77 replies to this topic

[80sGlamRockSensation David Bowie]

Ok, first off -- ignore everything that people have posted above.
Except for Effectz and Feb, why?

NO ONE ELSE HERE has run in league matches where this shlt matters and have hands on experience

(Disclaimer: If I missed anyone, its because I just scanned through for people in "higher" brackets league units. Get a damn unit signature!)

From my personal experience in RHoD, Marik, Remnant Invataional, and breif sub-in with Proxis, etc.; here is what people generally run..


Shadow Hawk
AC20/PPC (STD250-260)
AC20/LL or 2xmLas (STD260-280)
2xUAC5 (STD250-260) [I've actually only seen a select few units run this a limited number of times]
4xSSRM2 + Whatever (XL 360)


Those are generally ALL that you're going to see. Some units do run 2xPPC/Ac5 variants with XL's, but ONLY in heavier drops where the game will boil down to a sniper battle. XL Shawks in Comp Drops are horrible in brawls due to those sides torsos.


Edit: Thanks Febrosian R Gilingham for more clearification below on armor/ammo placement.

Best of luck to your unit Fate 6

Edited by mwhighlander, 20 December 2013 - 07:34 AM.

[Fate 6]

mwhighlander, on 19 December 2013 - 12:45 PM, said:

Ok, first off -- ignore everything that people have posted above.
Except for Effectz, why?

NO ONE ELSE HERE has run in league matches where this shlt matters and have hands on experience

(Disclaimer: If I missed anyone, its because I just scanned through for people in "higher" brackets league units. Get a damn unit signature!)

From my personal experience in RHoD, Marik, Remnant Invataional, and breif sub-in with Proxis, etc.; here is what people generally run..


Shadow Hawk
AC20/PPC (STD250-260)
AC20/LL or 2xmLas (STD260-280)
2xUAC5 (STD250-260) [I've actually only seen a select few units run this a limited number of times]
4xSSRM2 + Whatever (XL 360)


Those are generally ALL that you're going to see. Some units do run 2xPPC/Ac5 variants with XL's, but ONLY in heavier drops where the game will boil down to a sniper battle. XL Shawks in Comp Drops are horrible in brawls due to those sides torsos.

Thank you for actually answering the original question.

I've been running AC20/2ML a lot (mostly because that's my style) and recently saw some AC20+PPCs on Victors so I was looking into that. I thought the ERPPC+2AC5 build was suspicious when the heat was high even on River City. I'll probably try the AC20/PPC or AC20/LL build now. Again, thanks for the suggestion, my Clan really needs more brawling power from our mediums and that's what I've always excelled at anyway.

Thank you everyone else for your thoughts as well. I've run pretty much every build out there for a Shadowhawk (and just any medium in general) and I just need to focus on what is actually the tournament-accepted standards.

EDIT: How do you realistically fit AC20+PPC into a SHD? I only have a half ton of space with a STD260 and that's only with 1 JJ and no ammo.

Edited by Fate 6, 19 December 2013 - 02:59 PM.

[80sGlamRockSensation David Bowie]

Fate 6, on 19 December 2013 - 02:49 PM, said:

EDIT: How do you realistically fit AC20+PPC into a SHD? I only have a half ton of space with a STD260 and that's only with 1 JJ and no ammo.

You can do it on any variant, but try something along these lines...

Shawk AC20/ppc

[Fate 6]

mwhighlander, on 19 December 2013 - 03:08 PM, said:

You can do it on any variant, but try something along these lines...

Shawk AC20/ppc

K, I'll have to get a STD250 but that's no big deal.

Care to explain the thoughts behind:
-Ammo placement
-No armor in left arm

[80sGlamRockSensation David Bowie]

Ammo in legs because most people will aim for your torsos, -> chance of ammo explosions. You can also put it in your head, but the amount of potential damage received there from the constant rain of artillery and air strikes is ... risky.

The general idea is, you want to place your ammo is sections that is going to be "crit-padded" so that you reduce the likely hood you die to an ammo explosion crit. Two best ways to do this is shoot the ammo, which implies doing damage; and by placing equipment or weapons on them (like with the AC20 in the torso or JJ in the opposite leg). Both will "crit-pad" the ammo, making it less likely to go off in a bang.

