24 replies to this topic

[hashinshin]

Is the same as pay2win. ESPECIALLY when that content is Clan mechs which literally can not be found anywhere else on the regular mechs.

Phoenix package was like ehhh it's a one time thing and all the weapons are the same weapons.

But Clan? This is the second time paying customers get things way before free customers, and they get Clan mechs which are going to be decidedly different. If even one Clan Mech is superior to IS mechs (which will definitely happen) then the game is pay2win. But it's okay, you might say, you can eventually get them for cbills!... and then what, they release ANOTHER package you can only get for money?

It's too far down the road for me. Phoenix was pushing it, this is just silly now.

[Rhaythe]

hashinshin, on 17 December 2013 - 04:04 PM, said:

Is the same as pay2win. ESPECIALLY when that content is Clan mechs which literally can not be found anywhere else on the regular mechs.

No. First-access to new content is a very common practice in the free-to-play market, and even on console gaming. PGI is not the first to do this.

[FupDup]

The severely limited customization on Clan mechs should hopefully prevent any of them from being overpowered compared to their IS counterparts. In fact, I'm willing to bet quite a hefty batch of C-Bills that roughly half or more of them will be sub-par at best due to stock engines being too high or low, or from having dumbly distributed armor.

[Roadbeer]

hashinshin, on 17 December 2013 - 04:04 PM, said:

Is the same as pay2win.

Edited by Roadbeer, 17 December 2013 - 05:35 PM.

[Levi Porphyrogenitus]

Early access = convenience. Convenience is one of the two staples of free-to-play income. The other, of course, is vanity (Gold mechs, for instance).

[hashinshin]

Levi Porphyrogenitus, on 17 December 2013 - 05:34 PM, said:

Early access = convenience. Convenience is one of the two staples of free-to-play income. The other, of course, is vanity (Gold mechs, for instance).

That's so wrong it blows my mind. So if I made a F2P game where everything was numerical in power and 1 was free but 2 was on pre-order then it'd be fine? But 2 gets released for in game cuirrency and it's okay, but then 3 goes on pre-order and all the real money people have 3. Then 3 gets released and 4 goes on pre-order...

Staple of a free to play income? Based on LoL? No wait LoL doesn't do that... based on TF2? Oh wait, nope. Based on DotA2? Nope. HoN? No? Oh, you mean PoE. Except PoE doesn't do that either. How about you staple your *** cause you're talking out of it.

[Sandpit]

[Phoenix Branson]

hashinshin, on 17 December 2013 - 04:04 PM, said:

Is the same as pay2win. ESPECIALLY when that content is Clan mechs which literally can not be found anywhere else on the regular mechs.

Phoenix package was like ehhh it's a one time thing and all the weapons are the same weapons.

But Clan? This is the second time paying customers get things way before free customers, and they get Clan mechs which are going to be decidedly different. If even one Clan Mech is superior to IS mechs (which will definitely happen) then the game is pay2win. But it's okay, you might say, you can eventually get them for cbills!... and then what, they release ANOTHER package you can only get for money?

It's too far down the road for me. Phoenix was pushing it, this is just silly now.

Early access is nothing more than convenience. You don't understand how this business model works, that's their main source of income. At the end of the day, they need to make money (some people think making games is cheap).

[aniviron]

There's a lot riding on clan tech balance and release dates.

If Clan tech is balanced, having it released early to those willing to spend more is fine. If the first four clan mechs come out at once for cbill purchaase instead of one by one, having the next four be early access is fine.

If both of those are untrue, there are going to be big problems. Assume for example, that the Warhawk is wicked OP when it comes out, that there's really no other mech which can compete with it, as it has the best clan weapons, and it is a better mech than the other clan mechs. That's eight months where the only people who are allowed to have the best mech in the game are the ones who are rich enough to be able to plonk down $240 without worrying about it. In a PvE game, this would be worrying, but ultimately acceptable. In a PvP game where a significant amount of the fun rides on being able to win or at least feeling like you had a fair shot at winning, that's totally unacceptable.

