1978 replies to this topic

[CoffiNail]

[Will9761]

Thanks for the update about Clan Tech.

[Belorion]

So, if we buy a Clan pack, but belong to an IS faction, can we play all of the mechs we own, or are we restricted to the IS mechs we own?

[MWHawke]

You guys are incredible.. Here you are going on and on about balance and how to do it individually when all you need to do is to implement a value-based system. Stop thinking using your feet and use your brains for a change.

[Stickjock]

Since I've been absent for a "while" now... I'm more than willing to give a wait and see what transpires with the upcoming Clan Tech...

First read from Paul and the Team sounds good... and pretty fair as to the entire balancing issue... so it's just a matter of wait and see how things will play out... tho' honestly, I'm sure they'll do what's best in the end...

[ipox]

Locan Ravok, on 14 December 2013 - 03:55 PM, said:

I would prefer that clans would be balanced by metagame means: Like 12 IS vs 5 clans, or battle value.

BattleValue(2.0) and Star (5 Clan 'Mechs) vs Company (12 IS 'Mechs) is the only way. Instead of trying to reinvent the wheel with Tonnage limits, use BV and numbers. The BV system includes calculations for "better pilots" (cf. Elo), so use that also on some scale you can tweak to reasonability.

Do not mess with Clan tech tonnage and space allocation. Do not mess with Clan tech damage significantly. Beam duration? Really? So in your fluff, Clan engineers have spent 300 years making weapons WORSE than when they started with Star League tech? Let them be unbelievably better. It SHOULD take 2+ IS 'Mechs' working together to take down one Clan front-line OmniMech/pilot. IS tech is all about "working together" (cf. C³). Use that. Don't ruin the IP with unnecessary tweaks.

BV > all

This is my first MWO "brown soup" forum post ever. It is also likely my last just because I don't want to get dragged in. For the record, on FAITH ALONE at this point, as a Legendary Founder, Overlord Phoenix, Sabre Reinforcment, and now Warhawk package purchaser (and 1-2 significant MC-only purchases along the way), I very much want you to succeed. Good luck.

On a wing and a prayer, I suppose...

*Edit*

I should also say that I bought the package because I love the Warhawk/Masakari above all others -- but that I'm Davion as my tag suggests (plus some Merc/FRR leanings) and will likely not prioritise Clan 'Mech play for anything other than fun and occasional nuance.

Edited by ipox, 14 December 2013 - 04:44 PM.

[BladeSplint]

I'm a little worried as to the fact that we will not be able to redistribute armor, at least on the ST and CT. The stock configs all have way too much back armor, and if the Clan mechs follow in that pattern I fear they might be DOA.

[Magitek]

I don't think stock mechs should be broken. I think there should be no change to weapon/equipment tonnage. If someone wants to run a classic Timber Wolf Prime they should be able to. Changing tonnages starts to drift well into some other robot game. Balance some other way.

Examples:

Clan LRMs could have a shorter max range and no min range, more heat, limited tracking closer than 180m, etc.

[Victor Morson]

Belorion, on 14 December 2013 - 04:33 PM, said:

So, if we buy a Clan pack, but belong to an IS faction, can we play all of the mechs we own, or are we restricted to the IS mechs we own?

Anyone can have them.

I hope you enjoyed your IS 'mechs. Upgrade now please

[Victor Morson]

Stickjock, on 14 December 2013 - 04:35 PM, said:

Since I've been absent for a "while" now... I'm more than willing to give a wait and see what transpires with the upcoming Clan Tech...

First read from Paul and the Team sounds good... and pretty fair as to the entire balancing issue... so it's just a matter of wait and see how things will play out... tho' honestly, I'm sure they'll do what's best in the end...

Again it doesn't matter what nerfs they do if ultimately it is better.

You could take Clan tech and make it COMPLETELY the same, but keep the Clan weights and tonnage - or even just subtract 1 ton from each gun, let's not go crazy - and that's STILL better than IS stuff.

IT doesn't matter if it's LESS better than before, it's STILL better.

It cannot be balanced without a value system like you say, period.

[Scratx]

*Clan Omnimech customization sinks in*

*eyes Kit Fox*

Oh, my, that mech is dead on arrival in this game. No, really. 97kph at ~73% armor. On a 30 ton mech. In this game's meta I can already hear the howling.

At least I don't think any of the remaining mechs is as badly armored. And yeah, you should be able to put jumpjets in pod-space, at least!

[Void Angel]

So what're the "custom modules," "war horns," and etc? This is mostly a concern for the Clan packages, but it matters for balance, too. I mean, I think. Assuming it's part of Clan implementation... We just don't know, and we need to.

[CaptKnut]

Some very interesting balancing ideas. An interesting take on the modular side of the OmniMech designs and the possibility of not being able to modify certain crit parts (engine, armour distribution/type, etc.) will be a big part of it. Changing some of the weight values of equipment isn't the best idea, but as they stated these aren't fixed ideas, they're just the latest thinking and all is subject to change. At least now we can discuss potential design ideas instead of trying to second-guess (which seems a few folks have been doing).

Overall, a rather promising first post on the issue from the devs.

[Mighty Spike]

Yeah Niko!

[MisterPlanetarian]

The best part though by far is the tabletop rulework for omnimech internals. It's excellent to balance assaults and heavies but gets more problematic the lighter you go as clan mechs tend to favour lower speed with insane firepower in the light mech department.


I also hope we can strip and add armor despite everything. The fact that we can do it on IS mechs is contradictory to Canon. Having like 15/19 tons on your front as an atlas would make you topple over and faceplant if you so much as looked at something from the wrong angle if weight distribution was a concern to the design.

[Bartholomew bartholomew]

Praehotec8, on 14 December 2013 - 04:22 PM, said:

Some interesting ideas, but changing tonnage seems like a bad idea, and STOCK ARMOR IN THIS GAME!?!?!!

Imagine how the jagermech would be if they all had to run the stock armor. I don't think I need say anything else to make my point. This idea needs to be thought through a little more.

Edit: okay, also the fact that engine size and torso twist speed/aiming ability is a big deal. Imaging if all mechs ran their stock engine... I worry a little that the clans may be UNDERPOWERED.

More than underpowered. There will bo NO way to put in a lighter engine/decrease weight otherwise to help make the mechs more heat neutral.

These will all be hot, heavy, underarmored, slow mechs that only have range going for them. And even that is going to be cut back. Looks like the inner sphere mech will be the OP clan mechs. Especially since they will have better armor numbers and engines to play with. Then give them clan weapons and the ability with to mount EVEN MORE heat sinks then the clans. The ONLY purpose of a clan mech is going to be target practice. Especially on the maps we have now.

Edited by Bartholomew bartholomew, 14 December 2013 - 04:49 PM.

[Metafox]

Thanks for updating us on the progress with clan tech. It's reassuring to get some concrete details. I like the idea of giving clan tech a slight stat advantage at the cost of increased difficulty/complexity. The concept seems to fit the lore pretty well and hopefully it will fill a gameplay niche without unbalancing things.

[MisterPlanetarian]

Armor distribution needs to be modifiable unless PGI fixes stock armor to be more in line with MWO, I-E front loaded mostly with leg armor stripped to max out torso armor.

[Belorion]

They could always just do 12 v 5, and leave them at the old values.

Still curious about whether the mech packs are even playable by everyone, or do you need to pick Clan to play them.

240 is a much bit to pay to watch digital mechs rust in the hanger.

[Sentinel373]

i like these idea's. but i wonder how they are going to impact gameplay. i gues we'll find out in june.