[Phra]

Light hunter:
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...0cb83a49a0797d1

AC20 brawler:
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...5168f7b6ec74035

Mini poptart:
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...3e31824c72bb928

Those are my Hawks.

[Febrosian R Gillingham]

You'll definitely want to get a std 250 engine - for competitive play its one of the most-used engines. Its the minimum engine that has all 10 heatsinks built in and operating as actual double heatsinks (2.0 heat dissipation rather than 1.4 from heatsinks you place manually). It is also shared between a number of competitive medium and heavy builds, especially shadowhawks and cataphracts in the current meta.

More on ammo placement - mwhighlander's build has ammo in the head, right leg, and left torso. Other than arty/airstrikes, the head is usually a very safe place to store ammo. Leg storage is good but teams now tend to leg shadowhawks, especially light lances, so minimizing this as much as you can is good. Leg ammo is stored in the opposite side of the main weapon so if it does explode it won't destroy the weapon (internal explosions from the legs will transfer from right leg->right torso->CT, leaving LT intact). Left torso ammo - since that also holds your main weapon, you should be shielding that side when not firing. You'll only need to fire 7 ac20 rounds before the ammo in the LT is spent and no longer an explosion hazard, which is very reasonable for a shadowhawk to do before taking serious LT damage.

As for cutting arm armor - general rule: if it doesn't have anything in it, cut armor to save tonnage for engine, ammo, or heatsinks. This build JUST gets to the std 250 engine with minimum ammo/heatsinks, so there is no tonnage to spare for a shield arm.

All of the variants listed in MWH's and Phra's posts can be competitively viable in the right deck, but the ac20/ppc is by far the most common and versatile. Its a good shorter-ranged jump sniper that can brawl decently and still move fast enough to support lights when really necessary.

[Bagheera]

Phra, on 20 December 2013 - 04:52 AM, said:

Mini poptart:
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...3e31824c72bb928

Those are my Hawks.

Hmm. Need to get me that xl280, had to build my MetaHawk with an xl300, which means skimping more on armor and ammo.

Definitely lots of people going for legs down in regular old Joe land as well.

[Fate 6]

Febrosian R Gillingham, on 20 December 2013 - 07:10 AM, said:

You'll definitely want to get a std 250 engine - for competitive play its one of the most-used engines. Its the minimum engine that has all 10 heatsinks built in and operating as actual double heatsinks (2.0 heat dissipation rather than 1.4 from heatsinks you place manually). It is also shared between a number of competitive medium and heavy builds, especially shadowhawks and cataphracts in the current meta.

More on ammo placement - mwhighlander's build has ammo in the head, right leg, and left torso. Other than arty/airstrikes, the head is usually a very safe place to store ammo. Leg storage is good but teams now tend to leg shadowhawks, especially light lances, so minimizing this as much as you can is good. Leg ammo is stored in the opposite side of the main weapon so if it does explode it won't destroy the weapon (internal explosions from the legs will transfer from right leg->right torso->CT, leaving LT intact). Left torso ammo - since that also holds your main weapon, you should be shielding that side when not firing. You'll only need to fire 7 ac20 rounds before the ammo in the LT is spent and no longer an explosion hazard, which is very reasonable for a shadowhawk to do before taking serious LT damage.

As for cutting arm armor - general rule: if it doesn't have anything in it, cut armor to save tonnage for engine, ammo, or heatsinks. This build JUST gets to the std 250 engine with minimum ammo/heatsinks, so there is no tonnage to spare for a shield arm.

All of the variants listed in MWH's and Phra's posts can be competitively viable in the right deck, but the ac20/ppc is by far the most common and versatile. Its a good shorter-ranged jump sniper that can brawl decently and still move fast enough to support lights when really necessary.

Thanks, exactly what I was looking for.

I've started running 2UAC5, AC20+PPC, and AC20+2ML on my 3 SHDs, been seeing success with all of them in PUG games. Need to get the gang on to try them in 12s - not an easy thing to accomplish in these times.

[Pastor Priest]

I run dual AC5+ ER PPC, AC20+ two ML, and quad SSRM + two ML. Mostly in PUGs, but have had success in the occasional 12 man. I might try the AC20 +PPC. But I must say, that AC20+ two ML is a lot of fun.

[Bigg Robb]

I've narrowed down and settled on this. Seems to work real well. And I have a personal thing about trying to keep with a canonical Mech's design intent, and the SHD was my favorite tabletop Mech.

