57 replies to this topic

[War Roar]

- Elo doesnt seem to give a {Scrap} that I'm brand new - and makes me fight elite 4 mans.
- As soon as I cleared match 25, it became mostly "cheese" as they say, every match.
( I noted that its not so much pilot skill as it is a fairness in weapons loadouts. )
- At least before match 25 there were some champions on both sides and stock builds.
( You didnt get insta-gibbed from massive lrm rain and numerous incoming ballistics rounds. But people still fought well. )
- After match 25, its a nightmare of cheese ballistics, massive lrm rain, and jump snipers.
- Matches snowball out of control after a few deaths on either side.
- No PuG only queue.
- No tonnage matching.
- No class matching.
- No effective team coordination commands. No voice coordination.
- And wheres the damn lobby ? I mean there is zero player interface till a match starts. No help, no one to ask questions. If my buddy didnt talk me into playing and I couldnt call him and ask questions I'd be fully clueless still.

Bottom line is HUGELY unfair and imbalanced match experiences. I mean its not even fun. You either roll the enemy team, or you get rolled by the enemy team. Occassionally you get a few close ones but usually its getting overwhelmed one way or the other.

Stock only build queue, or pug only queue would seem to be HUGE features that would smooth the experience out massively. Class matching as well.

It just straight up feels like nothing is effectively matched well. Its a total {Scrap} shoot.

[Lil Cthulhu]

Oh man, another one of these threads.

Maybe PGI will listen this time...... maybe.....












(they won't)

[Mycrus]

Oh yummy rage... Ill tell you what dload teamspeak3 find me or anybody else to play with... You will feel better after stompings pugs in a "elite" premade...

[Blurry]

Mycrus, on 20 December 2013 - 07:22 PM, said:

Oh yummy rage... Ill tell you what dload teamspeak3 find me or anybody else to play with... You will feel better after stompings pugs in a "elite" premade...

no - give me a solo q
Just because you need to be carried doesnt mean others do.
give us a solo q and leaderboards too! wow retention maybe?

But then all you guys would quit right? cant get the easy win so the game will suck.

[Junkman7mgte]

Blurry, on 21 December 2013 - 04:30 AM, said:

no - give me a solo q
Just because you need to be carried doesnt mean others do.
give us a solo q and leaderboards too! wow retention maybe?

But then all you guys would quit right? cant get the easy win so the game will suck.

I almost exclusively pug. I --- DONT'T WANT --- a solo queue. Splitting the player base like that IMO, is detrimental to the game, moreso than the possibility of being rolled hard. I actually would like to see ELO dropped, and the only people I don't have to play against, are 12 mans. Playing against better players than myself, has made me better at every game I've ever played. Getting owned to often ? Team up, or change something in your own playstyle. I do have a slight advantage .... an 18yo son that sometimes drops with me, or watches me, and tells me wtf I'm doing wrong, LMAO

[Lyoto Machida]

Blurry, on 21 December 2013 - 04:30 AM, said:

no - give me a solo q
Just because you need to be carried doesnt mean others do.
give us a solo q and leaderboards too! wow retention maybe?

But then all you guys would quit right? cant get the easy win so the game will suck.

Yes...everyone who uses Teamspeak would all just quit the game if this happened. It's best you don't mention this to PGI...we have no idea how big the playerbase currently is and it could be the nail in the coffin for this game. In fact, you should probably edit your post so the mods don't see it.

[Bors Mistral]

It would be insanity to try and defend the current matchmaking, but...

War Roar, on 20 December 2013 - 06:29 PM, said:

- Elo doesnt seem to give a {Scrap} that I'm brand new - and makes me fight elite 4 mans.

If you're so brand new, how would you now who's "elite"? Maybe "regular" players still seem like gods to you?

War Roar, on 20 December 2013 - 06:29 PM, said:

- At least before match 25 there were some champions on both sides and stock builds.
( You didnt get insta-gibbed from massive lrm rain and numerous incoming ballistics rounds. But people still fought well. )
- After match 25, its a nightmare of cheese ballistics, massive lrm rain, and jump snipers.

Not going to discuss poptarts, but complaining about LRMs? They have partially messed up hit detection, require a line of sight, an you can freaking take cover quite easily. Also, good use frellin' ECM pretty much invalidates them if your team's not specifically equipped to deal with it.

War Roar, on 20 December 2013 - 06:29 PM, said:

- No effective team coordination commands. No voice coordination.

