72 replies to this topic

[Tarl Cabot]

In the end, everyone will be able to use clan mechs w/clan equipment and IS mechs w/IS equipment in general pug environment. It will be up to the community, the individuals and units, to determine what they will use, the "flavor". That will one of the primary ways to prevent every Thomas, Debra and Halfear from joining the clans if that is the only way to pilot a clan mech.

Now, where it will become interesting will be the conditions of the merc matches, as well as any special events/tourneys/etc.

[Darth Futuza]

What? You don't think clan mechs can be stolen and then sold on the black market to the IS?

[nightsniper]

Ok so the suggestion if I am comprehending the thread as it weaves in and out of the issue is that because you bought the clan mechs you should be able to use them regardless of what faction you chose to affiliate with.

If this is correct then I must pose this question. What the heck is the point of CW if faction and mechs mean nothing?

Given, once the battles start and lines shift as battles are won and lost may eventually blur this point. In the start though these mechs are going to be available from June-October as pre-CW use. Will in order to maintain some Lore to this game then split off players to run Clan tech in the clans. How will balancing Clan tech to IS tech in 3051 be achieved where Clan tech was superior at reducing weight thus allowing for more equipment to be installed Higher armor values for one and the fact that the IS won by superior numbers and talented pilots ever be adjusted for. I mean really what the heck is the point of CW if those basic facts are not part of it. So you drop 12 madcats vs 12 madcats on Tukkayd to decide if the invasion is halted? Will Comstar release its cache of Star league era mechs to overwhelm the Clans at Tukkayd? Or will their be just another border to fight over for map domination? Will Clan tech be so eviscerated that the superior tech is negated.

Sorry I came here hoping to play a graphically enhanced version of the game I have played for decades. I have researched and been working on story lines for lesser known units for decades of playing the board game. I am working to get my friends back into MWO who walked away like me in early beta. If PGI and friends are throwing the book and the decades of lore out the window even to bring us some thing" New" then this is little more then the remake that Wizkids tried with the dark ages and will likely go the same route. They have to try and preserve something of the past even with modifying it to 2014 throwing it all up in the air for a financial business model to keep the cash flowing is selling it all out.

For the original base which I count myself in, I have no problem in walking again if the game offers me nothing that I am looking for. I hope PGI rethinks how they will introduce all of this and how the rules will be set before they run chasing Mechs for Dollars and turn this into some mid day TV game show.

Edited by nightsniper, 23 January 2014 - 07:07 AM.

[Tarl Cabot]

Eventually Faction will be important with CW. DCMS grouped with DCMS, FWLM grouped with FWLM, Wolf grouped with Wolf.

As for Clan mechs and IS mechs, it will likely not matter if you are a Snake or a Wolf if both are able to pilot a Madcat/Timberwolf. What would have made the difference would be if RR (Reload/repair) was still in effect.

The differences between Clan and IS mechs will be the level of customization. If Clan mechs can not change their armor/engine/a few more items, many will not have the crits avail due to fixed Ferro/Endo (7crits each). And that is just part of it. Until the Clan mechs are introduced we will not know exactly how all of that will play out.

With discussion of Elo/MM in a few other threads and UI2 introduction, weight class is supposed to also be utilized. It will be interesting if the use of a Clan mechs changes a player's Elo number, making it lower than if he used an IS mech of the same weight class.

Eventually though, for normal gameplay I do not foresee PGI limiting a player's use of Clan/IS mechs based on their faction. It will likely be voluntary, left at the hands of the player made units trying to add flavor to their own units.

Edited by Tarl Cabot, 23 January 2014 - 08:33 AM.

[Peiper]

One way to help settle your minds is change the language.

Instead of Clan and Inner Sphere mechs, let's call them Frankenmechs and Omnimechs.

Both are mechs, both have strengths and weaknesses in their design. You pick which ones you want to pilot and pilot them in the name of your chosen faction. It's what a mechwarrior DOES with a mech that makes him a good mechwarrior. The rest is PGI marketting.

[Lightfoot]

You can play for any faction and not lose your earned status with the other factions. That doesn't mean you can field Clan tech for an Inner Sphere faction, just means you can play as Clan if you want while retaining your status with Davion.

Eventually, in the lore, Davion especially and other IS Houses aquired Clan tech as salvage and occasional technology captures, but that is down the road a bit I think.

[Lightfoot]

Peiper, on 23 January 2014 - 08:46 AM, said:

One way to help settle your minds is change the language.

