1978 replies to this topic

[Reefwalker]

1st Yeaaa! Clan Tech!

2nd Have you heard of Meta, the game is already an arms race.

3rd Please let jump jets be an option for all clan mechs. A few as omni pods for any omnimech,(i.e. snap on the right leg's get 2 to4 jj's) and a LOT for the right base configuration.(jj's up to max may be placed anywhere on mech) My idea of hell, is having to basic out slow, standard, zombies.

4th Wile we are on base configuration, I can see engine type being fixed, rating needs be variable. Also armor Type may be fixed or have different options, but it to needs to be variable in amount and location.

Finally Thank you, for this look in on what you have planed for us.

[Maverick3]

first off thanks for the serious and long comment right after my posting. Thanks that was exactly what I was hoping for.
My idea about Balancing is that IF you play Clan you will play Clan only and fight with 8 mechs. IF you play IS you will play with IS tech and have 12 Mechs.
It's true that 12 Dire wolfs would mop up 12 Atlas no problem. But 8 Dire wolfs? that might be alot more interesting.
With the Clans fighting amongst each other a 10 vs 10 Clan match could be programmed into the Matchmaker. Since it would be all Clan tech no balancing would be needed and it would even be Canon since the Clans fought each other for the right to attack the Inner Sphere. You could have an open Beta test of balancing without having to revoke your gold status. like 6 Months of fighting amongst the Clans before they engage the inner sphere scum.

I just hope that the Devs actually read through this an think about incorporating all the good ideas thrown out by all the players here.

Community Warefare is what we need now the most of all. As alot of my fellow mechwarriors said. Community warfare first Clans second.

Higher costs for Clan mechs will slow down the arms race but won't prevent it. The slower the transformation from IS to Clan tech the better.

[Jaraii]

These sound great. I was a little worried about the value of pre-Ordering the mechs. However, after reading up on how the omnimech system will roughly work I am very excited and can't wait to play with them.

[PurplePaladin]

I have an odd idea: Instead of going to untold trouble trying to balance more powerful mechs/weapons so they are not really more powerful, don't.

Let them be more powerful; most every aspect of these new mechs up to 50% more powerful, and only allow them two Lances. Period.

Edited by PurplePaladin, 10 February 2014 - 12:03 AM.

[wanderer]

It's been brought up a lot- rather than dilute the actual feel of a Clan 'Mech, simply give them the appropriate numerical disadvantage in a Clan vs. IS match.

Clan vs Clan = 10vs10
IS vs IS = 12vs12
Clan vs IS = 10vs12 (or even 10v16) or 5vs8.

Test Clanners at full power vs veteran players and with vets at the controls. Trying to "balance" them internally in advance is silly, getting the designs out on a test server to let people show you the good, bad, and ugly is sensible.

Edited by wanderer, 10 February 2014 - 06:49 AM.

[SweetJackal]

I really don't believe that Clan Tech should be severely nerfed or limited just to have it match IS Tech in terms of it's numbers, like relative damage or heat. I do believe that there is an easier method of balancing these weapons by making them a different grade.

That is, setup Clan Tech to have a higher potential at the cost of being much more difficult to use properly. Make IS Tech the "Simple to Use and Effective" design and turn Clan Tech into "Harder to use correctly, better when used correctly."

Some sample ideas:

For Laser Weapons have a damage ramp up for Clan Lasers the longer that those weapons are held on a single component. Set the Laser weapons to deal less damage per tick than their IS counterparts but each tick applies a Clan Laser Damage Bonus to that section hit, with a maximum bonus. Scale this bonus with the idea a Clan Mech would carry more than one Laser Weapon (or set a Max Bonus Gain pet tick.) This way Clan Lasers end up rewarding players that can draw their fire to keep on target even as their target Torso Twists, holding two ER Large Clan Lasers on the target's Right Arm for the entire duration would deal more damage than targeting the CT and having the enemy Torso Twist to drag that damage across the Right Torso and Right Arm as well will deal less total damage, that damage bonus being spread out along the sections of the mech. This would also have Clan Lasers deal less damage when they rake them across to try to hit a light mech.

This sets Clan Lasers to be better at what they are good at and far weaker than what they are bad at. Making use of this potential damage bonus would require to aim in a manner to expect or flow with the Torso Twist, or to grind down the outer edges of the mech with that higher damage.

