19 replies to this topic

[StillRadioactive]

Please note that the Griffin is new, so as new information pours in, I'll update this. Part guide, part diary. Dear reader, you'll be with me as I learn how to use this chassis... and if you have any builds that are vastly different from mine, I'll be glad to try them.

Let's start with the most important thing you need to know for this chassis: tactics. It's a tricky one. You don't have the speed of a Cicada, the power of a Shadow Hawk or the zombie ability of a Centurion. What you have is maneuverability. With an insane 130 degrees of torso twist to each side, 10% increased twist speed, and the capability to mount a 360XL engine and jumpjets in any variant, this is the best medium chassis for getting around rough terrain.

You also have enormous shield arms. Use that to your advantage. You want your builds to focus on keeping a low time-on-target, that way you can twist your torso away from any incoming return fire.

With that in mind, let's look at our first variant, the GRF-1N.
GRF-1N

The purpose of this mech in tabletop is to jump around the outskirts of the battle, taking pot-shots with the PPC when heat allows, and the LRM when it needs to cool off. In MWO, however, it's far too slow to accomplish that. This is 3050, after all, not 3025. XL engines mean that any stock Griffin is likely to find itself run down by enemy mediums or lights, and unable to return fire when they get within 90m. My first build was an attempt to solve that problem.

LRM Grieffin'

Spoiler

This mech has been quite successful for me, averaging 350-400 damage per game, with some exceptional games pushing nearly 600. The tactics are quite strange, though, and change drastically based upon the situation.

When your team is in a melee, you're most effective around 800m from the edge of the brawl, poking at targets that are already engaged with one of your teammates and thus too distracted to return fire. Use the LRMs to make them panic, and the ERPPC to pick at any open wounds you find.

When your team is being chased, try to flank around the back of the pursuing force and get the attention of 2 or 3 of their heaviest (and slowest) mechs. Lock one target and light it up with LRMs, while you take shots with the ERPPC at the others to keep their attention. Stay around 950m from them. Their ERLLs will barely be able to touch you, and their LRMs will have to fly farther than 1000m since you're running away, while yours will still be able to hit because they're coming toward you. AC2s will be an annoyance, but you have the armor to largely ignore them. AC5s do very little damage at that range, and AC10s and AC20s are worthless that far away. If they brought ERPPCs, you need to keep your movements erratic to prevent them from hitting you.

When you come across one unsupported enemy light, you want to get close. You'll never hit with the LRMs, so you want to hit him in the feet with your ERPPC at point blank range, until you rip off a leg. Then you can sprint away at 106kph, firing all your weapons directly behind you thanks to that glorious 130deg torso twist (130 + 10% = 144deg. 35deg arm rotation makes 179. +10% means you have 184 degrees of firing arc for arm weapons on EACH SIDE.)

If you come across multiple lights, RUN. Run as quickly as you can back to your team. You have the armor to survive for about 90 seconds with two lights ripping into you. Use that incredible torso twist to keep your left side toward them, and take potshots with the ERPPC whenever it's available.

Now, on to the next variant.
GRF-1S

This variant was designed to sacrifice a little bit of long-range punch in exchange for eliminating its minimum range and splitting up the weapons so you don't lose everything to a hard RT hit. In tabletop, you'd go with the GRF-1S if your force was going to be mostly Griffins, or if the terrain made it too difficult for the Griffin to keep at long range. Other than that, the tactics were largely the same.

I went a completely different route, though:
GRF-1S

Spoiler

This thing is an attack dog, pure and simple. Frozen City and HPG are what you hope for every time you drop with it. Hug buildings, dart across alleyways, blasting an alpha strike at the hapless enemy Assault mechs. Chase down overconfident Cicadas and Commandos. Just make sure you protect that right arm!

I've been getting between 400 and 650 damage per game with this build on those maps, down to about 300 on the heat maps and Alpine. There's really not much more that can be said about this build... just get close and use cover, and you'll have a blast.

Now, on to the last variant (now that I've played with it a little bit.)
GRF-3M

Looking at it, you'll notice that it's extremely similar to my first GRF-1N build. They upgraded the heat sinks to doubles to compensate for the switch from PPC to ERPPC. They also pulled the STD270 in favor of an XL275 and used the extra weight to double the number of tubes on the LRM launcher. So far so good.

It doesn't have Endo or FF, so you've got some room to upgrade... but what can you do with it that you can't do with the -1N?

You may think, from experience with the GRF-1N, that one ERPPC is good so two ERPPCs must be better! You'll end up with something like this:
GRF-3M

Spoiler

DON'T DO THIS. IT'S TERRIBLE. There's no such thing as heat management, you just throw a couple blasts down range and hope you're not shut down too long. Spoiler alert: YOU'RE ALWAYS SHUT DOWN TOO LONG.