So we'll see. It could be really bad, it could be okay.

[pbiggz]

hashinshin, on 17 December 2013 - 08:18 PM, said:

That's so wrong it blows my mind. So if I made a F2P game where everything was numerical in power and 1 was free but 2 was on pre-order then it'd be fine? But 2 gets released for in game cuirrency and it's okay, but then 3 goes on pre-order and all the real money people have 3. Then 3 gets released and 4 goes on pre-order...

Staple of a free to play income? Based on LoL? No wait LoL doesn't do that... based on TF2? Oh wait, nope. Based on DotA2? Nope. HoN? No? Oh, you mean PoE. Except PoE doesn't do that either. How about you staple your *** cause you're talking out of it.

A few things.

A: Convenience vs Grind IS one of the staples of F2P games. With the exception of the 30 % cbill bonus phoenix variants, the founders mechs, and the future prime clan variants (each will have or already has a regular cbill counterpart FYI) every single thing they have ever released thus far on preorder is or will soon be available for c-bill purchase. Denying this is denying objective fact. You can't argue against objective fact.

B: This game has actually been fantastic in avoiding P2W scenarios. There are plenty of games out there that have more content that is heavily monetized. All we have that is seriously monetized are hero mechs, champion mechs, and vanity items (skins and cockpit items), the rest is all available for c-bills, and anything that is available only for MC, you can live without.

C: The fact that you have resorted to insulting your opposition indicates that you are on the defensive and in fact acknowledge that you are wrong, but are to arrogant to admit it.

[Chemie]

Levi Porphyrogenitus, on 17 December 2013 - 05:34 PM, said:

Early access = convenience. Convenience is one of the two staples of free-to-play income. The other, of course, is vanity (Gold mechs, for instance).

when "early access" becomes 6-12 months (which is likely in this case after the "expansion pack is added). this is pay-2-win and not convenience. I have no problem with 2 weeks for new mechs....your arguments works there but phoenix was pushing it and clans will breach it.

Edited by Chemie, 18 December 2013 - 04:49 AM.

[Lyoto Machida]

Don't worry guys...PGI will have things balanced by the time the Clan pack rolls out in June.

Oh wait...CW isn't til after the Clans drop and SRM hit reg is going to be addressed after CW.

Nevermind...at least we're still in Beta.

[Reitrix]

http://www.eurogamer...ricing-revealed

[Lyoto Machida]

Reitrix, on 18 December 2013 - 04:47 AM, said:

http://www.eurogamer...ricing-revealed

Who cares what GT6 is doing (and I played the game on a chipped PS1 before it ever dropped in the US...love the series)???

At least Sony/Polyphony has a proven track record. How is PGI about changing goals/missing deadlines again?

[MustrumRidcully]

hashinshin, on 17 December 2013 - 04:04 PM, said:

Is the same as pay2win. ESPECIALLY when that content is Clan mechs which literally can not be found anywhere else on the regular mechs.

Phoenix package was like ehhh it's a one time thing and all the weapons are the same weapons.

But Clan? This is the second time paying customers get things way before free customers, and they get Clan mechs which are going to be decidedly different. If even one Clan Mech is superior to IS mechs (which will definitely happen) then the game is pay2win. But it's okay, you might say, you can eventually get them for cbills!... and then what, they release ANOTHER package you can only get for money?

It's too far down the road for me. Phoenix was pushing it, this is just silly now.

No, if you can get it for C-Bills eventually, it's not pay-to-win.
Caveat: If you can't keep it but are still forced to compete with people that have it, it can be pay-to-win.
(The old Repair & Rearm system strongly riksed being pay-to-win, because certain advantageous technology was superior but could only be affored by people with Premium Bonuses. Since there was no match-making that would keep the "superior tech" people out of the games with people that had "inferior" tech, it was bad. At that time, most "advanced" techs other than XL Engines were however not that costly to run, many things were costly to run that sucked, like FF, and tech like XL Engines had inherent drawbacks that made them not desirable on every type of mech, so it might have avoided the problem in practice)

[Reitrix]

Lyoto Machida, on 18 December 2013 - 04:51 AM, said:

Who cares what GT6 is doing (and I played the game on a chipped PS1 before it ever dropped in the US...love the series)???