Clan ER PPCs are a more simple matter. 7 Damage Pinpoint, 4 damage to adjacent sections. More damage total, less damage pinpoint.

Clan LBX can have more pellets for the same total damage. More Crit Seeking, more chances to lose potential damage.

Clan UACs are a harder thing for this design. This is because the current UACs in the game aren't mechanically UACs, they are Rotary ACs. Changing the UAC design to fire two shells at once with that jam chance and applying a spread to those shells to make it far harder to land both hits on the same location increases potential damage but also increases average TTK and promotes close range combat. Clan UACs could then be balanced around more shells with less damage per shell.

Right now, UACs give a flat RoF increase at a risk of jamming, the way it's implemented reflects much better with RACs than UACs.

Clan LRMs could work like Pursuit Missiles from the Armored Core series. That is, a very large missile spread when initially launched with a very small missile spread (higher density) the further out the missiles fly. This means that Clan LRMS would have the same or tighter spread out around maximum range but a larger spread (more missiles missing the target) at closer ranges. This means that the Clan LRMs are much more specialized than IS LRMs and the tonnage saved on Clan LRMS would be required to be spent on weapons or more ammo to retain effectiveness at mid range.

Designs like these trade off the lower tonnage and crit requirements of Clan Tech with a higher degree of effort to use Clan Weapons effectively. Doing as such allows for the Clan Tech Tradeoff to be done in two stages, Clan Weapons that trade off User Friendliness with Tonnage And Space and Omnimechs with trade a more limited base customization for Hardpoint Customization.

If those two are handled independently then Mixed Tech can be put back on the table and we could avoid needing to weigh Clan Tech down with Ghost Heat.

Cause Ghost Heat is something that -needs- to go. Making it more ingrained into the game is not the way to go.

[Stain Pain]

Well unfortunately this game is doomed already. I came to the party late and missed many things but from what I see the game itself is way to stationary almost nothing new since last year, the community is wildly disappointed (unfortunately for all the good reasons), many people quit the game and the future designs are problematic and already disapproved by the people that are actually addressed to. This seems like a sinking boat that I don't wanna get on. This game is way to overpriced and PGI is the most abusive gaming publisher when it comes to money and one of the laziest when it comes to details and design. Seems ill have to wait 5-6 more years for a decent mechwarrior game. (Although a new decent game with mechs is just around the corner, wont say which but I think everyone knows its gonna take half of MWOplayer-base away specially with these problems this game is going through.)

[Colonel Fubar]

StandingCow, on 14 December 2013 - 02:07 PM, said:

Seems to me like he totally missed the point of why people are angry. We don't care that the clans are here... we care about the grab deal so close to the last pack of mechs when basic things that have been promised as "right around the corner" multiple times STILL aren't out.

How about you wait to introduce this until UI 2.0 comes out and is good? Or how about until you have all your CW {Scrap} working and ready to go or all the details panned out?

You fix the stuff from this image, and I will MAYBE start to trust you all again:


You guys continue to make me ashamed of my Legendary and overlord tags... honestly you do.

Exactly, this is why I ignored my original invitation for MWO Beta testing despite participating in three previous MW Beta projects. I suspected a (Steiner) plot of ditty bopping Fluff & Fodder proportions. Opting instead a wait and see attitude about what exactly would be delivered in a proposed environment that started right off putting the cart before the horse; such as No Mech Lab/Mech Choice before the Map Drop. (Only designers from MOO III would have thought of that.) Just one of the many Flashing Neon Signs that the designers were Tourists and not Mech Warriors. My advice then is the same now. Correctly clean up what you have. Make an environment that resembles a bit more like MW3. Some of us think real emergence requires building and terrain destruction, attacking and defending armored vehicles, Laser and AC turret's, ground troops running for their lives (SPLAT). (Yes I know they are claiming to be designing "a turret", I wont be holding my breath in anticipation) Because what is the kind of Crap that actually gets delivered...Pissing all over our Battlemech windshields creating eye strain and destroying pretty damn good graphic visuals. Because that is one of those tourists idea of expedient immersion. (Make it an option in regular game play and automatic in tournament competition) instead of pushing players from this simulation. They say there is no soundtrack to MWO, but there is...no not the into jingles. But the constant DA Da Da, Da Da DA, by the group trio...that rolls through my head every time the weekly mystery tweek arrives from PGI that embraces the ridicules and ignores the obvious. Such as "Ready Button" or "Golden Clan Mechs" Really PGI Golden Clan Mechs??? Again, those tourists know nothing about Clan Mech Warriors or their ideology. Never delivering what was promised, instead making new promises that the community should blindly trust and pay up front for. Omni Tech...just more "Look see pigeon" until the real issues are finally addressed.
Slow down PGI, before breaking anymore new ground...Put the horse in front of the cart where it belongs and get what you already have to run smoothly. Apply proper Immersion details that all Mech Warriors love, not one's that scrap their $500.00 video cards and push potential investors away.
With a strong environmental foundation recruiting and keeping Mechwarriors in large numbers will be no problem and expansion into uncharted space such as CW will make a more comfortable and successful transition.

