1978 replies to this topic

[Xelchon]

I do not want dandy variants. An omnimech is a simple thing. It's not hard to implement, and it surely does not have variants. It has "config", you say it here yourself! Make the XP curve steep, do whatever, but don't mess with the meaning of the omnimechs.
...and you can do anything, but change the tonnage of a weapon? You might as well paint us clanners shimmering gold, like an inner sphere surat and make dazzling targets for the enemy...
Oh wait, you did that!

Edited by Xelchon, 14 December 2013 - 02:52 PM.

[Aim64C]

Okay, fine - I'll play the "offer actual criticism" game:

The Clans are, by definition, not supposed to be balanced.

The True Born carry with them many of the military and industrial technologies of the Star League and improved upon them for roughly 200 years. All the while, they adopted a cultural system of eugenics to breed them for war, efficiency, and lethality.

It's like frontiersmen against Navy Seals or Green Berets.

The Clans are supposed to strike fear into the heart of the Inner Sphere and shake it to its very core. The Clan invasion was enough to get the warring houses of the Inner Sphere to drop what they were doing (killing each other) and work together (to kill someone else, for a change).

'Balancing' the Clans would involve having one star of Clan mechs drop mid-way through our typical IS games and all of the IS players suddenly have to try and -survive-.

That's how you balance the clans and convey a little bit of the lore atmosphere.

The Clans come through and carve a swath of destruction against all who oppose their claim to Terra. They caused the IS to collectively **** its pants.

You're wanting to try and balance a Solaris match that the Clans would have snorted at for all its barbarism and waste.

You're not going to balance the Clans, nor should you try and balance the Clans, in a simple "Team Solaris" style game. Not and have more than a token resemblance to the Clans as a whole.

[Psydotek]

I like the flexibility & flavor ideas but messing with tonnage & critical space values should not be done. The real balancing should be done via tonnage limits. The Clans usually bid on who could win a battle with the least amount of 'mechs. Let that be represented by having those groups drop with only 4-5 players while the IS teams will have a full 8 players.

And as others have said, there are more pressing issues that need to be addressed.

VOIP. I want it.

That being said, no more money is coming out of my wallet for this game... Already spent too much and it hasn't been worth it yet.

Edited by Psydotek, 14 December 2013 - 02:55 PM.

[MoonUnitBeta]

Still nothing about what Warhorns are? Does this mean they are not Clan specific?

[Matta]

So, packages to be bought are on the market yet more or less nothing is certain about how Clan Tech will be implemented...
I always thought proper way to do it should be other way around.
Luckily, PGI can't disappoint me anymore. I couldn't care less.

[Tank]

This gone way over your head PGI. I will not anger myself over current decision - there are more important things in life where it should be applied.
But I will write my thoughts on current way of development, shortly.

Clans without Zellbrigen - it's actually decrease game depth and turn clans just in to another side - this make it less fun in my opinion, please remember that this supposed be a "Thinking men shooter". My thoughts is to at least add simple honor points system that will give titles to names with no consequences.

Clan Mech balancing - abominable at current described state, leave tech stats same as in TT, balance with most simple way - with smaller player count in a team.

Clan Mech customization - actually a valid system and I have nothing against it a way it's described.

Thank you for your time, I will really be hoping for changes and to see this game more fun and awesome then ever before in future.

P.S. That MadCat sure is pricey, but maybe someday I will acquire one for mine improvised Mech Museum in Deep Periphery - most stock and battle tortured unit will be sufficient, even in full battle ready condition I would not dare to use it - it's to sacred, it should remain as weapon of a True Clan Warrior.

[soapyfrog]

There are two much simpler solutions

1) My preference: Implement Clan tech as is, overpowered and all and then tweak where it makes sense. Force clan mechs to group only with other clan mechs. Limit team size to 6, or drop weight to half of inner sphere team tonnage. Add an opt out switch for inner sphere pilots who never want to face clans and vice versa. Matches will then be either 12v12 inner sphere, 6v12 clans vs inner sphere, or 6v6 clans.

2) Alternately (and probably simpler), clans and inner sphere have seperate queues, inner sphere pilots can opt into clan queues where their mechs are treated as half weight.

Maybe there are other ways to do it, but simply mixing clans into general pop and nerfing their weapons is not going to work.

[Mead]

You PGI guys should have implemented BV or BV2 into your matching system from the start, and then a lot of these issues would have been a complete non-starter.

Why was a perfectly workable balance system totally ignored?

[Roland]

Instead of adding in a whole new type of tech, which will be impossible to balance (because, let's be clear here, you aren't even able to balance the existing tech in the game currently), how about focusing your efforts on the REAL stuff that people actually care about?

And that would be community warfare, and letting folks play together with their friends.

But hey, let the sales speak for themselves.