At least Sony/Polyphony has a proven track record. How is PGI about changing goals/missing deadlines again?

Oh, i see now. Stupid huge 'microtransactions' in a fully priced console game is fine because its Sony. Which by the way, allow you to 'buy' power as cars are direct upgrades over previous cars. You wont see the very first car competing with a Lambo now would you.

The point is, why is it fine for Sony and Microsoft to do 'microtransactions' in fully priced games that have no other possible content outside of DLC that you can never get unless you spend real money, but not ok for PGI to offer early access to Clan 'Mechs for a bundle price in a F2P title, and then slowly release free versions of the same Mechs.

You can rage on as much as you like about how PGI missed this promise or that deadline. But in the end, you're still here. And so am i, because the core gameplay in MWO is quite fun. Future content such as CW is going to be just one more way for me to enjoy MWO. I don't even care when they do it, since i still enjoy my Conquest and Assault modes.

Also:
https://www.google.c...channel=suggest

Well now .. Look at that. a whole bunch of stuff promised but delayed from your infallible Sony.

Edited by Reitrix, 18 December 2013 - 05:44 AM.

[Rhaythe]

If you believe staggered content release and early access are Pay-To-Win, you do not know what Pay-To-Win means.

[Kekkone]

MustrumRidcully, on 18 December 2013 - 05:12 AM, said:

No, if you can get it for C-Bills eventually, it's not pay-to-win.

Care to put a time on "eventually"? Let's say 5 years. Pay-to-win or no?

I'm not saying it will take 5 years to get C-Bill clan mechs, but it's a fine line with these things. It's also a matter of personal opinion on some degree.

Anyway i don't directly agree with the OP. It all boils down how the clan tech will be implemented. My P2W torch remains unlit untill that time

[Sandpit]

Reitrix, on 18 December 2013 - 05:43 AM, said:

Oh, i see now. Stupid huge 'microtransactions' in a fully priced console game is fine because its Sony. Which by the way, allow you to 'buy' power as cars are direct upgrades over previous cars. You wont see the very first car competing with a Lambo now would you.

The point is, why is it fine for Sony and Microsoft to do 'microtransactions' in fully priced games that have no other possible content outside of DLC that you can never get unless you spend real money, but not ok for PGI to offer early access to Clan 'Mechs for a bundle price in a F2P title, and then slowly release free versions of the same Mechs.

You can rage on as much as you like about how PGI missed this promise or that deadline. But in the end, you're still here. And so am i, because the core gameplay in MWO is quite fun. Future content such as CW is going to be just one more way for me to enjoy MWO. I don't even care when they do it, since i still enjoy my Conquest and Assault modes.

Also:
https://www.google.c...channel=suggest

Well now .. Look at that. a whole bunch of stuff promised but delayed from your infallible Sony.

The point is we're not playing that game here. We're playing this one. How about you let the forum trolls on THAT forum worry about their pricing.
Angry birds is free, they charge $1 for the game if you want free updates for the life of the game that adds new levels.
There, I made a F2P comparison to a game that actually has more story line behind it than MWO does currently

[Reitrix]

Sandpit, on 18 December 2013 - 08:33 AM, said:

The point is we're not playing that game here. We're playing this one. How about you let the forum trolls on THAT forum worry about their pricing.
Angry birds is free, they charge $1 for the game if you want free updates for the life of the game that adds new levels.
There, I made a F2P comparison to a game that actually has more story line behind it than MWO does currently

Was more just in relation to people flipping out over the prices in general for the Clan stuff. Was sorta kinda on topic. But not quite. Meh.