PS I don't hate PGI I greatly admire and applaud them for many of their efforts. Especially for taking on the MECHWARRIOR Simulation into 21st century when so many others have only dry gulched this community.
I just wish they could focus on its foundation and get out of the ditty bopping mode that seems to preoccupy their time and energy in directions that just don't make any sense. Sorry, its Tuff Love, but LOVE none the less.

Edited by Danny Fubar Col 21C RHG, 12 February 2014 - 12:50 PM.

[Devillin]

Instead of nerfing the tech and screwing with the units to make things "balanced", stick with the lore and put things in the background that don't mess with the way people expect this game to be. If 10 vs 12 isn't already enough balance for you, add in background weight limits like 800 tons vs. 1000 tons. Between the number and weight disparities, things will even themselves out naturally. Just like they did for the board game. Clans versus Inner Sphere has always been about Quality versus Quantity. Some things don't need to be "fixed" just because you want to be different.

Edited by Devillin, 12 February 2014 - 10:58 PM.

[Butane9000]

Here's my renewed take on Clan weapons.

I previously posted in this thread that I feel Clan mechs should sacrifice range for their power and tonnage differences in regards to weapons. However I've learned of the actual weapons differences. Mainly in that Clans don't use basic lasers anymore. All of them are ER lasers or Pulse lasers. As well as all Clan auto cannons are either LBX or Ultra versions.

So my feedback is make the Clan ER Large Laser the same range as the IS ER Large Laser. Just make it lighter, less critical slots and maybe slightly more powerful but generates more heat.

That applies to every class of laser. For the Clan ER Medium and Small lasers give then roughly 15-30% of a range boost over the basic IS versions and adjust the heat a bit.

As for the auto-cannons either they will have to deal with the jamming on their ultra auto cannons or go with the shotgun LBX versions. So IS may have an advantage in regards to the auto-cannons due to the lack of jamming on the regular versions.

Missiles are the crux of the issue. Streak SRMs and LRMs for the clans are indeed issues. Especially with no minimum range on LRMs. The rumor is we'll see a 75-90 meter minimum range on Clan LRMs. As far as streaks go Paul or Bryan said they were considering making them stream fire instead of fire all at once.

[wanderer]

Quote

Missiles are the crux of the issue. Streak SRMs and LRMs for the clans are indeed issues. Especially with no minimum range on LRMs. The rumor is we'll see a 75-90 meter minimum range on Clan LRMs. As far as streaks go Paul or Bryan said they were considering making them stream fire instead of fire all at once.

It's worth noting that Streak LRMs don't show up till 3057, much later.

Further, they lose indirect fire capacity. They also weigh in at the same tonnage as a normal IS LRM launcher of the same missile size- so a Clan Streak LRM 20 is 10 tons, while their normal ones are 5.

Not only that, they're "experimental" level tech for quite some time after, and much like IS experimental tech,that means we won't be seeing it till it's production (or possibly prototype) level technology, even LONGER away. So few worries there.

Staggering Streak launches as 2-2-2 gives AMS more of a chance to chew up the salvo,and that's a good tactic for helping balance them out.

[Joseph Mallan]

Niko Snow, on 14 December 2013 - 01:38 PM, said:

This is the designated thread for feedback on http://mwomercs.com/...gn-perspective/

Spoiler

Please let us know your thoughts!