So, after that I went back to the drawing board, DETERMINED to make use of that left torso energy hardpoint. This is what I tried next:
GRF-3M

Spoiler

It's better than the 2x ERPPC fiasco, that's for sure... but I can't say I like it. It doesn't have the reach or the punch of a single ERPPC, and it doesn't have the psychological effect of 3xLRM5. I don't hate it, but I don't like it either... at least it runs cool.

It doesn't look like I'll be able to improve on that GRF-1N build with this variant. I could increase my survivability by popping the ERPPC into the LT hardpoint, rather than the RA, but then I'd lose my ability to deal with light mechs... so I'm going to go another route. I'm going to try improving on the GRF-1S!
GRF-3M

Spoiler

I like it, but not as much as the GRF-1S. It runs cooler and it punches hard, but the weapon grouping is just too strange with my mouse. Between the two, I'd take the GRF-1S.

Alright, so... I'm on the right track, but it needs some more improvement. I'm going to have one more go at finding a unique role for the -3M. Let's see how this treats me:
GRF-3M

Spoiler

OOOOOHHHHHH YEAH BABY! This has the close-range punch of the GRF-1S, it can reach out and touch the enemy thanks to that ERLL, and most importantly... it has two shield arms. This thing can take a beating like a Centurion and it never loses a weapon until you're dead. It's just brilliant.

Edited by StillRadioactive, 18 December 2013 - 11:23 PM.

[Kai Harper]

Ooh, I've been in some of these tests! ...On both sides, I believe. Please keep this updated - I'm quite interested in picking up at least one Griffin when they go the C-bills.

[StillRadioactive]

Kai Harper, on 18 December 2013 - 04:52 PM, said:

Ooh, I've been in some of these tests! ...On both sides, I believe. Please keep this updated - I'm quite interested in picking up at least one Griffin when they go the C-bills.

I just hope that my post convinces people to use the Griffin. It's been on my top-10 list since I discovered BattleTech at age 5, and it hasn't been in one of the video games since Crescent Hawks' Revenge in 1990. It's about time we got our hands on it!

[Kai Harper]

Even if it doesn't get massive recognition, there'll probably be a solid group of dedicated Griffin lovers playing. =P

[StillRadioactive]

Edited for GRF-3M.

[xengk]

Ran into a number of them last night.
Those thing spread damage like a Centurion and feels almost as tough as a Tbolt.
Griffin have excellent survivability, but is offset by having all their weapon invested on one side of the body.
Which can be a good thing, as you can use the weapon bare side of the body as a large shield.

[Sandra McCrow]

I must say, that griffin is the first medium piloting which I suddenly feel comfartable. I concur with the "survivability", a lot of games this last night I was finishing without hands and with torsi in critical and still alive.
Allocation of the hardpoints is actually not that bad - at list not with my crappy Elo level. Side torsi are well protected, so when you lose the arm it's not entirely an end of the world. The best one in this regard is 2E 4M variant - there are 4 missile points on the RT and a very convenient energy point on the LT that's mounted high enough for sniping and is not easily destructible. Both arms work like shields there, so...
Damage output also seems to be satisfying: I scored a number of games with 500+ damage (top was 741 i guess with some kills).
I can only add that 7jj work very nicely and effectively eliminating the "oh-get-your-bloody-back-out-of-my-line-of-fire-i-am-shooting-here!". Jump sniping/lmring/ssrming works fine.
Oh and finally if you were wondering - number of tubes for launchers does adjust, so no "place-that-second-bit-of-smr-right-where-you've-put-the-first-one...-right...-that-distant-hill-over-there" problems.

On the account of the wolverines can't say anything yet, I have couple o good builds that I was going to try out, but frankly atm I am a bit frustarted by the fact that it does not wield shoulder mounted energy weapons (snipe PPC yay!)

Stay tuned.

Edited by Sandro Mc, 19 December 2013 - 04:03 AM.

[Arctourus]

Made my 3m a light hunter...two mlas, four ssrms and a bap. Upgrade the engine to xl360. Works great if you can find and stick around lights. Not as good around heavier mechs.

[Bhelogan]

I have not been able to effectively brawl in these things (unlike my beloved SDH). Been using various LRM builds though. As a fairly mobile missile platform, it can be a good harasser.

[Johnny Two Legs]

Arctourus, on 19 December 2013 - 12:44 PM, said:

Made my 3m a light hunter...two mlas, four ssrms and a bap. Upgrade the engine to xl360. Works great if you can find and stick around lights. Not as good around heavier mechs.

