech and convincing themselves that that is the best they can do.

Everybody's welcome to say that they can make a crappy mech "work", but to say that that crappy mech is good for everybody, that's what I can't stand. To know what is good and what is bad you have to be really good, otherwise how can you know how good "good" should be?

Everybody's a special snowflake, but that doesn't mean everybody's entitled to their own facts.

[luxebo]

Bront, on 30 January 2014 - 06:24 AM, said:

Setup 4 weapon groups with the 6 ERLL BH. 1 Alpha and 1 Chainfire for each hand. Generally, you'll fire no more than 3 at a time, which has minimal ghost heat.

Note, I'm not saying it's a great 12 man config, just that I've seen it used to deadly effectiveness by multiple people.

Ok, I get what you're saying now.

[travelbug]

The Basilisk, on 30 January 2014 - 06:52 AM, said:

Tierlist....why are there so much ppl around who try to apply patterns to MWO when there are no.

There are no Mech Tiers.
There is no advancement / level / valuation system that can be applied to Mechs without leaving one massively important point without consideration.
The Mechwarrior.
Any Mech is only as good as the Pilot who's driving it.
And there are craziely good pilots out there driving insane configs that make no sense to other pilots but who are unable to drive the mainstream cheasebuilds with full effect.
And thats it. There are FOTM Builds out there caused by the current balancing and the abhorrable wish to create spezialized boats.
And there are Mechwarriors out there able to manage the Mechs as they should be.
Diverse, versatile and effective in many situations.

and if you fought your clone using a tier 1 optimized build and you in your frankenmech, you would lose close to a 100% of the time. in fact, if you played a guy a few notches below you in skill level using a metabuild, you would most likely still lose. because right now, if mwo were rock/paper/scissors, rock beats paper and scissors. your only chance would be having paper fight scissors.

[TercieI]

The Basilisk, on 30 January 2014 - 06:52 AM, said:

Tierlist....why are there so much ppl around who try to apply patterns to MWO when there are no.

There are no Mech Tiers.
There is no advancement / level / valuation system that can be applied to Mechs without leaving one massively important point without consideration.
The Mechwarrior.
Any Mech is only as good as the Pilot who's driving it.
And there are craziely good pilots out there driving insane configs that make no sense to other pilots but who are unable to drive the mainstream cheasebuilds with full effect.
And thats it. There are FOTM Builds out there caused by the current balancing and the abhorrable wish to create spezialized boats.
And there are Mechwarriors out there able to manage the Mechs as they should be.
Diverse, versatile and effective in many situations.

It's a sweet sentiment. It's wrong, but sweet.

[Bront]

Itsalrightwithme, on 30 January 2014 - 12:37 PM, said:

Put a good pilot in a crappy mech and he/she will do okay.
Put a bad pilot in a crappy mech and it's a disaster.
Put a bad pilot in a good mech and he/she miiight do okay.
Now put a good pilot in a good mech: that's what this list is trying to do. its value is that it provides a simple list of good mechs so that everybody, including beginners, can avoid getting stuck in a bad mech and convincing themselves that that is the best they can do.

Everybody's welcome to say that they can make a crappy mech "work", but to say that that crappy mech is good for everybody, that's what I can't stand. To know what is good and what is bad you have to be really good, otherwise how can you know how good "good" should be?

Everybody's a special snowflake, but that doesn't mean everybody's entitled to their own facts.

There are good pilots who can do well in unusuall configs, but untill things are 100% balanced (not likely, but we could get closer), certain mechs and certain configs will have an advantage simply because of game mechanics. Doesn't mean some pilots can't overcome that, but this isn't about the pilots, it's about which mechs given the owner an advantage (however small).

[MavRCK]

The only time I take exception to opinions is when it's blatantly wrong and can mislead new players into poor decisions.

You wanna argue your mustang car can play Nascar or Formula 1? Fine - but you're going to hear me say you're full of {Scrap}.

You wanna argue your mustang car is best in red? Or blue? Cool.

I'm not going to let random naysayers mislead people who genuinely need solid, practical and reliable advice.

[Vercinaigh]

While I agree with you Mav, I have said it time and again, I -do- believe that a lot of our top echelon are quite narrow minded and band wagoners. I am aiming to show this, live on our stream. My team has shown this once before...but this time we got recordings of it so people can't deny it anymore

[warner2]

Vercinaigh, on 01 February 2014 - 12:48 PM, said:

While I agree with you Mav, I have said it time and again, I -do- believe that a lot of our top echelon are quite narrow minded and band wagoners. I am aiming to show this, live on our stream. My team has shown this once before...but this time we got recordings of it so people can't deny it anymore

Advertise your stream dude. Is it on twitch, YouTube videos? Where can I see it.

[MavRCK]

warner2, on 01 February 2014 - 12:56 PM, said:

Advertise your stream dude. Is it on twitch, YouTube videos? Where can I see it.

HHoD's Drathex and Team 007 Channel - http://www.twitch.tv/drathek

It's under my link section....

One of the reasons I've avoided going into detail about specific builds is that I feel it presents a limited view and opinion of MWO. I've worked hard to focus on the chassis themselves without being specific to builds -- that said, it's not a perfect approach and hence an evolution of the tier list occurred: from going from a hierarchy approach to a tier 1-3 approach to an additional suggestion of modules and discussion of weapon balance and tactics in the videos... Overall, I feel this is a balanced approach to analyzing the game.

I often asked myself, "Will any player go wrong by purchasing a tier 1 mech now or in the near future?"

As the answer is a resounding, No, I feel this is a reliable resource for new players to understand the game and help them purchase a mech chassis they'll enjoy for now and the future.

Edited by MavRCK, 01 February 2014 - 01:06 PM.