1978 replies to this topic

[Alek Ituin]

GalaxyBluestar, on 16 December 2013 - 02:52 AM, said:

but everyone with a brain has toldem don't give clans equal numbers. if they implemented dropship style mode into the game a clan team could face 3-4 waves of IS players so the IS can have respawns {new experience} the IS get many more numbers and the clans don't have to be ruined for "balance". everyone wins!

This would be accurate to the lore, correct? The only reason the IS wasn't wiped out was because they just had MORE materiel, holding back the Clans with floods of Battlemechs.

I'd love to be a clanner fighting wave after wave of IS players with no respawns, no repair, and no rearm until the match is over.

[Karl Split]

I love my island, it has mechcommander 2 and mechwarrior 3 on it

My five cents make clan tech as tabletop (op), split up the clan and IS queues so peeps can use the mechs as intended and create a special cw mode where op clan mechs can take on greater numbers of ****** IS mechs in the invasion if they want to and try and fight their way across the Innersphere (you know, LIKE HOW MECHWARRIOR IS SUPPOSED TO BE PLAYED).

You can artifically balance the weight difference or cbill costs between the two sides so in the end it will be a playable fight (IS is supposed to be hard mode anyways).

I'd then reset the invasion every 6 or 12 months with a big score board of the best clans/merc companies etc with mc and premium time awards for the top guys and gals. It'd give us all something to fight for without it ending up like eveonline where one or two entities own everything and all the other entities and sucking varying amounts of member to hold space.



Prenerfed to hell clans sheeah riiight im IS but even I can see this is a {Scrap} plan.

Well have fun with your gold mechs, I'll be back if you implement CW and don't add a bunch of nerfed Clan mechs with special pay only modules thank you.

[Jungle Rhino]

I would have preferred assymetrical warfare - i.e. utilising Community Warfare to setup matches of 5 Clan (star) vs 8 IS (2 lances) - or something along those ratios. Even 10 vs 16 would have worked and 26 mechs on the map isn't a lot different to 24 so your tech should be able to support that.

BUT

Community warfare is nowhere close to ready and your Clantech is being released prematurely as a giant moneygrab in a desperate attempt to stave off financial ruin. I can only presume that IGP has got you on a quarterly PNL that you have to hit or they pull the plug on you.

Seems like the tail is wagging the dog to me.

[Miken]

We don't need strong 10vs12 balance. We need BV -balance system or something close to it. Otherwise how do you plan to balance mixtech, like salvaged/clan mechs from blackmarket on the IS side? BTW mercs, and some fractions have clan mechs and clan tech.

Edited by Miken, 16 December 2013 - 03:24 AM.

[bleedingme]

Dear guys at PGI,
I am truly interested in getting these OmniMechs. And I am up to pay for it, too.
But not at this point.
You wrote about reducing some advantages the Clan Mechs would have to get something called balance.
Sorry, this is nonsense.
Clans ARE overpowered due to the techlevel of their military equipment. It doesn't matter, if there is an advantage of 20m or50m, of 1 damage point or 3, of 1ton or 2. These Mechs are overpowered, and they have to be! That's the bottom line of the story!
But there is a way to balance that -just the same way Inner Sphere did in this story: Majority in number and tonnage. That's the only way to get this working without destroying BT feeling.
We simply need a working matchmaking system... oh, wait...

Show me a new UI including Community Warfare and a well working matchmaker, and you will get my 240 bucks promptly.

[Autobot9000]

GalaxyBluestar, on 15 December 2013 - 10:35 PM, said:

i've just noticed the Nova will have lots of toros twist...



a mech that is famous for having a fixed torso made in MW2 and 3 is having it's functionality canned for more vannilla flavour capabilities. that looks like a deformed Ryoken

THIS IS A NOVA!



this whole game is being nerfed and watered down to an same-me vannilla experience.

Complaining about the clan mech artwork is probably the silliest thing I can imagine. I think theres tons of stuff you can rightfully rage about, but the artwork is of the finest and absolutely fantastic.

Ensaine, on 16 December 2013 - 02:58 AM, said:

THIS is a Timberwolf:

What this concept art is, I have no clue. Maybe a later variant? Looks like a TW on steroids......looks nice, just not a TW.

I actually even like PGIs version better than any other Timberwolf I have ever seen.