I tried that build, though with a 350XL for extra JJ's.
I didn't like that build as the SSRM's can take a while to lock on if the light/medium mech is agile enough to duck out of the targeting reticule or if there's cover in the way - meaning I couldn't use the Griffins great torso twist to block incoming fire. This is made harder as the Streaks aren't on the arms, so you need to really face your torso towards the enemy.

I may try that build again but I didn't like it as much as reduced my 'snap fire' and torso twisting capabilities.

J2L

[Mercer Skye]

Builds I'm currently running;

GRF 1N (Medium Support Super Star); So, this one steps a bit out of Griffin's comfort zone, as it replaces the 'sidearm' LRM with a bigger punch. Streak 2's for eating up lights that are harassing the outside of y our frontline, and breaking the PPC's weight down into two 'surgical' MLas's and a Tag to team up with the BAP for maximum ECM countering.

Still working through efficiencies, but already seeing matches in the 500ish dmg range, and even with the XL, this thing brawls like a monster.

GRF 1S (One Shot, One Kill); If only, sadly. But this has proven to be my 'go to' Griffin sniper build. Yes, it's not sporting fifty PPCs to knock sides off, but what it DOES have, is a close range package in case a light finds you. Still iffy on this one, but it's eking out about 400ish damage before Master Slot so far.

GRF 3M (LRM Sniper); 4 Artemis 5's only weighs one more ton than a 20, with the advantage that you can 'select fire' the systems. (2x 5's for a '10,' Chainfire 5's, or one mass 20). One MPlas is a bit light for a close range sidearm, so it wouldn't be a bad idea necessarily to swap the Tag out for a medium laser. Five Tons of ammo seems a touch light, but being able to streamline your missile usage with four fives makes you quite versatile and efficient.

Overall, it's a very solid rig, and I'm pretty sure it will prove to have it's own niche in the 55T medium bracket.

[xengk]

Arctourus, on 19 December 2013 - 12:44 PM, said:

Made my 3m a light hunter...two mlas, four ssrms and a bap. Upgrade the engine to xl360. Works great if you can find and stick around lights. Not as good around heavier mechs.

I have something similar.
But I drop the engine to STD 275, replace 1 MLaz with a LPLaz.
Instead of a light hunter, it works as a fly swatter.
Stay with the group and swat away any lights that try to harass our group, the LPLaz can still hurt big target and give me abit more range.

[Zordicron]

I have only run the 3M. Mostly because I want to drop XL into all of them and i dont have the cash, and that one had one and DHS.
So I left it, but added endo I think. Then swapped in 4 SRM missiles:
1 SRM 6
1 SRM4
2 SRM2

added 2 LL to round it off. used the leftover tonnage to max out the torsos, and i think right arm.

Anyway, it is a tough little cookie, but you need to keep moving. It is easy to move, like a hunchback, and with SRM, plays sort of like one as your torso crosshair has the real power behind it.

Chainfire all SRM, for heat, and also because a lot of enemy players will be alarmed at the "bang" as it seems like it doesnt stop with the 4 launchers. 2 LL adds solid dmg.

Use the speed(mine goes 81 stock yet) and JJ, and never just run at something. Always strafe, and if they look at you, jump with torso twisted. When you land, rip off those SRM into their face to keep them off balance.

I have only run a few matches so far, but got 250-350 dmg in all of them with 0-2 basics unlocked( did the two heat ones as I earned XP to do it)

I really like this thing so far. it feels pretty nimble compared to the wolverine IMO. Both mechs so far for me feel roughly equal in durability though, however I think the wolverine would do better with LRM as a mid range mech compared to dancing brawler the Griffen can pull off.

[Arnold J Rimmer]

Fantastic OP. Good builds!

I found the -1N and -3M I ran as ALRM5-carriers ("What CT and lack of screen shake? You're talking madness."), and the -1S I used SRMs. I'm not sure why - I don't tend to mix missile types between variants, only chassis - but this was the only way I could get each GRF to 'feel right'. At least for my play style.

Plans for a WVR post?

[Bishop Steiner]

too much engine on most of these. And too much ignoring of the JJs, which are part of it's mobility. Even with a 360, too many things can catch you. And a 300XL give plenty of mobility, leaving room for guns. Plus you follow to similar a base set up in all 3. You can do a lot more on the 3M if you aren't determined to try to race Cicadas with it.

Also the 3M works best, IMO, with a quad pack of SSRMs.

[Sandra McCrow]

I second this. XL340 or 320 or even 300 is pretty much enough. While 1-2JJ is not, since it does not give edge against shadowhaks..

