1978 replies to this topic

[Phoebe]

I don't like at all.. just make the tonnage of clan mechs worth 50% more (so a Daishi in terms of matchmacking is a 150 ton mech) and/or reduce the number of mechs if clan mech are present in a team (an all is vs clan would become a 12vs8 match for example..). If you try to balance clan weapons to be only slighlty op, it will still make everyone buy the sligtly op mechs and soon everyone will use clan mechs... until you nerf clan weapons so much that they are like is weapons, with some advantages and some disadvantages..

[MWHawke]

http://thenextweb.co...5-years/#!pWkVf

This is what you guys absolutely do NOT have.

[Saber1]

I still wonder why they have to release this now… minus ui2.0, CW, many key iconic IS mechs predating clan tech:

Marauder
Archer
Rifleman
Urbanmech
Warhammer

It all just screams money *****...

[jebushunter]

StandingCow, on 14 December 2013 - 02:07 PM, said:

Seems to me like he totally missed the point of why people are angry. We don't care that the clans are here... we care about the grab deal so close to the last pack of mechs when basic things that have been promised as "right around the corner" multiple times STILL aren't out.

How about you wait to introduce this until UI 2.0 comes out and is good? Or how about until you have all your CW {Scrap} working and ready to go or all the details panned out?

You fix the stuff from this image, and I will MAYBE start to trust you all again:
Due%20to%20spam%20abuse.%20This%20image%20has%20been%20removed.%20Please%20provide%20feedback%20in%20written%20form.

You guys continue to make me ashamed of my Legendary and overlord tags... honestly you do.

pgi just dont talk, the only words out of your mouth should be "we sorry, the sale is gone, we are sorry, we have removed the "orange carrot from your mouth, yes we assure you it was just an orange carrot, yes we know that you know what human skin painted orange looks like, we are sorry, please dont tell the police"

thank you for atleast telling us how bad this deal is, i was afraid it would be pay to win, but know it just dosent seem like clans at all, just clan stickers on mechs,clan weapons should be op, every inner sphere mech should end up buying clan weapons all clan tech is way better, maybe if every one had a chance to buy it at the same time it would not have to be nerfed, not just people dropping 240$ on a game, ive dropped 80$ thats all i can ever spend on a "FULL" game maybe we can keep to lore if you change your pay to get content model months ahead of time, to pay not to grind. hell i dont know the lore as well as other, but maybe there some kind of upgrade "ISC" or whatever for inner sphere mech to bring the chassis up to clan grade, that way clan can still be clan. hell you could make clan lrms dumb fire and fly insane faster <-lore i think, for all lrms;

im not sure but they has to be a better way then just change inner weapons so little that it makes no difference

are you guys cashing out?

Edited by jebushunter, 15 December 2013 - 03:27 AM.

[Arctcwolf]

Ultimately, Making players pay for nerfed content is going to kill your business model.

When you cut to the chase, a Clan Mech is worth 2x as much as a IS mech with all parts stripped. Because the whole of a Clan mech is much greater in value than the sum of its parts, Clan equipment and mechs should cost 3x as many C-Bills. These mechs should also be designated as Variants/Alternates. Your Omni-Mech chassis should cost MC or be bought in packages, again 2-3x the normal price.

Your post doesnt go into purchasing Clan Tech for IS mechs. This should be possible as well.
I should be able to grind for any equipment, weapons, or engines I want, so long as I'm willing to pay 3x the IS cost for it. instead of 6 mil for an IS 400XL, 18 mil for a Clan 400XL. And for that 18 mil...I want all the perks. Smaller size, lighter weight, MASC if its included, ect. Same with Endo Steel and Ferro Fibrous.

For these prices on mechs and equipment, you should get traditional Clan Tech. The way to balance IS mechs with Clan equipment vs. IS mechs with IS equipment is to make Clan equipment easier to Crit when damaged. Old, reliable IS equpiment has less fancy and sophisticated electronics, making it less susceptable to crit hits. Double or Triple crit hits on Clan weapons and Clan equipped mechs will be more careful how often they wanna go toe 2 toe with IS equipment.

Clan Mechs, however, are a different story. To balance gameplay, you would have to count 1 Clan Omnimech as 2 IS mechs of the same weight. This would be well incorporated with the weight managed drop system u guys plan on implementing. If drop tonnage on both teams is 900, then that Daishi is gonna count for 200 of it, and that mad cat is gonna count as 150 of it.
This goes in tandem with Clan culture anyway, the idea that Clanners are superior pilots in superior machinery.

Lastly, in terms of gameplay, there should be a "Clan" modifier on mechs that have CLan equipment, or are a Clan mech. Make it so an opposing pilot can get extra XP and cbills for damaging Clan Components and mechs, much like we have premium mechs now, except the mech will be premium to all enemies against it.