Call up the battlemap. Use it. It's a bit clunky, but it works miracles for team coordination when the team actually listens... which is not as rare as you'd expect, one someone actually bothers to take lead. In-game void (with a mute function) would be great. In the meantime - go to NGNG's TeamSpea.

[Tangelis]

There are modifications coming to the MM in the near future, IE: Tonnage limits etc.. But for the most part it works fine. Of course there are lopsided matches, anything that uses numbers to generate what we call a "Fair Game" can not factor in human thinking or good/bad luck. To put it in a different perspective: even the greatest goalie in world history got scored on regularly. Even with the new MM elements lopsided matches will occur. There is no real fantasy mega-magic MM that will prevent it from happening from time to time.

The reason you're all over the board at the moment is because you have very few games under your belt still and thus a loss or a win greatly effects your position on the ELO ladder. As opposed to someone like me who is going on 4000 games played a few losses or wins in a row doesn't really move me up or down very much.

It is true however that in the beginning while your ELO finds its middle ground and balances out it is frustrating, and I sympathize for that. I'm sorry your experience has been a garbage one, but i can tell you that should you choose to stick it out your experience will improve considerably.

[Screech]

Bors Mistral, on 21 December 2013 - 06:46 AM, said:

If you're so brand new, how would you now who's "elite"? Maybe "regular" players still seem like gods to you?

I have played alt accounts where their first drop cadet drop is against 2000+ post forum users. I have dropped against tournament top 10 folks while still a cadet on alts. Please don't pretend what he has said is mostly true, the new user experience leaves much to be desired. I respect anyone who is able to pick this game up and hang from the start as this is a sink or swim game for new folks.

[Mudhutwarrior]

Screech, on 21 December 2013 - 08:53 AM, said:

I have played alt accounts where their first drop cadet drop is against 2000+ post forum users. I have dropped against tournament top 10 folks while still a cadet on alts. Please don't pretend what he has said is mostly true, the new user experience leaves much to be desired. I respect anyone who is able to pick this game up and hang from the start as this is a sink or swim game for new folks.

From my 8000 match account to a new one I saw the same thing. After the 25 your in with the jackals. Top that off with teams on Voip taking full advantage of instant comms and you have a slaughterfest. I saw no big difference between accounts dropping pug.
Now what I have learned from 8k matches is the majority of premades are no better than the average player. You catch them alone away from coordinated fire and they fall hard. Many times they run back to mamma as fast as they can. Some of the most virulent deniers here I faced on the field and their skill and superiority is an illusion. An illusion they wish to keep.

I am with you guys on that PGI really has to look hard at how unwelcoming the game is to new players, casuals and pugs. They spend money too. You don't have to be some mommas basement lore freak to enjoy the game. You do have to overcome some big obstacles though.

As an aside I would say ignore the guys telling you to team up so early in learning. You will easily become teammate dependent like most premades do. Just learn to stand your ground solo. Once you can do that the team part is easy to learn. Nothing good comes easy so pay your freight and fight. And welcome to the game. You see me out there say hi and stick close and we can win some together.

[Lykaon]

Here are the problems as I see them.

Weapon imbalances are largely due to certain weapons function contrary to the armor mechanics (concentrated accurate damage ACs and PPCs) while other function complimentry to the armor mechanics (dispursed damage like missiles and lasers)

MWo made a choice to pull an armor mechanic directly from the Battletech table top game.The armor mechanic was designed to function within the support structure of complimentry rules that are not only missing in MWo but the functionality of the video game are frequently directly contrary to the controls used in the table top game.

An armor mechanic specificly designed to function with complimentry mechanics that prevented accurate concentrations of damage being applied reliably to critical mech locations is now placed in an enviorment where accurate concentration of damage are common place.So the armor mechanics are failing under the strain of pin point alpha strikes.

results: Weapons that best exploit the weakness of the faulty armor mechanics are vastly superior to those that do not optimize exploitation of a failing mechanic.So as long as this persists take ballistics or PPCs over lasers or missiles.


The problem of solos vs teams is teams work together solos are solo.This is a team game so cooperation is mandatory.The failure of MWo is the means to achive the most efficent cooperation are not an intergral part of the game these tools are third party.Lacking in tools to communicate efficently has widened the gap between premade teams and pugs to the point that the mechanics of the game are strained to the breaking point when the matchmaker attempts to build a match.


So my opinion?

First priority is intergrated voice comms and pre and post match lobbies for organization of groups.