The two of the builds I like the most so far:

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...317fbfec1c74234

- 103kmph with 6 jets and i think you can make it seven if you really wish to at the expense of armour or ammo or heat sink. Supposedly it does 2 things good: sniping and light hunting. However it appears that a combination of 4 streaks with a pinpoint 10 and surprisingly nice heat makes it a very decent in close range against literally anything (well 5streak kintaro would be something I would try not to fight up close - it may cost you too much integrity). When brawling with couple allies though don't forget that you are probably the one (and only) in the company that can make a spider run after couple volleys, so if you see enemy lights taking advantage of your company preoccupied remember it's you to be first to break lock from the slowly dying assault to fright the light away from you.
ERPPC is good for both sniping and "shoot-n-twist dance". What's particularly nice about it in a brawl is the ability to instantly return fire to any foe interfering from the distance.
Finally the overall allocation of your weapons means that you have two shield arms and don't that much care about loosing em.
I did not liked jumpjets on my lights, but on the griffin I think the more the merrier. 6jj allows to shoot over buildings and ridges and rocks and backs of your team mates non-stop, minimizing your horizontal extent from the brawl (e.g. you don't need to go all the way around the corner to launch that final volley at the escaping light, yes that very corner where 3 assaults are waiting).

I don't that much like mediums, so the versatility of this Griffin came as a very nice surprise. I pulled nice 460damage yesterday on the river city skirmish by erppcing almost non-stop from the roof in the upper city at the brawl that was developing in the plain water between lower city and the usual lower spawn. My very best game was probably 5 kills on the river city night map with some 500 to 1000 damage (don't remember) in a constant brawl. Finishing without arms is common, and last game yesterday I have won with a only just moderate 350 damage 3 kills and only one limb to speak of - my right leg (I think last two kills were already on one leg). Very glad I got Saber.
Oh and the link is lacking the artemis which is a must for a streak boat, even though an unintended must.

Another build that I like on all of the griffins is ALRM30:
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...93e96903021786c

- used it to elite all three chassis (3M obviously comes with 2 more jj and one less laser and is the weakest among three with this build).

Edited by Sandro Mc, 25 December 2013 - 09:24 AM.

[xengk]

Currently working on the GRF-1N.
A very basic loadout of 3 MLaz and 2x ASRM6 support brawler, backup with 14 DHS, STD 275 and 2 JJ.
It is like a jumping Centurion.

[Horus XIII]

Once they are available for cbills (when is that?), I plan to run this 3M

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...88dfb3bd86b69e9

Basically a tweak on Sandro's build.

[Elyam]

Posted in this thread indicating my strong satisfaction with the Griffin, something historically very important to me:
http://mwomercs.com/...-disappointing/

I've been running all 3 variants with the 275XL and all 7 jets. High jet agility means higher engines are unnecessary, and the heavier loadouts serve better than attempting to be a lead pursuit mech (though that is possible, and effectively so).

1N(P): ERPPC, 2 MLAS, LRM-10A, 2 SSRM-2 (or 1 SRM-4A), BAP, 11DHS, Endo; very versatile; LRM used not for indirect fire support but as a direct addition to the ERPPC usually at medium ranges since flight path is quick, need to hold lock is short, and thus maneuver options stay open; heat management is, of course, dependent on limiting use of the ERPPC when the close-range weapons are in high use; to uphold the traditional role of the GRF as a PPC sniper, it's important to exercise patience and disciplined aim control to make every particle bolt count (starting a match with lots of foolish misses is to be avoided)

1S: ERLLAS, 3 MPLAS, 2 SRM-4, 14 DHS, Endo; built more for close assault; heat management with periodic chain-fire of MLAS and SRMs and limited close use of the ERLLAS

3M: 4 LRM-5, 2 MPLAS, BAP, AMS, 11DHS, Endo; works very well for medium indirect fire support; decent ammo load, while retaining room for support systems; good maneuver means ability to reach best launch points; still experimenting with alternate load using LT ERPPC, RA LPLAS, and SRMs

Edited by Elyam, 25 December 2013 - 10:30 PM.

[Dulahan]

This...

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...c8f58e3ea8b55cc

Responsible for my highest score ever outside an Atlas with the possible exception of once long ago with a Catapult before the LRM Nerf. 738 points.

Actually, the 738 was with a pre-Endosteel version too. Still only a 275 XL in that version, not the 300XL, which has better speed and heat management due to the extra internal one. Plus this version gets an extra ton of Ammo. And more Armor.

Edited by Dulahan, 26 December 2013 - 11:58 AM.