1978 replies to this topic

[Hawker]

The main thing I see that will be an issue is the amount and distribution of armor. That will kill off about half of the clan mechs right there since many really don't even carry 3/4's of the armor they could. When hit locations are randomized, not too big a deal, but definitely a weakness, BUT with human targeting it is a big deal. Legging clan mechs will become second nature on many of the configurations. Usually their side torsos are laughable as well. I don't mind not being able to change the type of armor, but the distribution and amount has to be modifiable or I will just put my clan weapons in IS mechs and have a better mech.

[Marcus Tanner]

Hawker, on 02 January 2014 - 03:42 AM, said:

I don't mind not being able to change the type of armor, but the distribution and amount has to be modifiable or I will just put my clan weapons in IS mechs and have a better mech.

What makes you think you'll be able to do that?

[Evil Dr Scum]

I'm very concerned about the IS mechs, of which I have invested money and time, will become obsolete. Also, the HEFTY price tags of your clan packages are daunting. Your ala carte pricing, is a sign of player push back. I hesitate to buy any at all, since all I see is names and brief pictures without any details on what I will get for my investment. Remember the lessons of the past with the tabletop, don't make the same mistakes.

Really wish you would work on tonnage balanced matches first. Six atlas on one side and Six lights on the other is a bit of a whip. This usually ends up a 12 to 1 route.

Edited by Evil Dr Scum, 02 January 2014 - 07:56 AM.

[Revya21]

you know what? Every time I post an idea or some kind of feedback on the forums I get ignored. I posted a way to make ghost heat transparent and easy to understand, put a lot of thought and polish into the post, and nobody cared. But i am insane apparently and I will try again.

a) Make clan SSRMs 4/6 fire slower missiles with less health and tracking capability in place of the chain fire solution you described. Chain firing SSRMs 4/6 will make them inferior to the boating SSRMs 2 in every way, but, if you use my solution you give the AMS more time to shoot the missiles down same as with your solution but they will still do more overall damage than SSRMS 2.

b ) Instead of increasing the weight of clan LRMs which WILL cause problems, increase the ammo/ton ratio of IS LRMs. That way IS mechs will save space and tonnage.

c) The exponential damage curve proposed for LRMs does not make logical sense. I understand this is a video game based on a fictional universe but if things make sense it will be easier for players to have a firm grasp on how stuff works and take advantage of it. My solution would be that when a clan LRM is fired under 180m it should fire the missiles in a stream with reduced tracking, speed, and overall agility again allowing the AMS to shoot them down.

As you can see I am basing a lot of balancing on the AMS system. the reason is that it is readily available to every player and is there own choice not to equip it and risk taking all that damage.

Edited by Revya21, 02 January 2014 - 05:55 PM.

[Victor Morson]

Revya21, on 02 January 2014 - 02:49 PM, said:

you know what? Every time I post an idea or some kind of feedback on the forums y get ignored.

Think your idea was ignored?

Try 90% of the player base screaming "NO" in unison only to keep getting what we don't want anyway.

EDIT: Seriously also the top four threads in the Focus Group sub-forum are all interchangeable righteous fury right now and PGI hasn't even given one of their token "Sorry we screwed you, lol" apologies. All I want is for PGI to start listening to the userbase and stop forcing {Scrap} down our throat we don't want, and I'll give them a second chance, CW be damned.

Is it so hard to take out Ghost Heat and actually balance the game? You could assign Billy the Intern to it right now and he could do a better job because at least someone would be balancing it then.

Edited by Victor Morson, 02 January 2014 - 03:56 PM.

[Stripes]

There is many different choices in how to deal with Clans in general and Clan Tech in particualar. Some are easy and direct, some are complicated or difficult to implement in MOBA-like game. But of all... You chose most brainless one?

Some time ago, a year and a half in fact, i spend my money on veteran package... Guess what? Looks like i overpayed - sad isn't it?

Keep up nonexistent work, PGI.

And now to wait another twelve years for anothe Phoenix to Reborn...

Aaand i am semi tranquil now, after some lonely crying in the corner - is it so hard to launch beta-testing realm and actually DO some beta-testing? Real one - not this dancing with issue like many other companies, big or small (and no, i wont name them ).

For example:

Just implament clans "as is" (as they done in TT) - and work from where.
Do some real extrem​e tweaking with weapons - in the place of endless heat-dance.
Experiment with missile flight behavior and patterns - and in the end find golden solution for it...

All you need - some time and work with comuunity. Is it so difficult - or you just afraid?...

Edited by Stripes, 02 January 2014 - 04:34 PM.

[Revya21]

Victor Morson, on 02 January 2014 - 03:53 PM, said:

Think your idea was ignored?