[Blue Shadow]

So the weapon balance proposals are generally not not too bad, (so far) but where is the information about: 1) 10vs12?, 2) lower tonnage limits for clans?, and 3) mixed or no mixed tech?... Those three points would have a greater effect on balance then heavy handed weapon nerfs...(some changes to weapons are needed I know) but if the above 3 points are implemented the clans would have more unique flavor.

P.S the price of the clan packs are way too high!!, we need cheaper alternative packs to get the mechs we wont, your pricing your self out of the market PGI.

[Nihtgenga]

Weapon balancing can NOT substitute proper weight/BV balancing, which is inevitable for storyline-adherent = immersive gameplay including the clans. I even think that a general weaponry makeover is necessary to not get unwanted side-effects (detailed some 20 pages ago).

[TheMadTypist]

You've received a lot of feedback along these lines already, but don't change tonnage of equipment to suit balance concerns, use soft tonnage requirements instead. These include less ammo per ton, and greater heat (not ghost heat, just heat), which force pilots who want to sustain those levels of firepower to carry considerably more supporting tonnage per launcher than an IS equivalent.

You could also compensate by making them less effective at their intended role of indirect fire, which I believe could be achieved by reducing the arc and tweaking travel speed to make sure time to target remains the same, and/or reducing the tracking strength of clan LRMS in the final third of their trajectory. More missiles bouncing off cover with clan launchers potentially reduces the damage advantage, as well as providing tactics and gameplay the IS equivalent can do better, even at increased tonnage.

[Ogunn]

MischiefSC, on 14 December 2013 - 02:27 PM, said:

Ow. First few posts and we're already into scorched earth.

I do appreciate the approach to balancing clan tech. It's actually got some great ideas to recommend it. Combine that with relative tonnage restrictions and it might work.

Here are the concerns I have.

1. Based on the current model it will be December of 2014 before a cbill variant of the Timber Wolf, for example, is available. So you are essentially saying that if anyone wants to play anything other than a clan light, maybe a medium, we have to either pay a couple hundred dollars or wait a year. While this isn't 'pay to win' it's pretty much 'pay to play'. This isn't about playing a particular chassis but access to one whole faction in the game.

2. Without a fix to the meta (AC/PPC or stay in the kiddie pool) the clans are not going to be the significant change to the game they should be. There have been recommendations (give PPC/AC and 0.3 to 0.5 second DOT effect, enough to limit the pinpoint effect of poptarting while still making them accurate. Remove gauss charge-up, leave it pinpoint. That's my favorite anyway) but the meta itself is pretty stale at the higher competitive end where Clans *should* be significant.

3. UI 2.0, CW, fixes for SRMs, hit detection, it's a long list. To release clans in a high priced system and gold mechs (there is no worse way to have done this BTW. For future reference. Maybe if you'd made them 'Khan mechs' with clan-specific paint you'd have done far better. As it is you're asking people to pay $500 for a mech that will likely get them TKed) while all that's missing really pours salt on those wounds.

4. The Phoenix Mechs were a poke in the eye. 1 mech in the bundle was good. The Shadowhawk. 60 degree turn on the 1G? Really? I get where you didn't want it to seem P2W but.... really? Hardpoints are bad (for the current meta anyway) and as a given rule everything but the Shadowhawk was DOA. Many of us feel like we spent $80 for a Shadowhawk and some the next generation of Dragons and Awesomes. Can you give us a good reason to trust you that the Clan Mechs won't end up being trash, save maybe one medium? Does giving you $240 mean I get two mechs that are decent instead of one? Not trying to sound bitter here but I'm sincerely asking, on what basis should we put the trust to give you 4x as much money when the last offer literally delivered only 1/4th the goods as decent quality and 3/4ths as muck.

Umm I know this is post is supposed to be about Clan Tech, but I had to respond to mischiefs comments about the Phoenix Mechs. You said all but one DOA? Huh? What? If my KDR were based on just the Phoenix mech I would have a KDR of 2 - 3!! All the Phoenxi mechs are awesome!! Except for the Locust. I have created great builds on all of the variants. I also think the 80 bucks was well spent. I do not know why you dont like them. I activley play with about 3 dozen clan mates. So far you are the first I have heard say all but the shadow hawk is doa.