SHD-RM Robb

The Shadowhawk to me is MVP. It's supports all roles but masters none of them. It's a fantastic skirmisher. This weapons loadout gives me something to shoot at just about anything at all ranges, and that LB10 is great for as much moving and jumping as that Mech should do. I haven't seen any problems with XL on this Mech, unlike my T-Bolt.

P.S. - someone mentioned the AC2/AC5 combo. I rock that with head mounted TAG on my Hunchie. Serious damage until I get my RT blown off. The staggered fire of the 2 units together mean the target Mech never stops shaking and most pilots under that get spooked.

[Trauglodyte]

I toyed around with the AC20/PPC build this weekend. The lack of speed is disturbing when you get so used to going 110+ kph in the other builds. That being said, it did work but it is grossly dependent upon your team (ie, using this in PUG drops isn't recommended). Personally, I'm better set in my Streakhawks.

PS> As Febrosian said, the two most used engines in this game are the 250 STD and the 300 XL. Stock up and rock on.

[80sGlamRockSensation David Bowie]

For those who do not actively involve themselves in any type of MW:O league, do not post your shawk build in this thread.

A comp loadout is much different than whatever {Scrap} you are putting in a shadow hawk.

[Escef]

mwhighlander, on 23 December 2013 - 09:37 AM, said:

For those who do not actively involve themselves in any type of MW:O league, do not post your shawk build in this thread.

A comp loadout is much different than whatever {Scrap} you are putting in a shadow hawk.

Hey, here's an idea, why don't you pop into the thread and say this every other day?

[Selfish]

The AC/20 + (ER)PPC is by far the most common. It's a great main line mech for lighter drops. I also like the 3x AC/2 in heavier deck snipe fests, but only if you expect ER utility picks like 3Ls and STKs. It can counter a team's ER snipers in falloff fights while still bullying the jump line.

Legging Shadow Hawks is almost always the best course of action for lights. They're hard as hell to miss, even more difficult to protect, and a legged mech opens up some objective options. Expect lights to dance around ~400m, so try and position/travel through areas that make them give up that advantage.

[Roughneck45]

250 engine and an AC20, backed up by either a PPC, streaks, or medium lasers. You have room for upgrades if you go with medium lasers.

Triple AC2 can be fun, but is generally less effective. 2 AC5+PPC or 2PPC+AC5 builds are good too, but usually have to run an XL, which is a bad idea.

Edited by Roughneck45, 23 December 2013 - 02:50 PM.

[Diego Angelus]

Roughneck45, on 23 December 2013 - 02:49 PM, said:

250 engine and an AC20, backed up by either a PPC, streaks, or medium lasers. You have room for upgrades if you go with medium lasers.

Triple AC2 can be fun, but is generally less effective. 2 AC5+PPC or 2PPC+AC5 builds are good too, but usually have to run an XL, which is a bad idea.

XL or STD its hard decision both have pros and cons at first i thought STD is the way but after trying suggested builds i found that dual AC5 with PPC just does best because you still have speed to move around like medium should and if you know you are going into brawl I found 5M best option 2ML/2streaks/2ac5 just dishes out more damage then ac20 and with speed to protect that torso. So it all comes down on team and how you want to employ it. It is always going to be dangerous to use XL in competitive match since you can die in one shoot but situation with AC20 is not better If i remember correctly armor on legs of those are week and its slow so its hard to get in position to use weapons in its effective range.

[Roughneck45]

Diego Angelus, on 23 December 2013 - 03:03 PM, said:

XL or STD its hard decision

Nope, standard every time, if you are serious about winning.

Playing for fun, can go with either.

[Diego Angelus]

Roughneck45, on 23 December 2013 - 03:05 PM, said:

Nope, standard every time, if you are serious about winning.

Playing for fun, can go with either.

I know I do use STD but I'm starting to wonder because If I lose that AC20 I feel like I already died

[JayVrb]

Phoenix Hawk

Nets me over 400 average, easy. I've gotten up to a thousand a few times. For me, it's a proven build.

Ignore the "standard only" nonsense. Hunchback, yes. This thing, no. It spreads damage like a champ and I rarely get side-torso'd. It's the only medium save the Cicada that, in my opinion, can safely run an XL.

Edited by Vrbas, 23 December 2013 - 05:05 PM.