Try 90% of the player base screaming "NO" in unison only to keep getting what we don't want anyway.

EDIT: Seriously also the top four threads in the Focus Group sub-forum are all interchangeable righteous fury right now and PGI hasn't even given one of their token "Sorry we screwed you, lol" apologies. All I want is for PGI to start listening to the userbase and stop forcing {Scrap} down our throat we don't want, and I'll give them a second chance, CW be damned.

Is it so hard to take out Ghost Heat and actually balance the game? You could assign Billy the Intern to it right now and he could do a better job because at least someone would be balancing it then.

I wasnt just talking about the devs though. But yeah i wish they at least pretended to listen

[NRP]

Evil Dr Scum, on 02 January 2014 - 07:51 AM, said:

Really wish you would work on tonnage balanced matches first. Six atlas on one side and Six lights on the other is a bit of a whip. This usually ends up a 12 to 1 route.

Unless it's Conquest.

[Dirkdaring]

Jiiri, on 15 December 2013 - 10:54 AM, said:

I am strongly for a zellbrigen rule-set. EG after having fired on one mech, you cannot shoot at another mech until the first one is destroyed.

Zellbrigen will not work - ever - in a shooter like this. Heck it didn't even work in btech MUXs where people lived the clan code, we even talked as clanners.

[Beshemaster]

You know, I was going to say something. But then I realized that nobody at PGI/IGP ever listens to us anyways. It's because they're frustrated because they don't know how to get things to where we'll enjoy them and still keep things profitable. They're just regular people that don't know how to get this to where they want fast enough. At a certain point, I was like "Man, I have a lot of money in this game, better keep going so they have enough money to make the game."

Come on, let's be honest, this isn't a community directed game and I'm not sure it ever was. We stay because we love the lore and hope that PGI/IGP will make something we end up loving eventually. I'm not wowed by anything they wrote about the introduction of the clans. It doesn't make anything incredibly more fun. I think what bums us all out is that we keep convincing ourselves that there is this whole other aspect of the game that doesn't exist and is so far from existing that they're bonkers. They've barely fixed the straightforward part of the game let alone a much more complex CW system.

I'll be back when I get an itchin' to blow up some mechs or hang out with my buddies in Teamspeak.

For now, I will be here, hiding in plain sight, but watching over them in secret, waiting, protecting.

[Taemien]

Dirkdaring, on 02 January 2014 - 06:01 PM, said:

Zellbrigen will not work - ever - in a shooter like this. Heck it didn't even work in btech MUXs where people lived the clan code, we even talked as clanners.

Can't even code it properly. Here's some things to add

Weapon lock when attempting to fire at a different target? How does it know? Sometimes you have to lead, even with lasers.

What happens when a light pesters a Masakari and then scampers off. Does the weapon lock turn off when the other IS mechs fire on it? If so whats the point? PUGs will always fire at random things. Whats stopping the IS team from exploiting it so all the big guns are focused on their now out of sight light mechs?

Try an incentive approach? Whats to stop the clan from outright ignoring it? A win is a win and gives more than a loss. Which means you need to make a Zellbrigen loss coun't more than a dishonorable win, and a honorable win very very lucrative. But then how do you explain it to a guy who just finished their cadet streak? Whats stopping him from going.. "why do I get crappy exp and monies when clan?",,,, "Oh I have to do this and that? Screw RP..." /uninstalls.

Not everyone is a BattleTech fan. Not everyone who IS a BattleTech fan is a Clan fan. Why wast time and development on a group of mechs and an entire faction set for only a small number of people? Heck, the number is so low that each one would have to buy a $500 mech just to fund the light bill.

Zellbrigen only works on the TT. Thats where it needs to stay. If you want it, wait for private matches and agree to it there.. just like MW2, MW3, and MW4.

[Taemien]

Beshemaster, on 02 January 2014 - 08:22 PM, said:

You know, I was going to say something. But then I realized that nobody at PGI/IGP ever listens to us anyways

ORLY?

http://mwomercs.com/...__fromsearch__1

You got a first page response lol.

[Kaio Pryde]

oh and also why cant MWO, just let you chose from the beginning, to join the 5 clans or join the 5 houses

that way clanners always play with clanners and inner sphere players stick with inner sphere then it somewhat easier to implement clan vs IS tactics
and if someone wants to play both sides, then easy fix.. 2 accounts

[Marcus Tanner]

I think ghost heat is an entirely reasonable principle.

The execution seems like [Scrap], but it's really just the blazer principle.