If players dont like playing with/against Clan mechs/equipment, provide a filter for a player to Select "all equipment", "clan equipment only", and "IS equipment only". should be very simple to implement as the filter tree is already there for game types.

[Arkanum]

First of all thanks for the Info:

Here are my thoughts from an average Players point of view, whitch I think I am:

GENERAL: A higher Cooldown will help keep holding some of the Balance. It gives the IS the Time to get into their optimum Range and dish out dmg on their own. A stationary Target is a dead Target. Even if the instant IS dmg might be lower, the fact they can use it more often can counter the lower initial dmg.

CLAN LASERS: Keep the higher dmg and range but make them have the same D.o.T. of their IS Counterparts and just add the base dmg to Duration time of the Laser. Further increase the Cooldown by 50%. It will make it a more Skill based Weapon.

CLAN PPC: Keep the higher dmg and range. Increase cooldown by 50-100%

CLAN SSRM: An Alternative to the 2missile-volleys would be: Keeping the full volley of the 4 and 6 launcher but alter the lock-on time depending on the targets velocity. A fast moving target is harder to lock on than a stationary. So superlights will not be obliterated in an instand. (if they Stand still it's their own Fault)

CLAN LRM: Just increase Cooldown by 50-100%. Dmg scaling from 0-180 is fine.

CLAN AC: Again instead of changing Weight and Range, increase Cooldown by some Degree. The Clan Version might be lighter, but the IS Version can shoot more often in the same Time.

I know there will be different Opinions on this Matter and mine can not solve all Drawbacks. But as I mentioned: This are just my initial Thoughts on the Matter

[Sweet Baby Pirate]

The Clan stuff itself, as described in Paul's post, looks ok to me - not sure why everyone is so angry. I'm reserving judgement until I see how it performs in the field.

I totally agree that PGI's priorities are out of whack though. UI 2.0 and CW are far more important than new mechs.

[Stormwolf]

Just had to log in to comment on this, I'm absolutely not surprised that Clan tech was going to fail hard.

But people should have really seen it coming, even more so when you consider that the entire mechlab gimmick had essentially made omnitech obsolete the second it was implemented.

[Lagavulin]

I'll just add to this twenty-seven page monstrosity by saying first off, that I love this game. I enjoy playing it, I enjoy supporting it. I believe that this game is one that I will probably back for many years to come. I have no problem with anything that PGI has done with it to this point. Sure, there are probably some bugs and that's the nature of games. I can't think of one game that doesn't have bugs or balance issues that is online at this time. I still accept this game and enjoy playing it. That said.

I believe that $500 for a golden clan mech may be a bit severe. That kind of money is about two/thirds of my credit card limit. That kind of money is half a mortgage payment for me. Even $240 is double what I paid for Legendary founder status. Will I get one? It doesn't matter. Because PGI put those out as optionsnot as pay to win mechs. Those Golden Clan / Clan pre-order mechs are not game-breakers, they are just there to support PGI so that THEY CAN CONTINUE TO KEEP WORKING ON THIS GAME. I imagine that it is not cheap to run a free-to-play games studio. It's not like programmers in North America can work on a fourteen dollar a day budget. It costs money to make these games.

don't like the new package that is released? Fine, don't pay for it

.But don't complain about how these packages are a cash grab, then complain about how nothing has been done to fix the game. Games cost money to produce and the bits and trickles that the true supporters send in every month in the form of MC purchases and Champion Mech purchases probably pay to keep the lights on and the programmers paid.

tl;dr
Games cost money to produce. PGI needs more money to produce this game. If you don't like it, then don't support it. But don't complain about a company trying to keep a game going.

[zmeul]

I'm reading and can't believe what I'm reading
the worst part is that not even you (PGI) are sure about it

NO
I have left MWO quite long time ago and nothing of what I've just read makes me wish to come back
even if is to just take a peek at the clan tech

[Alex Warden]

GreatBeer, on 14 December 2013 - 02:25 PM, said:

"Im sick of PGI making promises on future features and never actually delivering!"
"Heres a future feature we want to implement but havent actually started on yet."
"FAITH RESTORED!"

the funny thing about faith is, it can only last aslong as you don´t know the truth

[Kharim]

Not being able to buy a single Omni is a mistake. I would like a Masakari but paying 240$ is just not going to happen. Make it 30$ per chassis with two variants and You will earn more.
Fire a manager responsible for this joke right away.
Do not change the weight of lrm's.
Where is my Shadowcat?!

[Action Man]

Some feedback on what I have seen proposed.
I really like what it is shaping up to be like, and fully understand the rationale used. especially taking into account no one will use the strict combat doctrine used by clans, no tonnage bidding, as well as IS unable to employ alot of the clever tricks used to compensate for the advanced tech or resorting to melee combat. what I see here is the beginings of tech that is somewhat unique to each faction yet not swigning to favorably to one side or the other.