Next should be repairing fundimentaly flawed mechanics like the armor mechanics and role/info warfare.

After those are handled tweaks and balances should be much easyer to achieve because we would no longer be trying to circumvent core failings we would be directly working on specific issues.

[Lykaon]

Mudhutwarrior, on 21 December 2013 - 10:41 AM, said:

From my 8000 match account to a new one I saw the same thing. After the 25 your in with the jackals. Top that off with teams on Voip taking full advantage of instant comms and you have a slaughterfest. I saw no big difference between accounts dropping pug.
Now what I have learned from 8k matches is the majority of premades are no better than the average player. You catch them alone away from coordinated fire and they fall hard. Many times they run back to mamma as fast as they can. Some of the most virulent deniers here I faced on the field and their skill and superiority is an illusion. An illusion they wish to keep.

I am with you guys on that PGI really has to look hard at how unwelcoming the game is to new players, casuals and pugs. They spend money too. You don't have to be some mommas basement lore freak to enjoy the game. You do have to overcome some big obstacles though.

As an aside I would say ignore the guys telling you to team up so early in learning. You will easily become teammate dependent like most premades do. Just learn to stand your ground solo. Once you can do that the team part is easy to learn. Nothing good comes easy so pay your freight and fight. And welcome to the game. You see me out there say hi and stick close and we can win some together.

I would strongly recommend you read up on Mudhuts posting history he has an adjenda and is for whatever reason anti team/premade.He labors under the belief that somehow being cooperative and team oriented equates to a lack of individual skill.

Do not ignore players telling you to find a team that uses VOIP.

Speaking directly to unbiased experienced players who are willing to share their knowledge with you will vastly reduce the learning curve.

Using the phrase "teammate dependent" is proof that Mudhut has missed the boat on how teams work.
From the moment you enter a match every player is teammate dependent and that is a fact of team oriented competitive games.Without a team you are just a lone ******* waiting to be harvested by the enemy.

Mudhut and I however do agree that PGI needs to manage new users better and not simply throw the newbs to the sharks.

[Nik Van Rhijn]

War Roar, on 20 December 2013 - 06:29 PM, said:

- Elo doesnt seem to give a {Scrap} that I'm brand new - and makes me fight elite 4 mans.
- As soon as I cleared match 25, it became mostly "cheese" as they say, every match.
( I noted that its not so much pilot skill as it is a fairness in weapons loadouts. )
- At least before match 25 there were some champions on both sides and stock builds.
( You didnt get insta-gibbed from massive lrm rain and numerous incoming ballistics rounds. But people still fought well. )
- After match 25, its a nightmare of cheese ballistics, massive lrm rain, and jump snipers.
- Matches snowball out of control after a few deaths on either side.
- No PuG only queue.
- No tonnage matching.
- No class matching.
- No effective team coordination commands. No voice coordination.
- And wheres the damn lobby ? I mean there is zero player interface till a match starts. No help, no one to ask questions. If my buddy didnt talk me into playing and I couldnt call him and ask questions I'd be fully clueless still.

Bottom line is HUGELY unfair and imbalanced match experiences. I mean its not even fun. You either roll the enemy team, or you get rolled by the enemy team. Occassionally you get a few close ones but usually its getting overwhelmed one way or the other.

Stock only build queue, or pug only queue would seem to be HUGE features that would smooth the experience out massively. Class matching as well.

It just straight up feels like nothing is effectively matched well. Its a total {Scrap} shoot.

Game working as intended, fixes envisioned for 2018 as making mechs top sell takes priority over everything else.

[Jman5]

You certainly have some valid points, but I'd like to respond to a few others.

War Roar, on 20 December 2013 - 06:29 PM, said:

- Matches snowball out of control after a few deaths on either side.

I don't know what you could really do to counteract that fairly. It's just the nature of a non-respawning game. Small advantages compound and turn to large ones. The more people who die the easier it is for them to naturally focus fire because there are fewer potential targets. The damage trade also becomes unfavorable because there are simply more of them.

What I will say though, is that often times the disadvantage is misleading. Often there are several nearly dead targets and if you kill them it evens the game up. Generally what I try to do against overwhelming numbers is shoot while cycling targets trying to find those weak enemy.

Quote

- No PuG only queue.

I hear this a lot, but I don't think this is a viable approach. First off, few if any PUGs would play non-pug queue. What this means is that 3 mans would never be able to find groups because all the solo players who fill that 4th slot would be in another queue.