[Taemien]

Kaio Pryde, on 02 January 2014 - 09:11 PM, said:

oh and also why cant MWO, just let you chose from the beginning, to join the 5 clans or join the 5 houses

that way clanners always play with clanners and inner sphere players stick with inner sphere then it somewhat easier to implement clan vs IS tactics
and if someone wants to play both sides, then easy fix.. 2 accounts

We don't know if you can or not yet. The choosing of a house currently is just a fancy forum title and a tag ingame. Nothing more. We're not even sure the clans will be playable. The 'Invasion' might just simply be new toys for the 6 houses to try and ruin each other with.

[Degalus]

Kaio Pryde, on 02 January 2014 - 09:11 PM, said:

and if someone wants to play both sides, then easy fix.. 2 accounts

Srly? So i need to spend again a bunch of money for Colors? And grind again my hard earned C-Bills & GXP?
Also i think use more then 1 Account is against the rules.
I should be able to choose the side i want to play every time on 1 Account.
So i just can click on a button "clans" the theme change and i see my clanmechs.
Its like 2 chars on a Account like in other mmos.

[Victor Morson]

Marcus Tanner, on 02 January 2014 - 09:14 PM, said:

I think ghost heat is an entirely reasonable principle.

People only say this if they really haven't thought it through; the idea is bad and the execution just happens to be worse.

The no UI - timing or huge punishment setups for the concept of lowering alpha strikes is largely the problem, and why it's terrible at it's goal.

I already brought up how you could do something in the same spirit that would work infinitely better, like Ghost Reload - i.e. every gun of the same class would effectively draw from the same recycle "pool" so that firing a couple lasers quickly could be viable, or several lasers at a slower pace, etc. That way you'd make people pay more for group fire, without randomly and brutally punishing them for it. [This would also solve 2x AC/20 without crippling it, by making the recycle slow based on how recently another AC/20 was fired - could blame it fluff wise on an ammunition feed and everyone wins. ]

It wasn't the only option. There were others. Many, many others. From hardpoint tiers in mechlab to restrict weapon loadouts to just plain nerfing the guns properly, you had a thousand ways to go with the concept of lowering average alpha damage that would actually impact things.

Ghost Heat is the worst of the bunch, from the core up. It only gets worse in the zero-UI execution we have. But I think random heat that's NOT tied to alpha damage and is impossible to completely control without external programs should never even be on the table.

[Undertaker99]

I can't understand some of the discussions.

Why should i buy a Mercedes 380 SL when it is not better then a Fiat 500?
--> Nobody would do that.
one of the best ideas I found here ist to let 10 Claners fight against 12 IS- Mechs. ( So if its 8 to 10 or 7 to 12 -> best solution will be found.)

The answer the IS found against Clan Tech was for ex. a lightgaus ore Heavy Lasers.....

I played multiplayer games on base of the Microsoft Mechwarrior. The Games were balanced because you know on which map you have to fight, the max tonnage defined for each team und you could change your configuration on your mech before.
And you had a chance with IS-Mechs . I used a highlander with 3 Lightgaus , jumpjets,...works fine

And the price idea for the clan mech package.... sorry no comment

Edited by Undertaker99, 03 January 2014 - 03:08 PM.

[Marcus Tanner]

Victor Morson, on 03 January 2014 - 02:37 AM, said:

The no UI - timing or huge punishment setups for the concept of lowering alpha strikes is largely the problem, and why it's terrible at it's goal.

Ghost heat doesn't imply *huge* penalties, just penalties that might get huge under some circumstances. What's the problem there?

Firing all your guns at once for maximum damage despite a crippling heat cost is an iconic institution within Battletech and Mechwarrior. Ghost reload breaks with that tradition.

Paying an additional heat penalty for spamming a weapon seems perfectly reasonable to me, and in-keeping with the spirit of weapons like the blazer.

Adding more strict penalties for clan mechs due to the significantly higher alpha strike potential seems wise to me.

[Alexandrix]

There's no reason at all to bother with doing all this goofy garbage to clan mechs.Just make the matches clan only on one side,IS only on the other.10vs12.IS side might also get a slight weight advantage(not counting the pre-existing 2 mech weight advantage).

Hell,if you really wanted to do it right,you could score mechs based on their value(be it "battle value" or actual cbill value including all upgrades and modifications.

But,that would mean you'd actually have to get off your ***** and do something I suppose.

I mean,really,what's the point of having an interesting and diverse community warfare system where each side has it's own flavor and uniqueness? It's own advantages and disadvantages? Who'd want that?

Probably better to just poop on the clan mechs and make them shallow images of what they should be.Then throw everyone together in a big stupid mish mash of both mech types on the same team,So we can all continue to do the same stupid robot arena garbage we've been doing for two years.

Nah,just go ahead and take the bland,boring *** easy route.

Edited by Alexandrix, 03 January 2014 - 05:29 AM.