This is one aspect I really hope you guys stick to your guns for.

My only questions at this point is if there is going to be stars vs lances.
and should clans be excluded from modules like air and artillery strikes, but end up with othe things such as enhanced imaging and targeting computers etc.

This will be a challenge for you guys and wish you all the best for giving it a go and not just upping the timeline to say 3067 where all the tech is mixed.

Edited by Action Man, 15 December 2013 - 03:47 AM.

[Alex Warden]

Lagavulin, on 15 December 2013 - 03:38 AM, said:

tl;dr
Games cost money to produce. PGI needs more money to produce this game. If you don't like it, then don't support it. But don't complain about a company trying to keep a game going.

funny, i know some companies with even lower budget that made and kept their sh** running without aiming for the manager salary audience...

Kharim, on 15 December 2013 - 03:40 AM, said:

Not being able to buy a single Omni is a mistake. I would like a Masakari but paying 240$ is just not going to happen.
Where is my Shadowcat?!

Edited by Alex Warden, 15 December 2013 - 03:48 AM.

[Vulture2k]

if you add prenerfed clan tech better dont add clan tech at all, many like and prefer the clans over anything else.

i myself started the franchise with mechwarrior 2 and for me clan mechs are pretty much the thing in battle tech.. i would rather have you balance the whole thing in numbers than by altering the stats..

give us true clan tech, but let us fight vs way higher numbers, i'd be fine with that.. even if i lose every time i'd rather play 5 vs 12 or later with 55-58-62-67 tech 10 vs 12 and lose than having lrm throwers and lasers that dont do damage and weight more than they should.

you can also give the IS guys double or triple the credits for damage and killing "us", i am fine with that

Edited by Vulture2k, 15 December 2013 - 03:51 AM.

[John MatriX82]

Kharim, on 15 December 2013 - 03:40 AM, said:

Not being able to buy a single Omni is a mistake. I would like a Masakari but paying 240$ is just not going to happen. Make it 30$ per chassis with two variants and You will earn more.
Fire a manager responsible for this joke right away.
Do not change the weight of lrm's.
Where is my Shadowcat?!

Shadowcat, nova cat, hellbringer, Vulture/Mad Dog.. All will be featured in some Clan Reinforcement pack that will cost X$ more and will be made available in the next 2-3 months and ready for release 9/14. Don't worry.

And about what you say, still not even the gentle touch to say "to all founders and phoenix buyers, you get a 20% discount on any of these packs". To HELL!

Edited by John MatriX82, 15 December 2013 - 03:48 AM.

[jebushunter]

just say your sorry, you can still take it back, we will forgive you we are stupid.

[hybrid black]

Lagavulin, on 15 December 2013 - 03:38 AM, said:

I'll just add to this twenty-seven page monstrosity by saying first off, that I love this game. I enjoy playing it, I enjoy supporting it. I believe that this game is one that I will probably back for many years to come. I have no problem with anything that PGI has done with it to this point. Sure, there are probably some bugs and that's the nature of games. I can't think of one game that doesn't have bugs or balance issues that is online at this time. I still accept this game and enjoy playing it. That said.

I believe that $500 for a golden clan mech may be a bit severe. That kind of money is about two/thirds of my credit card limit. That kind of money is half a mortgage payment for me. Even $240 is double what I paid for Legendary founder status. Will I get one? It doesn't matter. Because PGI put those out as optionsnot as pay to win mechs. Those Golden Clan / Clan pre-order mechs are not game-breakers, they are just there to support PGI so that THEY CAN CONTINUE TO KEEP WORKING ON THIS GAME. I imagine that it is not cheap to run a free-to-play games studio. It's not like programmers in North America can work on a fourteen dollar a day budget. It costs money to make these games.

don't like the new package that is released? Fine, don't pay for it

.But don't complain about how these packages are a cash grab, then complain about how nothing has been done to fix the game. Games cost money to produce and the bits and trickles that the true supporters send in every month in the form of MC purchases and Champion Mech purchases probably pay to keep the lights on and the programmers paid.

tl;dr
Games cost money to produce. PGI needs more money to produce this game. If you don't like it, then don't support it. But don't complain about a company trying to keep a game going.

i honesty wish i could like this guy any times over he has hit the nail on the head perfectly and i hope he adds me to his friends so i can play with a true supporter of this game, if you don't like it stop playing it , if you do not like what pgi is doing stop playing its that simple i for one love this game and even the grind tat i no longer need to do but still keep doing no different then people that keep buying battle field or COD do is i like playing this game, i no longer care about what new mach is out or what i need to master i play to play because i love this game and how it plays and no i don't play the so called cheese ac20 and ppc build i love stomping it every game with my boys because this is still a game to out play the other team so anyone else of the bitching little ******* can go cry more when i **** them with MG's that are called under powered and troll them with FF's why because its fun to be and see kids cry. so suck it up internet because this is PGI's game and if you don't like it leave because more will be here to play and il play with them or maker them cry.