Quote

- No tonnage matching.
- No class matching.

Technically there is tonnage matching, but it's loose and gets screwed up by premades. The matchmaker prioritizes splitting up premades evenly between the teams over fair weight. It doesn't want one team to have all premades while the other has lone wolves. Unfortunately if the premades have wildly different weight you get this mismatch.

If it's any consolation, there is a change coming that will enforce strict weight limits on teams and premades (no more 4-man highlander squads). This is going to make weight matching easier.

Quote

- And wheres the damn lobby ? I mean there is zero player interface till a match starts. No help, no one to ask questions. If my buddy didnt talk me into playing and I couldnt call him and ask questions I'd be fully clueless still.

Coming soon^™

[Sheraf]

War Roar, on 20 December 2013 - 06:29 PM, said:

- Elo doesnt seem to give a {Scrap} that I'm brand new - and makes me fight elite 4 mans.
- As soon as I cleared match 25, it became mostly "cheese" as they say, every match.
( I noted that its not so much pilot skill as it is a fairness in weapons loadouts. )
- At least before match 25 there were some champions on both sides and stock builds.
( You didnt get insta-gibbed from massive lrm rain and numerous incoming ballistics rounds. But people still fought well. )
- After match 25, its a nightmare of cheese ballistics, massive lrm rain, and jump snipers.
- Matches snowball out of control after a few deaths on either side.
- No PuG only queue.
- No tonnage matching.
- No class matching.
- No effective team coordination commands. No voice coordination.
- And wheres the damn lobby ? I mean there is zero player interface till a match starts. No help, no one to ask questions. If my buddy didnt talk me into playing and I couldnt call him and ask questions I'd be fully clueless still.

Bottom line is HUGELY unfair and imbalanced match experiences. I mean its not even fun. You either roll the enemy team, or you get rolled by the enemy team. Occassionally you get a few close ones but usually its getting overwhelmed one way or the other.

Stock only build queue, or pug only queue would seem to be HUGE features that would smooth the experience out massively. Class matching as well.

It just straight up feels like nothing is effectively matched well. Its a total {Scrap} shoot.

Visit the new player help forum, that will solve your problem. Blaming the game doesn't help much.

[Mudhutwarrior]

Lykaon, on 21 December 2013 - 11:07 AM, said:

I would strongly recommend you read up on Mudhuts posting history he has an adjenda and is for whatever reason anti team/premade.He labors under the belief that somehow being cooperative and team oriented equates to a lack of individual skill.

Do not ignore players telling you to find a team that uses VOIP.

Speaking directly to unbiased experienced players who are willing to share their knowledge with you will vastly reduce the learning curve.

Using the phrase "teammate dependent" is proof that Mudhut has missed the boat on how teams work.
From the moment you enter a match every player is teammate dependent and that is a fact of team oriented competitive games.Without a team you are just a lone ******* waiting to be harvested by the enemy.

Mudhut and I however do agree that PGI needs to manage new users better and not simply throw the newbs to the sharks.

You miss the point. Teams are 12 men. Not 8 with 4 on another channel ignoring the rest. Its such a lie to call it a team game as it stands. I am all for team play and pull for the team I drop with. But calling it a team game when its not is just covering the sores. When Pugs drop with teams the usual result is either its a lousy team playing independently and you lose or its a crack team and your lucky to get a shot off. I just dropped with an 8 man in an atlas. By the time I got to the fight I got two 800 mtr shots off on the last man standing. It was over in less than two minutes. They only typing done was GG at the end.

Good Game? for who? Just the guys with comms. The rest were useless or slaughtered,

Far from a team game. More like sorority girls with rabies.

Edited by Mudhutwarrior, 21 December 2013 - 11:17 AM.

[Sandpit]

I'm glad someone finally got the nerve to post on this

[Mudhutwarrior]

A Sorority Girl with nothing to say... ever.

[Ashvins]

I'm in agreement with the OP as the Matchmaker is terrible.

SS of a recent match.


As you can see 4 assaults vs NONE. Pilot skill be dammed people, 4 assaults can easily take care of 1/2 or more of the team we had there. With the imbalance a D/DC brings to any match let alone 3 of the damm things and the opposing team with no assaults what so ever the outcome was easily foreseeable. Pilot skill can only go so far in balancing out weights of mechs. I'd much rather see a matchmaker that balances weight and ECM first then pilot skill.

[Damocles69]

We all know. Stop ranting. Buy more MC