304 replies to this topic

[Alaskan Nobody]

MavRCK, on 14 February 2014 - 10:21 PM, said:

I'm pushing hard for the developers to focus on Balance. I'm very patient and I claim to be a good listener.

I don't know that we will ever really have balance, or that it would be actually that good for the game.

It is one of the sad facts that most gamers really don't want a balanced game - they want one where they can be more powerful than the other person.

Could balance be better? Yes - and without driving those people away either (In WoW they will hold up a 0.2% or less as a massive difference)
But perfect balance?
That tends to actually drive people away in my experience.

[luxebo]

Shar Wolf, on 15 February 2014 - 01:15 PM, said:

[/size]
I don't know that we will ever really have balance, or that it would be actually that good for the game.

It is one of the sad facts that most gamers really don't want a balanced game - they want one where they can be more powerful than the other person.

Could balance be better? Yes - and without driving those people away either (In WoW they will hold up a 0.2% or less as a massive difference)
But perfect balance?
That tends to actually drive people away in my experience.

Balance should be better, perfect balance not really needed but some sorta balance, as it's not good if the competitive scene only sees a handful of mechs viable. It'll be better if let's say 50%-60% are viable and the other 40%-50% is slightly under (sorta like Jenner D vs Jenner K levels).

[Bront]

MavRCK, on 13 February 2014 - 01:50 PM, said:

Just pointing out... another week without any weapon balance changes... is that like 6 months? (I don't count Narc.)

Did you forget about the AC10/20 one a few weeks ago (that you were upset with?)

[MavRCK]

Bront, on 16 February 2014 - 08:40 AM, said:

Did you forget about the AC10/20 one a few weeks ago (that you were upset with?)

Heh - you're right.. I should clarify: no changes that lead to effective and meaningful balance in the game..

These AC10 / 20 changes are so poorly thought-out and ineffective to affect the overall state of the game, they made me create a whole article to address balance in MWO. If I can do that in a couple of weeks, with the usual distractions of a job / girlfriend / exercise / hobbies / mwo... what the heck is PGI doing!?

Note: This discussion is all about the "low hanging fruit" (a great expression I read in the outreachhpg forums) which others and myself wanted PGI to focus on after getting UI2.0 out the door.... We understood UI2.0 was a huge hurdle... but we don't want them to forget about the quick and easy changes that give HUGE benefits to the community!

In a way, think of all these posts / articles / "noise!" as lobbying... Sometimes you have to appeal in different ways to your politicians in order for them to act: sometimes you're telling them IT'S THE RIGHT THING, other times you're SHAMING THEM POO POO, other times you're THREATENING NOT TO VOTE OR BUY THEIR CLAN PACK.

Lobbying takes a lot of effort and dedication to get your message through.

And often, lobbying isn't all handshakes and smiles -- even though in a perfect world, it would be all niceness and cake.

Life aint cake.

Edited by MavRCK, 16 February 2014 - 09:46 PM.

[MavRCK]

Hey guys, fresh off the press: check out https://twitter.com/russ_bullock --- pulse laser changes!! <3

[warner2]

On pulse lasers specifically, I'm wondering whether they could simplify it down and make each pulse laser (SPL, MPL, LPL) the same range as their regular counterpart (SL, ML, LL).

Think about the trade off when comparing LL v ERLL, or PPC v ERPPC. It's range, versus heat, it's a simple choice.

Make the range the same, keep lower duration (and therefore easier accuracy) and balance it with one of tonnage or heat (preferably tonnage, since there has been too much using heat for balance in this game). Make it a simple choice. Right now it's a juggling act as they differ from regular lasers by just about everything; range, heat, duration, tonnage.

I don't know, perhaps that oversimplifies it.

Edited by warner2, 17 February 2014 - 03:03 PM.

[Itsalrightwithme]

Wub-wub-wub.

[luxebo]

warner2, on 17 February 2014 - 03:02 PM, said:

On pulse lasers specifically, I'm wondering whether they could simplify it down and make each pulse laser (SPL, MPL, LPL) the same range as their regular counterpart (SL, ML, LL).