Instead of Clan and Inner Sphere mechs, let's call them Frankenmechs and Omnimechs.

Both are mechs, both have strengths and weaknesses in their design. You pick which ones you want to pilot and pilot them in the name of your chosen faction. It's what a mechwarrior DOES with a mech that makes him a good mechwarrior. The rest is PGI marketting.

I agree. In many ways Inner Sphere mechs are more Omni than Clan tech is described to be. To be honest I think PGI's Clan omnimech design proposal is actually a way to restrict loadouts of superior Clan weapons and little else. Not that I care, I am not a purest, although they could make the Gauss Rifle conform more to Battletech and support joystick use of the Gauss as well, which it doesn't ATM.

[Peiper]

Lightfoot, on 23 January 2014 - 09:00 AM, said:

... although they could make the Gauss Rifle conform more to Battletech and support joystick use of the Gauss as well, which it doesn't ATM.

Really? I don't know if I'll ever go back to joystick again, but for me, it was always part of the immersion into the game - a piece of REAL technology that you'd find in a cockpit right their in your lap/on your desk/armrest, whatever. However, they did have a 'bombast laser' in MW4. That was a Charge-Up weapon. So, it should be simple to do the same with MWO, no? Send a ticket into support and make a thread on it!

[Lightfoot]

Peiper, on 23 January 2014 - 09:45 AM, said:

Really? I don't know if I'll ever go back to joystick again, but for me, it was always part of the immersion into the game - a piece of REAL technology that you'd find in a cockpit right their in your lap/on your desk/armrest, whatever. However, they did have a 'bombast laser' in MW4. That was a Charge-Up weapon. So, it should be simple to do the same with MWO, no? Send a ticket into support and make a thread on it!

I asked many times in all the right and wrong places for them to adjust the Gauss desync to make it usable with a Joystick, but no response. I will always use a Joystick though. Could not stand the first two weeks of beta with no joystick support at all. I aim fine with it and I out-pilot the mouse users. I never get cored unless it's an Awesome. Timberwolf or Summoner with a joystick should be very agile, all that speed locked into a heavy.

[Mr Blonde]

Khajja nar Jatargk, on 18 December 2013 - 09:25 AM, said:

At this point in time, skirmishing along the periphery has been going on for at least a year. You've also got units like Wolf's Dragoons running around for YEARS with clan tech. And of course there are always those who manipulate situations for their own gain... I wouldnt think it'd be outside the realm of possibility for a handful of designs to have fallen into IS hands

It would be the same as going back to WWI and giving the US the designs and specs for and Abrams A3. You could even give them one as salvage. There's still no way they could reproduce the tech en masse. Clan tech is not reproducible by IS industries, at least not till the 3070 era or so when some Clans start merging with the IS and sharing technicians and specs for producing the advanced materials involved.

Lightfoot, on 23 January 2014 - 09:00 AM, said:

I agree. In many ways Inner Sphere mechs are more Omni than Clan tech is described to be. To be honest I think PGI's Clan omnimech design proposal is actually a way to restrict loadouts of superior Clan weapons and little else. Not that I care, I am not a purest, although they could make the Gauss Rifle conform more to Battletech and support joystick use of the Gauss as well, which it doesn't ATM.

Omnimechs are designed for campaign-style fighting, so parts can be quickly switched out. MWO doesn't take that into account, and probably won't even in the CW should that ever be implemented. They should, but they won't.

[nightsniper]

Ultimately PGI is the decider of the future after all they took the risk and invested the time and energy in building this game. Now sometimes they listen to the community and some times it seems they do not. I think the latter is because of the difficulties they have run into using the Cry3 engine. Just my opinion but I have seen several references from the Devs posts that would suggest the hurdle does exist.

Considering the economic model the game is having to develop around to remain viable we all have raised good points about the use of Clan tech and the wish for a solid CW for the base. The only hope is that PGI can see a way through to maintain the economics and deliver something that the engine will allow and then meet the expectations of the base.

Time will tell all. Still waiting is and not knowing is undermining the entire base as the speculation runs the full spectrum. This again brings me back to questions, Will the base hold through the into of Clan tech and how it is introduced into this basic game now and will CW coming in the fall arrive in time to save the base from wandering into another genre and can CW really bring it back?

Number of outside factors suggest that the clock is ticking down faster then a year ago and the promise of things to come is being met with greater speculation. Also players who are drifting are finding new games and new projects being more satisfying then in the past and other game developers are closer to a finish project or an improved project. One is the Roberts latest endeavor which may be playable about the time CW is to launch.

