65 replies to this topic

[Bobdolemite]

IMO Ghost heat needs to be replaced with a less complex / more intuitive system, a ground up rework of how heat is generated / dissipates .

You can argue one way or another about how GH has affected the meta, but you cannot deny that it is a clunky. overly complicated, nonsensical way to address the problem of heat in the game.

I propose as step one of moving in the right direction, work on removing ghost heat and redesign the heat system in the game. Many people have stated before that overheating should be a SERIOUS mistake for any competent pilot. Lets put our money where our fingers are and get back to some semblance of normal with sensible heat scale changes and overheating penalties.

And for the love of god stop balancing for 6 ppc boats (or insert other massive boated weapon) if you REALLY dont want people using that many (insert weapon here) then you can enforce maximum limits for some weapons. This at least would make FAR more sense then trying to allow heavily boated weapons while making their heat generation so high that they are practically useless (they were practically worthless before GH even moreso now)

Its like trying to get people to stop smoking by charging $15 a pack, the only thing that happens is people go broke buying more cigs! If you dont think something should be done in game, make it so that it CANT be done, avoid all the unnecessary complication.

*My fixes for heat are just simple suggestions, others may have better ideas. The takeaway from this is that Ghost Heat is bad and we need a rethink of the way heat is handled in the game*

Edited by Bobdolemite, 16 December 2013 - 08:05 PM.

[FupDup]

For starters, our heat dissipation is waaaay too low and our capacity is too high--which is exactly what fuels and enables large alpha-striking in the first place. Cut the capacity down to somewhere around ~30, and increase dissipation by roughly double, and suddenly brawler/sustained-damage builds will be a lot more effective against hill humpers (but the humpers will still be useful, which isn't necessarily a bad thing as long as they have competitors).

[Monky]

FupDup, on 16 December 2013 - 04:25 PM, said:

For starters, our heat dissipation is waaaay too low and our capacity is too high--which is exactly what fuels and enables large alpha-striking in the first place. Cut the capacity down to somewhere around ~30, and increase dissipation by roughly double, and suddenly brawler/sustained-damage builds will be a lot more effective against hill humpers (but the humpers will still be useful, which isn't necessarily a bad thing as long as they have competitors).

this has been the needed change since closed beta.

[Justy Starflare]

There is a simple solution to boat in large numbers of the same weapons. Like for example changing
a med. laser for a ppc uses up two med laser hard points in the same location so if you have let's say
two medlasers in a location you can put in a single
Ppc but if you only had 1 med laser your Sol. This would only work up and not down you wouldn't be able
to turn 1 ppc hard point into two med laser hard points.

[Roadbeer]

So, you're angry about column A and to make it better, you want a change in column B

[Grey Black]

FupDup, on 16 December 2013 - 04:25 PM, said:

For starters, our heat dissipation is waaaay too low and our capacity is too high--which is exactly what fuels and enables large alpha-striking in the first place. Cut the capacity down to somewhere around ~30, and increase dissipation by roughly double, and suddenly brawler/sustained-damage builds will be a lot more effective against hill humpers (but the humpers will still be useful, which isn't necessarily a bad thing as long as they have competitors).

Or change shut-down mechanic. At 50% heat, manual override within 5 seconds, 70% heat manual override within 2 seconds, 100% shut down override within .5 seconds, over that you deal damage to your mech. Set heat capacity to ~45 and we'd be fine.

EDIT:
But that just adds an overly complicated mechanic, so IGNORE ME! Just thinking of the old Mechwarrior 2 days. Remember then? When heat and such made sense?

Edited by Grey Black, 16 December 2013 - 04:33 PM.

[Bobdolemite]

Roadbeer, on 16 December 2013 - 04:31 PM, said:

So, you're angry about column A and to make it better, you want a change in column B

Well in this case I can try to ignore Column A if B was addressed =)

In all seriousness though, heat scale changes, ECM closer to TT ECM (not mixed with 3 other modules, and SRM/LRM fixes are what this game really needs. If these things were addressed I would be playing more than I am now, and the game would be less confusing / frustrating especially for new players.

