20 replies to this topic

[Praslek2]

Give me a moment to clear the irritation of the super-restrictive forums designed to minimize real discussion....

...

Okay.

The Clan package seems like relatively... normal... behaviour for PGI.

What I mean is that it's not particularly far out of the usual mode of operations they've been using to convert a "free"-to-pay (sic) game into a source of revenue. Skim a first-year economics textbook and you'll start to see how the decisions being made about pricing and timing of sales and product releases are all designed to get the most money out of players. Actually, at this point every time I see a "good" sale (eg. discount on MC) it makes me think that whatever is discounted is about to become a lot less valuable in the near future (personally, seeing this is hardening me against any future spending on this title).



A google search for MWO Clans also comes up with a couple of articles that have varying opinions.

One of the views I came across made a lot of sense: the continual and increasingly frequent attempts to sell more future products while past promises remain unkept and major complaints remain unaddressed might be a sign that there are very serious financial problems at PGI right now.

Here's the reddit post:
http://4x.reddit.com...mech_cash_grab/

And the guy's youtube video:


[Edit: Just to be clear, I am not the irate fan who made the video. I just have too much time on my hands this morning, so I'm noodling on the situation a little as a time waster.]

It kind of makes sense: there are some pretty important things missing from MWO. Things that the whole game was supposed to be "about". The kind of things that you would probably start working on right away, if you were making such a product. Why would you choose not to make the features of the product that you promised your customers? Financial pressure would do it.


[As a side note, exploiting the inelastic demand of the customers this much is going to cut off funding from the same customers down the road, and the market for this product is not infinite: it's not as simple a game with as much mass appeal as some of the brainless shooters marketed to the neverending stream of gullible youngsters. No game lasts forever, so perhaps the amount of money gained from burning people this way will be enough to last the lifetime of the game. We'll see. It sure would be nice to see a game company plan for something a little more longterm than just smash-and-grab profits from a temporary monopoly. You know, like, making a quality product and pricing it honestly/fairly?]

Edited by Praslek2, 16 December 2013 - 07:23 AM.

[Kanatta Jing]

Up to this point there has been an effective cap on what a lot of customers would spend.

By a "lot of customers" I mean customers with forums badges who have never purchased and would never purchase MC.

Even customers who both purchase packages and MC experience a finite amount that they can spend. There only being so many Hero Mechs and premium time insisting on ticking away in real time.

This was terrible. It isn't PGI's job to tell you how much you can spend on them. It is your job. Maybe the wife. But mostly yours.

As to the other question... Does MWO deserve more money in it's current state?

Well that isn't for you to say. At all.

Does it deserve more of your money? Oh, well that is your say.

The PGI guys are saying they hope that Q1 is going to be a big quarter for features. And the sale is going to be up for most of the comming year.

Tell you what. In June, June 1st infact, if you're still hanging around, tell me if it is worth it.

I don't know what your answer will be then.

PGI has been chewing on some extra frustrating delay gum for the past year. They think they might be done with it. In truth they might not be.

[MisterPlanetarian]

Kanatta sums it up well. No need to fly into a rage over this whole thing, Vote with your wallet and wait untill you have atleast UI 2.0 and DX11 with CW Launch module on the timetable, even if you really want these mechs.

[Rhaythe]

Praslek2, on 16 December 2013 - 04:55 AM, said:

One of the views I came across made a lot of sense: the continual and increasingly frequent attempts to sell more future products while past promises remain unkept and major complaints remain unaddressed might be a sign that there are very serious financial problems at PGI right now.

Hard to say, as neither PGI nor IGP seem to be publicly-traded companies. Nor do any seem to post reported earnings anywhere that is easily googleable. So instead, you have to look at other signs. According to Russ, PGI currently has employed no fewer than 44 people on their staff for the past year and a half:
https://twitter.com/...342549291257856

For a small company, that isn't bad. I haven't seen any signs on game reporting media detailing massive lay-offs or firings. Mechwarrior Tactics (another IGP game) seems to be alive and kicking. And by offering these mechs for claim at least six months from now, that suggests PGI expects to be alive for at least that long.

No, I don't buy that they can offer these mechs and not deliver. A company making promises like that and not delivering typically results in legal action.

In my honest opinion, this is a poorly-timed cash-grab that would have been BETTER served AFTER releasing UI2.0 and a new game mode or two.

[DI3T3R]

Rhaythe, on 16 December 2013 - 05:43 AM, said:

No, I don't buy that they can offer these mechs and not deliver. A company making promises like that and not delivering typically results in legal action.

Legal action???

Did you and them sign any mutual agreement that entitles you to the features they promised?

You are allowed to use the software as is for free and you are allowed to purchase bonus-content. That's it.

[Rhaythe]

DI3T3R, on 16 December 2013 - 05:56 AM, said:

Legal action???

Did you and them sign any mutual agreement that entitles you to the features they promised?

You are allowed to use the software as is for free and you are allowed to purchase bonus-content. That's it.

So you think someone can take your money through a digitally-recording transaction processed through several intermediaries - including your own bank - and not be liable to deliver a product?

In unrelated news, I have this gold lamp here that will grant you any 3 wishes. Just rub your sleeve against it and watch it work! I'll sell it to you right now for cheap!

[DI3T3R]

Rhaythe, on 16 December 2013 - 06:06 AM, said:

So you think someone can take your money through a digitally-recording transaction processed through several intermediaries - including your own bank - and not be liable to deliver a product?

The product has already been delivered: YOU ARE PLAYING IT. You did not purchase rights to content that doesn't exist yet.

[Jonny Taco]

q: "is igp going bankrupt?"

a: Hopefully, the sooner the better.