Will there be enough of the base left to make CW viable?

These are just some of the issues I see in MWO moving forward and remaining viable from a purely business perspective. I am certain the PGI is aware of all that is going on around them while thinking and working toward a future.

OK so I just dumped a big bucket of cold water on your head and your now shaking and maybe a little annoyed. The point is to provoke your conversation and thoughts and also to lay out the facts and allow all of us to have them and take some action that will benefit us and what we want. To that end it is up to all of us to help build the base even with an uncertain future it is up to us to keep the game fresh and interesting the same way many of us did in the past. Planetary play and ladder play did not always exist together in the genre it was created by the players. Maybe it is up to the houses to come together and start another such effort. The game is now playable the rules set can be established by the players and a system can be implemented that mirrors what we want using the game as a base. Waiting and speculating is not an option time is growing to short.

Anyway Think about it, we have a playable mech game do we want it to grow and continue and flourish?

[CyclonerM]

Lightfoot, on 23 January 2014 - 08:53 AM, said:

You can play for any faction and not lose your earned status with the other factions. That doesn't mean you can field Clan tech for an Inner Sphere faction, just means you can play as Clan if you want while retaining your status with Davion.

I know but this is crazy!Not only illogical (if you leave the FedSuns to join the Capellans you should be considered a traitor and you should not have a "honorary status" ), it may ruin the very foundation of CW. If you can easily switch factions without losing ranks and LPs, if you want a Catapult you can just switch to Liao, buy one at cheaper price and switch back to your old faction.

I think you should pick a faction and not be able to change it. At very least if you leave your faction and then come back to it you should start again from 0 LPs.

In my vision of CW if you are a Inner Sphere player you can join a Clan faction and "be taken as Bondsman" while reteining your rank in your old IS faction (this to encourage coming back to IS). Joining in this way a Clan faction means you will have of course to start from rank 0 "Bondsman" and rise trough the ranks. Of course , joining another Clan should make you lose your rank within the old Clan but, if we assume joining a different Clan faction means you are taken as bondsman in battle, you may come back in your old Clan with the rank of MechWarrior.

[nightsniper]

Take a look around you how many people do you see? I mean really how many came and went some returned and will they leave again? Are the Pub drops getting better or worse? Are the posts about glitches and rants directed at the system or the game play?

Then look back 9 months and then look forward 9 Months is CW going to be in time? If something real is not here to hold the majority of the players how many are going to come and go and will CW be fore real or just a shell. MW through the voids lived because of a base, people from past computer games and the board game to this latest attempt. More may come may not. At some point the genre will be played out. Dark Ages nearly ended the string once already.

Many of the F2P games are racing to get more community into the game look at WOT as just one example. Many who play here play their as well and if Clan wars was better formulated many would not be here period. Future games are already building CW before even going into Beta. Why is that?

Because the growing belief is CW builds the base and keeps the F2P model growing and viable. MWO needed and took hold of a model based on early F2P games and built on the bases response to the system of mech buying. They took a project that many never succeeded with and got it off the ground and built a playable game (glitches , nerfs, and tweaks aside). Until the programmers and engineers can complete CW something need to be done to hold the community together. It is already fractured as it is.

You may want to think about one other thing if a home grown CW and rule Set succeeds that may impact the current CW under development and work out the direction the players are most interested. Call it field testing if you like. Clans here IS there waring groups believing they have the best 2 stars of Clanner Omnimech Vs 3 lances of IS Mechs. Who wins Faction divide equipment divide. Tactics! Pilots! The core of the debate.

Blurring the lines as has been suggested by bring in clan mechs and tech with no rules well it just reduces the debate eliminates the tension of conflict. Who wants to see an arcade CW where 50% of the time you win and 50% of the time you lose and equipment and a wallet warrior is all it is about.
I suspect that few find that enticing to stick around you can find that almost anywhere in the F2P world. Are there enough WW out their to keep them all viable? Their are a lot that is for sure but even in the real world there are still winners and losers look back at the servers that have shut down and games collecting dust on an old hard drive.

Rules such as Battletech has developed have been playable for decades changes in them came over time as play evolved throwing away a working set of rules with out new ones in place is pointless.

I am still waiting to see what CW evolves into but I feel certain no matter how many words are written on this forum and the hundreds of others it will now be just up to the Programmers and the wallet warriors as to how it actually comes out if we do not show the viability of a given direction.

Think about it.