[Roadbeer]

Bobdolemite, on 16 December 2013 - 04:37 PM, said:

Well in this case I can try to ignore Column A if B was addressed =)

Do, or Do Not, there is not try

[3endless8oogie]

Grey Black, on 16 December 2013 - 04:32 PM, said:

Or change shut-down mechanic. At 50% heat, manual override within 5 seconds, 70% heat manual override within 2 seconds, 100% shut down override within .5 seconds, over that you deal damage to your mech. Set heat capacity to ~45 and we'd be fine.

EDIT:
But that just adds an overly complicated mechanic, so IGNORE ME! Just thinking of the old Mechwarrior 2 days. Remember then? When heat and such made sense?

So we would need a macro that types "o" all the time? .... excellent idea

[Khobai]

ghost heat needs to be removed just on principle.

want to reduce pinpoint alpha? just make ppcs do splash damage and make autocannons fire in bursts. thats how MWLL handled it.

as for the heat system, i agree we need faster dissipation, but instead of lower capacity I would like to see graduated heat penalties.

[Varent]

I have to admit Ive never seen a problem with ghost heat. I think it needs to be altered a little bit. tweaked perhaps but ive noticed alot of changes ive liked in the game since its implementation.

[Huntsman]

Yes, remove ghost heat, allow me to deal 84 points of damage in 1 shot with the stock variant of the 50 ton Nova. I look forward to that...

Edited by Huntsman, 16 December 2013 - 04:56 PM.

[Bobdolemite]

Huntsman, on 16 December 2013 - 04:55 PM, said:

Yes, remove ghost heat, allow me to deal 84 points of damage in 1 shot with the stock variant of the 50 ton Nova. I look forward to that...

Theres a better answer than ghost heat for that =) many of which are on the forums in some post or another. Im not suggesting removing ghost heat and not tinkering with the system further. Im talking about a ground up redesign leaning toward a more simplistic / consistent / logical approach.

Remember Ghost Heat was meant to be a temporary solution that somehow grew into the monstrosity it is today. its time to rip off the bandaid and treat the wound =) building on this shaky foundation further is a bad idea.

All effort regarding balance should start here, from a consistent base. Then you can start to look at weapon effectiveness / balance.

Edited by Bobdolemite, 16 December 2013 - 05:06 PM.

[Sandpit]

Wow....

I didn't call this one. I SHOULD have seen it, but I didn't....

Lets use the clan pack fiasco to rehash old agendas so PGI can "prove" they care and listen to the community by giving in to bad ideas that have been suggested in the past and not implemented. Well played OP, well played.

[Huntsman]

Yea, I don't disagree that ghost heat is a hair-brained, Rube Goldburg-ian "solution."

[Blue Footed Booby]

Every time someone mention hex stalkers in a serious discussion about balance my eyes roll back in my head like a shark. It has never been a serious, effective build. Anyone who thinks otherwise is bad and should have no say whatsoever in matters of game design or balance. I have no idea what the fix is, but if the proposed solution is in any designed to counter hex stalkers or ppc boat jagers then something has gone wrong.

[Khobai]

again just make ppcs do splash damage. if they spread damage around even four PPCs can be balanced without ghost heat.

[Corvus Antaka]

remove ghost heat and watch the dual ac/20 quad PPC meta return in its full glory.

[FupDup]

Colonel Pada Vinson, on 16 December 2013 - 05:29 PM, said:

remove ghost heat and watch the dual ac/20 quad PPC meta return in its full glory.

Dual AC/20 mechs are still very popular to this day, and the Quad PPC meta now has the competitor of heat-efficient PPC + AC builds to contend with (due to the heat increase on PPCs to 10 per shot).

[MadCat02]

3-ER-PPC alpha is too much . Nobody gona use anything else if they remove ghost heat .

I think Ghost heat limit should be 3 for Er-Lasers and LR-lasers though