Given the fact that a massive number of those of us who have already gotten founders and phoenix packages are saying, "No more" to this one, I'm thinking PGI's sales for this package (sales which should have been through the roof) are going to be lower than even prior packages. So we'll see.

If I'm wrong, so be it.. it'll mean that other folks apparently want this, and are willing to pay for it. But I'm thinking that those of us who have supported the game thus far aren't going to be duped again.

[Gremlich Johns]

This extract from paul's post defeats the purpose of having the SSRM4 or SSRM6:

"The following will probably be applied to this weapon:

• Allow only 2 projectiles to leave the launcher at any given time. SSRM-4 will fire 2 volleys of 2 missiles. SRM-6 will fire 3 volleys of 2 missiles. This will stagger the incoming missiles allowing AMS to take down more if the targeted Mech has AMS."

How are you going to implement the flechette or laser anti-missile systems that the Clans employ?

Edited by Gremlich Johns, 14 December 2013 - 03:02 PM.

[Jack Gallows]

I was going to post feedback but...[ReDACTED] for [ReDACTED] censorship [ReDACTED]

Man, I love wasting my breath when they ask for feedback. Clan tech from this design doc is horrible especially with how bad the current implemented systems are. This will just fail as well.

At least the censorship function is working. Can't be having that negative feedback, might actually show people's REAL opinions...ohnoes!

[Xenroth]

Sorry Paul, but once again I ask myself if you actually play your own game you are balancing.
I read through your post and thought if it really took you more than 10 minutes to do this Clan Tech balancing.
Edit: For example your try to balance the LRMs ... a LRM 20 still deals 10 damage at 90 meters then ... put 3-4 of them in a Mech and its still enough to kill a light/medium mech within a range below 180 meters with 2 or 3 vollys

You try to balance the stuff with ghostheat and damage, while its all about critslots and tonnage.
Sorry to say this, I really was a fan and had hope until October/November in this game, but I miss the stuff you announced, that should already be in the game like U.I 2.0, private matches, or CW ...

The longer you take, the more I tend to throw my money to Chris Roberts and Star Citizen, because he looks like he invested a lot of time about thinking how his own Universe will work and might be balanced

Edited by Xenroth, 14 December 2013 - 03:01 PM.

[Niyack]

Jump Jets should be apart of the modular design side. However, I can't seem to find an example of this outside of Adian Pryde's Mad Cat where he wanted jump jets cause he was use to them from normally piloting a Thor.

[Victor Morson]

Edustaja, on 14 December 2013 - 02:31 PM, said:

Yeah, the problems are Clan versions of Endo, Ferro, XL and DHS. After these you could maybe take a look at the weapons...

I should have mentioned that.

This boils down to:

PGI: We don't want Clan 'mechs to dominate! So we reduced them from Gods to Demigods. We are awesome at balance, enjoying NARCs yet?

[Thariel]

so you let us customize is mechs as hell but disallow for the same thing for clan OMNI mechs (engine, structure etc)?
rightout ridicolous.

[Deathlike]

When I ever reference Paul in my mind with respect to balance, all I can think of is Paul's "personal 19 SHS K2".

That in itself says it all.

Edited by Deathlike, 14 December 2013 - 03:03 PM.

[Jetfire]

I like that you are keeping the OMNI Mech feel as it is basically essential.

Clan tech... you have a ways to go on.

Lock tonnage. Other than that, yes, beam duration makes sense, higher heat is a good trade off. LRM's warm up range should work. SSRM's I guess is better than nothing, but how about something like they have a softer lock and cannot manuever as tightly. This would make them worse at light killing unless you get a good shot on them.

[Joker Two]

I really appreciate your attempt to balance Clantech. I urge you to avoid modifying the weight or crit slots of any items, even (ESPECIALLY) Clan missile systems, as those changes would likely invalidate many stock configurations. I realize this will prove a challenge, but would otherwise nullify many iconic Clan 'Mechs.

I would still prefer asymmetric matchmaking (i.e. 10 v. 12, or even 10 v. 16), but it's nice to see you're thinking about this ahead of time.

[KHETTI]

The basic ideas for clan mechs sounds quite interesting, i like the idea for swapping parts from other clan variants, but engines and other equipment are fixed.
Only thing that worries me is armor allocation and not being able to change it.
We shall see how this plays out, but if it works PGI done good.

PS. Please make a point of making sure that current problems are resolved first though, its about winning hearts and minds, and PGI have a fair bit of catching up to do.

Edited by KHETTI, 14 December 2013 - 03:09 PM.

[Blurry]

Thank you for the entertainment this weekend PGI. If I had any trust or confidence you could pull anything off I might buy something. This is so much more fun and enjoyable.

Is this community warfare?
Bravo Sirs Bravo.....