[DI3T3R]

lartfor, on 16 December 2013 - 07:02 AM, said:

q: "is igp going bankrupt?"

a: Hopefully, the sooner the better.

Come on, their management-style sucks, but the game so far is pretty good.

[Rhaythe]

DI3T3R, on 16 December 2013 - 06:56 AM, said:

The product has already been delivered: YOU ARE PLAYING IT. You did not purchase rights to content that doesn't exist yet.

You and I do not seem to be talking about the same thing.

[DI3T3R]

Rhaythe, on 16 December 2013 - 07:51 AM, said:

You and I do not seem to be talking about the same thing.

Okay, simple question as you insist this to be a legal situation:

Which evidence would you present in court that PGI owes you a game that includes UI 2.0, CW and whatnot?
Which evidence would you present in court to support your case, that you would incur monetary damages if PGI were to not deliver a new product with said features?

Edited by DI3T3R, 16 December 2013 - 08:10 AM.

[Praslek2]

The timing tells us they're trying to cash in on the Christmas rush.

The fact that there are no images of in-game models tells us that it's very likely work on the models hasn't begun yet, or it is so freshly started that nothing is presentable yet.

There are some interesting comments by Spiral... I forget the rest of his forum name.. in one of the other threads.
The point he makes is that it's actually very expensive to hire programmers, and that the art team and the development team (his words, I'm sticking with them) are two separate entities. It's a good explanation of why we see so many new mechs and even a few maps (even though we don't have to pay for maps), but there's not a lot of highly visible progress on the metagame and other features that many players want so badly. It's easy to picture a scenario where the tools for the art team are all working fine, and they can churn out content, but the development team is understaffed and keeps getting hung up on bug fixes (in addition to trying to deliver a whole bunch of the anticipated features in one big lump).

Maybe they just couldn't hire enough programmers when they started out, or they decided to go artist-heavy, so to speak? Personally, I think a lot of the artwork is really excellent, so it makes sense to me that getting a lot of it out would need more of the company's resources.

Some of the other things like the timing of this Clan package could be explained by marketing and business decisions, which, while they might be ridiculous to some of us, are just attempting to maximize total revenue. Maybe their marketing person is from EA? It might be the case that they're trying to get as much money as they can before other competition forces them to lower prices (that Heavy Gear arena game that was announced?).

[kesmai]

If the legal relation is the main viewpoint of pgi this game will go down the drain.

DI3T3R, on 16 December 2013 - 08:08 AM, said:

Okay, simple question as you insist this to be a legal situation:

Which evidence would you present in court that PGI owes you a game that includes UI 2.0, CW and whatnot?
Which evidence would you present in court to support your case, that you would incur monetary damages if PGI were to not deliver a new product with said features?

customer relation is about keeping promises. satisfied customers do pay for mechpacks. unsatisfied ones quit playing and leave no money.

Edited by kesmai, 16 December 2013 - 08:31 AM.

[Chip Danger]

MisterPlanetarian, on 16 December 2013 - 05:41 AM, said:

Kanatta sums it up well. No need to fly into a rage over this whole thing, Vote with your wallet and wait untill you have atleast UI 2.0 and DX11 with CW Launch module on the timetable, even if you really want these mechs.

Tell them what. Once they have the game to a playable state I'll vote with my money. I have no issue droping the $4000 plus into a game. Just ask my Planetside 2 account ouch. But right now all they have is death match. Not even a team death match as the 12 man Que has not launched in about 3 weeks.

[Jalik]

Praslek2, on 16 December 2013 - 04:55 AM, said:

they've been using to convert a "free"-to-pay (sic) game into a source of revenue.

sorry, but what the h*** are you talking about? OF COURSE they earn money. From the players. What do you think "free to play" really means? It means there is no monthly fee and the revenue is collected via alternative sources (= ingame items). It means you don't have to pay ANYTHING if you want to. If you like, you can spend alot and this will help run the game and company.

I don't see why PGI should go bankrupt. Pure speculation based on their normal operations. All F2P games work like this.

[TychoTheItinerant]

They're already intellectually and creatively bankrupt, and I'm inclined to agree with Mack and say they're probably on the verge of being financially bankrupt. The Clan grabdeal could be viewed as just "more of the same" from a dev/publisher who has demonstrated zero ability to do any better than that, but the golden Mech thing absolutely reeks of "We're so desperate for money that we're not even going to pretend that this isn't basically us asking for charity. GIEF MONIES PLOX,"

Edited by TychoTheItinerant, 16 December 2013 - 08:49 AM.

[Heffay]

TIme will tell, eh?

I just see them following in the footsteps of other games, like WoT ($600 tank), Star Citizen ($5000 packages), Path of Exile (5 digit items), and Saints Row IV ($1M package).

It's a great time to have disposable income. Helps separate the monocles from the poors.

[TychoTheItinerant]

Heffay, on 16 December 2013 - 08:53 AM, said:

It's a great time to have disposable income. Helps separate the monocles from the poors.

The fact that you said that unironically makes me seriously question your mental stability.

[Heffay]

TychoTheItinerant, on 16 December 2013 - 08:56 AM, said:

The fact that you said that unironically makes me seriously question your mental stability.

You'll get it someday.

Or not. Journalism isn't exactly a job that can pay the bills these days, eh? Don't worry; when MWO implements the ability to gift packages with UI 2.0, I'll send over a nice Clan starter pack for you, so you can have your very own forum icon!

[DI3T3R]

TychoTheItinerant, on 16 December 2013 - 08:56 AM, said:

The fact that you said that unironically makes me seriously question your mental stability.

http://lmaodude.com/...064788665_n.jpg

Edited by DI3T3R, 16 December 2013 - 09:04 AM.