The idea to change LRM mass would mess up every Clan design carrying them, Just don't.

Laser idea could work.

I want my Enemy to be what they have been for 30 year Paul.

[Butane9000]

wanderer, on 14 February 2014 - 11:07 AM, said:

It's worth noting that Streak LRMs don't show up till 3057, much later.

Further, they lose indirect fire capacity. They also weigh in at the same tonnage as a normal IS LRM launcher of the same missile size- so a Clan Streak LRM 20 is 10 tons, while their normal ones are 5.

Not only that, they're "experimental" level tech for quite some time after, and much like IS experimental tech,that means we won't be seeing it till it's production (or possibly prototype) level technology, even LONGER away. So few worries there.

Staggering Streak launches as 2-2-2 gives AMS more of a chance to chew up the salvo,and that's a good tactic for helping balance them out.

You misunderstood me. I didn't mean Streak SRMs and Streak LRMs. I meant just SSRMs and LRMs by themselves. I was referring to regular Clan LRMs that will release with the Clans in June.

[wanderer]

Standard Clan LRMs firing inside 210m would be simple. You don't deadzone them, you simply give them a tracking mode that works differently.

That is, a Clan LRM launcher fires it's tubes in an unguided, straight-shot and LRM velocity mode inside 210m, then tracking activates. They'll still hit for damage, but they won't meta-Streak the target until they reach- effectively making them a slower,weaker SRM launcher at short range. Voila, Clan LRMs can fire effectively in 0-210, but aren't seekers.

[Uncle Totty]

wanderer, on 17 February 2014 - 10:48 AM, said:

Standard Clan LRMs firing inside 210m would be simple. You don't deadzone them, you simply give them a tracking mode that works differently.

That is, a Clan LRM launcher fires it's tubes in an unguided, straight-shot and LRM velocity mode inside 210m, then tracking activates. They'll still hit for damage, but they won't meta-Streak the target until they reach- effectively making them a slower,weaker SRM launcher at short range. Voila, Clan LRMs can fire effectively in 0-210, but aren't seekers.

Why would Clan LRMs have a 210m min range?

[wanderer]

Nathan K, on 17 February 2014 - 11:48 AM, said:

Why would Clan LRMs have a 210m min range?

Because Paul I wants to castrate them by giving them one.

[anonymous161]

Honestly it's because of these hilarious decisions to charge 240 bucks for clan mechs and then to change them from previous games for the *sake of balance in their view* why I cant get myself to play anymore. Hell I tried to get myself to like hawken but that game gets rather boring not enough variety of maps or mechs in that game either.....titanfall though is something new and fun so I been playing that instead and halo reach.

I dont see the point in this game. I've played it since beta was released for everyone nothing has changed that has been allt hat significant it still feels the same.

I dont trust igp or pgi for anything gaming.

I rather wait for a next gen mechwarrior game. Wont happen but rather wait for that than play this. No destructive environments that previous mechwarrior games had, and just lacking of story and any reason to really play no objective, which is what cw was for but we wont get that either. Game is at a dead end.

[wanderer]

Darth Bane001, on 17 February 2014 - 05:40 PM, said:

I rather wait for a next gen mechwarrior game. Wont happen but rather wait for that than play this. No destructive environments that previous mechwarrior games had, and just lacking of story and any reason to really play no objective, which is what cw was for but we wont get that either. Game is at a dead end.

Since PGI/IGP has the license for years, there won't be another Mechwarrior game but theirs for years and years.

Great end for the franchise.

[Uncle Totty]

wanderer, on 17 February 2014 - 08:16 PM, said:

Since PGI/IGP has the license for years, there won't be another Mechwarrior game but theirs for years and years.

Great end for the franchise.

My soul died just a little bit more.

[BLOOD WOLF]

wanderer, on 17 February 2014 - 08:16 PM, said:

Since PGI/IGP has the license for years, there won't be another Mechwarrior game but theirs for years and years.

Great end for the franchise.

kinda weird because the franchise was dead, i didn't see you coming along and reviving it. Why should anybody else get the license, nobody gave a rats ass about MWO execpt for the fans. We are lucky some of the people who work on PGI are also long time fans; However, if another company wants to come and help then that would be cool, they could make it a joint project

Edited by BLOOD WOLF, 17 February 2014 - 08:44 PM.