FYI im drunk but i love this game so don't ***** about my grammar i don't care rate now or ever really

[Vermaxx]

I'll weigh in, because that's what I do.

Clan Omnis should follow the book rules for Omnis, yes...but I'm not sure about locking engine and armor values. Armor specifically, will flat invalidate a lot of Clan mechs which TYPICALLY ran lower armor and survived on damage potential/speed alone. In this game, that won't work, because people hit way more often than in tabletop, and spread far less. Still, adhering to book rules isn't unfair, you just make IS mechs far better than Omnis. Which isn't the end of the world, there are plenty of "Clan" mechs that are cool too look at. Frankly, all the game boils down to is Barbie Dressup With Mechs anyway, so models and hardpoints are more important than "Omni" and "Clan" buzzwords.

Changing default values on items is not a solution. It hasn't worked amazingly so far, it won't work later. Ghost heat is not a solution. It hasn't stopped poptart PPC builds, people just paired a gauss into their PPC builds and still have different projectile speeds - like they did BEFORE. The jumpjet "fix" didn't stop anything, because the crosshair doesn't actually affect point of impact, just point of reference. If you tape a dot to your monitor in the dead center of your UI, your weapons still hit there whether you're running, falling, jumping, or dancing on your head.

The prices you're charging for Clan participation is utterly offensive, this is the worst thing. You aren't even doing it the smart way - charge a large (LARGE, not EXORBITANT) MC fee for people to 'upgrade' their account to Clan status and thereby allow purchasing Clan mechs and tech. Personally, I'd still run IS mechs with Clan goodies. Sure, I love the Summoner and the Timberwolf, but I'm not spending real cash on them and definitely not in the prices you've slated. I paid $60 for this game, or whatever the 'elite' founder cost. That is all I'm spending until this game is really worth a monthly cash sink like WoW was, because that is all MW5 was going to get out of me. I didn't buy Phoenix, even though some of them were...ehhh...DECENT deals. I won't buy Clan mechs because I'm not buying yet another Founder pack. You have now 'presold' the game three times, and the core feature isn't out.

AND THAT BRINGS US TO THE KOOP DEE GRAYCE, COMMUNITY WARFARE. I like playing MWO with 3 friends, far more than I like alone and far more than trying to find 11 other people. I ONLY like playing it with 3 friends, and that happens probably less than five times a month now. I am down from playing daily, hours a day, to playing less than once a week. I didn't play at all for several weeks until someone said 'hey it isn't as bad anymore.' It is still as bad, if you aren't in a group. Moreover, it is a game based solely around pointless matches that mean nothing in the grand scheme.

Ghost Recon Online is entirely Pay To Win. You really need the high end guns to be competitive, unless you are a top 1% gamer or you cheat. You also cannot buy them in anything like a reasonable amount of time or grinding unless you pay some money. So, I paid $49.99 on a sale, and I'm buying guns during the December rolling sale. Just like I did with MWO, I'm limiting what I spent in.

Why do I bring up GRO? Because even though it is unashamedly pay to win, it is better than MWO. It doesn't lie, it doesn't roll back on positions, it doesn't sugar coat. You can play for free and be kind of unhappy, or you can pay and gain a serious advantage over the average player, something PGI has never actually admitted to.

GRO is also just like MWO in that every match is a pointless independent incident that does nothing to affect a world or a grand scheme, all it does is pay out the players in XP and free currency...SOMETIMES random gear rewards. However, it is far better at pointless killing because VOIP works GREAT and is completely integrated, and the character/weapon customization is straightforward.

MWO is a game set in a niche title, and you were doing fine with that idea early on. You were doing ok between 'closed beta' and Phoenix. The game started to turn a little when you resold the game as a founder-esque package with Phoenix, only more expensive. You're preselling the game for a third time, at the most expensive prices yet, and still only rewarding people new mechs to dress up and throw at random teams of 12 enemies. There is no back end to this game, it is very complicated Counterstrike. It has no goal save the accumulation of currency and equipment. I will not deny it can be fun. So can MW4, and MW4 is free. So can a lot of things.

I'm starting to think Clans need to be PVE content where players must 'raid' the AI enemies to accumulate mechs and equipment. You cannot sell Clan mechs without some kind of back end point to this game, because the tech is simply better, all the time, period. People will not keep IS tech, or will LARGELY replace it once Clan tech is available, whether or not the game is finished, UNLESS you have economy/battlevalue reasons NOT to totally pimp their ride.

[MrWhite]

I'm sure all you guys making suggestions will be taken into account and listened to since PGI has proven thus far they are really adept at listening to the paying customers...