Think about the trade off when comparing LL v ERLL, or PPC v ERPPC. It's range, versus heat, it's a simple choice.

Make the range the same, keep lower duration (and therefore easier accuracy) and balance it with one of tonnage or heat (preferably tonnage, since there has been too much using heat for balance in this game). Make it a simple choice. Right now it's a juggling act as they differ from regular lasers by just about everything; range, heat, duration, tonnage.

I don't know, perhaps that oversimplifies it.

No, but I think firstly pulse lasers shouldn't be ghost heated (neither should any of them but large pulses vs large lasers vs er large lasers, it's not a good idea to ghost heat a weapon already extremely hot.)

[Alaskan Nobody]

warner2, on 17 February 2014 - 03:02 PM, said:

(preferably tonnage, since there has been too much using heat for balance in this game).

Almost guaranteed not tonnage since that could invalidate stock loadouts, and they have that on their list of "rather not do"

[MavRCK]

I recommend people read this post by Ryan Steel: http://mwomercs.com/...ost__p__3159484

He summarizes the logic and train of thought that completely stymies and confuses the competitive community when dealing with Paul Inouye and especially when reading his posts. The logic is well-supported by 1-2 years of changes by Paul. I hope it lights a fire in PGI!

[Victor Morson]

MavRCK, on 17 February 2014 - 04:06 PM, said:

I recommend people read this post by Ryan Steel: http://mwomercs.com/...ost__p__3159484

He summarizes the logic and train of thought that completely stymies and confuses the competitive community when dealing with Paul Inouye and especially when reading his posts. The logic is well-supported by 1-2 years of changes by Paul. I hope it lights a fire in PGI!

I've said it before and I'll say it again, PGI's worst enemies are Paul and Russ, bar none. They are absolutely terrible at this as evident by, well, everything being posted here.

Paul is unwilling to admit when he's wrong and Russ pretends everything he says is right and presents these overly optimistic spins on everything that don't encourage confidence, but rather, come off like a parody from Robocop or Starship Troopers news feeds.

Edited by Victor Morson, 18 February 2014 - 12:45 AM.

[MavRCK]

warner2, on 17 February 2014 - 03:02 PM, said:

Right now it's a juggling act as they differ from regular lasers by just about everything; range, heat, duration, tonnage.

I believe in the KISS - Keep It Simple Stupid - principle. Genius and beauty is found in simplicity of purpose.

[MavRCK]

Victor Morson, on 18 February 2014 - 12:44 AM, said:

I've said it before and I'll say it again, PGI's worst enemies are Paul and Russ, bar none. They are absolutely terrible at this as evident by, well, everything being posted here.

Paul is unwilling to admit when he's wrong and Russ pretends everything he says is right and presents these overly optimistic spins on everything that don't encourage confidence, but rather, come off like a parody from Robocop or Starship Troopers news feeds.

The main reason for posting these discussions and links isn't to get off-topic from the tier list.. but to encourage the followers here to become active in lobbying PGI to make positive and effective changes to the game now. Lobbying, as my post in that discussion thread, comes in many different flavours: moral, ethical, shaming, logical, $$$, etc.

When it comes to Paul and Russ.

We can only comment on their actions - I don't know them personally.

If I look at the videos and from what I've heard: they seem like genuinely nice guys.. they might be hard to convince of different points-of-view... they definitely care...

I don't agree with the direction MWO has taken over the past year so I'm trying to influence the direction now.

(Yay for pulse laser changes!)

But, I don't have the complete picture and the necessary information to understand why MWO has taken in the direction it has gone so I'll try to refrain from commenting on personalities and assuming the worse of people for now... I don't understand the technology needed to make clients, servers, mechs, etc. etc.. all work together properly..

BUT, bone-headed decisions are fair game for making fun of!!

(And likewise, I'm fair game for bone-headed decisions I make.. where's my Jiggggggieenova when I need him? )

PS: New Tier List coming soon -- I wanted to test the Griffin but its release is being delayed again.

Edited by MavRCK, 18 February 2014 - 11:21 AM.