[Karl Streiger]

The Concept in the current state would be adequate - for the release of one or two Concept Arts together with a maybe introduction at Sommer 2014....its a joke regarding the package sale that was released in the same moment.
Good work - or in other words - where did you earned you knowlege of human nature - on a ISLAND?

[Risen]

I really don't know where to start...except for my utter disappointment for the pricing of the packs and the very questionable idea of creating gold mechs.

Clan tech in TT is very strong compared to IS tech levels 1 and 2 and even and battles won by the IS side where only to be accomplished with lots of sacrifices. And here we have the first problem, that most players do not want to be the ones sacrificing themselves for the team to win.

The balancing ideas for clantech are heavily flawed in many cases, though I like the idea for the hardpoint changes by changing parts from other variants (with some adjustments being made for IS mechs) :

• Changing crit space or weight would destroy all stock mechs and their variants (as being said more than often before).
  
• Keeping fixed components on Clan Mechs is not bad but leaves the Clans with a top speed of 90kph for the beginning, speed should be the Clan's ally not their downfall.
  
• Reducing the advanced range on Clan weapons will balance out clan vs IS immediately because of the speed advantage on the IS side to close the firing gap very fast.
  
• Keeping the stock armor values will make some chassis unplayable because the MWO metagame forces you to run max armor on almost every chassis.
  
• As at least one poster above has thought out, why not keep Clan-LRMs with all the TT stats and perks but remove the ability to fire indirectly so cap the range at 720m and remove the ability to spot for indirect fire. There is not much honor in staying in cover to launch LRMs anyway. Maybe a module needed on "spotter" and launcher" may allow it (or not) later...
  
• Clan-Streaks should keep their normal TT values (including the range of 360m) but should have a higher reload time than their non streak counterparts (50% higher perhaps). They should also only be able to lock on a target when it is in firing distance and in clear line of sight. Indirect scouting would not count.

And now to some basic changes that had to be brought into the game ages ago:

• Remove ghost heat (it won't be needed with the other changes)
  
• Set the heat maximum to 30 points (maybe 33 or 35 with pilot lab bonuses) but give a high heat dissipation rate in regard of the amount and kind of heatsinks. (coolant flush should give you a 5/10 second boost of maybe 100% to your heat dissipation rate then)
  
• add the minimal ranges to AC2's (180m), AC5's (90m), UAC5's (60m) and gauss rifles (60m)
  
• bring ballistic ranges in line with energy weapons
  
• restrict the amount of custom IS builds by adding hardpoint size restrictions on weapons (it is a good balance to lower clanmech armor and speed)
  
• increase falling damage for jumping mechs if they do not keep a set amount of JJ fuel in reserve for landing (may be indicated with an additional bar on the JJ scale and modified by the amount of JJ's on the mech i.e. 1/4 needs 33% to keep while 4/4 only needs 10% to keep). Maybe landing without JJ reserve should have a chance to falling down and taking more damage
  
• bring back (repaired) collision (with maybe a module) for Death from above and ramming attacks for IS mechs only
  
• please forbid cross-teching completely and keep Clanmechs for Clan-Players exclusively.

Just my few thoughts to maybe save this game.

[Mighty Spike]

Ensaine, on 16 December 2013 - 02:58 AM, said:

THIS is a Timberwolf:

You have no other things to worry bout? The new Designs ARE AWEEESOME!!!


By the way: PGI im really fine with this all. Who wants to buy ok,who not,also ok. The Way you want to balance need some points to think over but so far its good. But plz fire your PR manager or send him ack to school. Better you had posted the Design update first and then the Packages maybe with a screeni of the Timby or Warhawk...

Edited by Mighty Spike, 16 December 2013 - 05:18 AM.

[Karl Streiger]

Mighty Spike, on 16 December 2013 - 05:14 AM, said:

You have no other things to worry bout? The new Designs ARE AWEEESOME!!!

I hope not - because maybe like the Awesome they will get wonky hitboxes
Or the 3D models are unable to keep the quality of the design...
to many question marks - if you ask me.