[MavRCK]

Shar Wolf, on 17 February 2014 - 03:52 PM, said:

[/size]
Almost guaranteed not tonnage since that could invalidate stock loadouts, and they have that on their list of "rather not do"

Part of the reason for the tonnage issue is PGi trying to remain loyal to the table top rules of Mechwarrior: sarna.net

http://www.sarna.net...ium_Pulse_Laser

So every variable is being interpreted in a real-time, first-person shooter..

Weight and critical slots are probably the least-likely to be changed.. damage / heat / range are the most likely...

[Bront]

MavRCK, on 18 February 2014 - 11:31 AM, said:

Part of the reason for the tonnage issue is PGi trying to remain loyal to the table top rules

Yup. Hard rule is that tonnage/crits can't be changed, even if that would help a lot (there's a few weapons where a reduced tonnage or crit slots would be an easier balance, but it won't happen).

[MavRCK]

Update on Firestarters:

Ranking:

Ember, FS9-K, FS9-S, FS9-A, FS9-H

Tier.... Drum Roll... 1

The Ember is IMO, the best of bunch by a significant margin... then you have the K with 6 energy hardpoints in the arms --- easy aiming! That said, like the Jenner, the Ember is best with 5 medium lasers (not 6!) for sustained dps.

Why the difference between the Ember and the FS9-H? Does 2 ballistic hardpoints make that much of a difference?

Yes, each machine gun is 1 dps and requires 1-2 tons of ammo. If you have 4 MGs you need 2 tons of ammo. If you have 2 MGs, you need 1 ton of ammo. The extra 2 MGs makes a huge difference in crit seeking and doing damage.

That said, if I had to choose between 2 MGs and 1 medium laser, ie 5 ML build vs 4ML + 2 MGs -- which would I take? The 5ML laser...

Now 4 ML is nothing to sneeze at... it's scary in any mech of any weight...

That said... If you want to have fun with the mini-Ember FS9-H and try 2 MGs -- do it! It's fun.. Worst case, you'll use 5 MLs later... it has 6 energy hardpoints and 2 ballistics..

You won't go wrong with any of the Embers.. They are all great, great and great.

Now they're top of the light tier list.

Enjoy!

Edited by MavRCK, 18 February 2014 - 11:53 AM.

[Bront]

MavRCK, on 18 February 2014 - 11:53 AM, said:

Update on Firestarters:

Ranking:

Ember, FS9-K, FS9-S, FS9-A, FS9-H

Tier.... Drum Roll... 1

The Ember is IMO, the best of bunch by a significant margin... then you have the K with 6 energy hardpoints in the arms --- easy aiming! That said, like the Jenner, the Ember is best with 5 medium lasers (not 6!) for sustained dps.

Why the difference between the Ember and the FS9-H? Does 2 ballistic hardpoints make that much of a difference?

Yes, each machine gun is 1 dps and requires 1-2 tons of ammo. If you have 4 MGs you need 2 tons of ammo. If you have 2 MGs, you need 1 ton of ammo. The extra 2 MGs makes a huge difference in crit seeking and doing damage.

That said, if I had to choose between 2 MGs and 1 medium laser, ie 5 ML build vs 4ML + 2 MGs -- which would I take? The 5ML laser...

Now 4 ML is nothing to sneeze at... it's scary in any mech of any weight...

That said... If you want to have fun with the mini-Ember FS9-H and try 2 MGs -- do it! It's fun.. Worst case, you'll use 5 MLs later... it has 6 energy hardpoints and 2 ballistics..

You won't go wrong with any of the Embers.. They are all great, great and great.

Now they're top of the light tier list.

Enjoy!

You might want to check out the 4 ML, 4 SPL builds. Since you don't always use both at the same time, the heat is good, but if you need an alpha, it packs a punch, and has the speed to get there.

A friend of mine ran it on one of the mechs to great effect.

[MavRCK]

Griffin is being released in 5 mins.

[Alaskan Nobody]

MavRCK, on 18 February 2014 - 03:50 PM, said:

Griffin is being released in 5 mins.

First thought: oh, he just means his review of them

Second thought: oh wait! there's the hotfix announcement! Neat!

[Fang01]

Curious, were you testing Thuds last night? I was a bit surprised to see you in one (and that open shoulder was far too tempting )