Althoug something positiv - the choice of ClanMechs is a good one. (although i guess the reason has something to do with game play - or equipment that has to be coded - or maybe even ECM - only version with ECM is the Kit-Fox C - and i guess we won't see this variant)

[Red Plague]

I like it keep it up

I don't understand all the negative comments .. must just be me

[_Speirs]

In my opinion difference between Clans and IS schould focus on different mech builds for:
IS - massive tactics, grouping fire, scouts with C3 computers, artilery, etc. = regular heavy WAR!
CLAN - one vs one duels, personal pilot skills, etc. = "In group but alone"

Some suggestions:
1) Clan technology should be overpowered comparing to IS tech (Cmech schould be competetive in battle with ie. two comparable ISmechs).
2) Clans should have another modules than IS and IS modules should be better than CLAN ones (WAR vs DUELS?).
3) Present targeting system is pure C3 for me, so leave it for IS but CLANS shouldn't use same system. Ie. when my starbuddy lock on target - only he KNOWS the target and he may say it to me. But I can lock on targets, know their specs, damage, etc. only when they are in sensor range of MY OWN mech.
4) Battle tonnage should be different for CLANS and IS. (1 CLAN = 2 IS?) or BV should be introduced.

[Shiro Matsumoto]

so... Clan Mechs have fixed Number of heatsinks and armour values of the Tabletop?
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This is the core of the Mech, with all the modular bits stripped out, and what remains cannot be customized at all. These include:

• The engine type and rating
  
• The number and placement of a minimum number of heatsinks
  
• The amount and distribution of armor
  
• The armor type and the location of any critical slots occupied by Ferro-Fibrous
  
• The internal structure type and the location of any critical slots occupied by Endo Steel
  
• Enhancements such as MASC
  
• The occasional weapon or other piece of equipment (e.g. jump jets) that is included as part of the base configuration

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

AHA AHAHAHAHAaaaaa..... *gargle*

They are worse than normal IS Mechs now when fighting against decent mech-builders, cause it has non-customezable armour.. the same Heatsinks as the base model.... and cannot tinker with the engine...

LOOOOL... sorry..

First Gold mechs then this.. time to deinstall.

Edited by John McFianna, 16 December 2013 - 05:40 AM.

[NuclearPanda]

StandingCow, on 14 December 2013 - 02:07 PM, said:

Seems to me like he totally missed the point of why people are angry. We don't care that the clans are here... we care about the grab deal so close to the last pack of mechs when basic things that have been promised as "right around the corner" multiple times STILL aren't out.

How about you wait to introduce this until UI 2.0 comes out and is good? Or how about until you have all your CW {Scrap} working and ready to go or all the details panned out?

You fix the stuff from this image, and I will MAYBE start to trust you all again:

Due%20to%20spam%20abuse.%20This%20image%20has%20been%20removed.%20Please%20provide%20feedback%20in%20written%20form.

You guys continue to make me ashamed of my Legendary and overlord tags... honestly you do.

I also have to chime in and quote the above. While I appreciate the work that you're attempting to do PGI, delivering on previous promises promptly is what will win our attention and adoration.

Continuing to fail on the above is what is drawing the ire of the community.

Despite dropping for Legendary Founder AND Overlord, I can assure you that I and many others will absolutely drop no additional monies on mech packages until you begin to implement what you should have done many months ago.

If development is such an issue, please hire more devs and less artists. Thanks.


*edit* Really? You've edited out the picture "due to spam abuse"? You really should look at it less like "spam" and more like "feedback". You have FORTY PLUS pages of responses on this after less than two days, and a gross majority of it is disgruntled players. Here is the image again

Edited by NuclearPanda, 16 December 2013 - 05:41 AM.

[Drakaisyl]

Well question is how would certain Clan Mechs fit into the MW:O System,like for example the announced Nova.With its 12 ER Medium Lasers in the Primary Config it would just blow up by the Heat System we have in the game right now.Other point would be,how are ClanMechs done in the light of the movementspeed.Taking the announced Nova once again,its stats are: 50 Tons and a Ground Speed of 86.4 km/h.Added the Speedtweak it would be 95.04 km/h ingame.

[Vermaxx]

Let's talk about a major issue if you're worried about balance...lack of engine critical hits.

Clan XL engines ALONE instantly eliminate any risk of running an XL engine in your game engine. Every pilot will get them, and every mech will need to be cored out to die.

Really, you could skip all the Clan weapons and only give us engines, ferro, endo steel, and double heatsinks, and the power creep will be so profound without even TOUCHING your fears of balancing the weapons.