1080 replies to this topic

[Almond Brown]

stjobe, on 03 January 2014 - 08:22 AM, said:

I'm always amazed when people don't take the 30 seconds it takes to load up smurfy in another browser tab and actually check before they post - especially in weapon balance threads...

This section would be relevant for the GP post: http://mwo.smurfy-net.de/#weapon_utils

"Support and utility weapons". Narc, TAG, AMS. Neither Narc nor TAG does any damage.

Ummm, so you do feel that NARC is a weapon then and not a Support "Tool"?

[Sandpit]

Joseph Mallan, on 07 January 2014 - 09:03 AM, said:

No matter the hair being split, Pilots only have one seat to put their butt in, having a Leopard class dropship available is just universe breaking. Dropships are very expensive pieces of hardware that whole lances/companies are needed to rent/buy. Planetary Assault campaign I could see having a few extra Mechs, but this is a logistics question I just have a hard time flexing on.

I agree, however, we already know dropship costs for merc units. That's the bonus to being a faction player as opposed to mercs at this point from what I understand. House players don't have to worry about that cost because it's absorbed by the house. mercs pay for it out of pocket.

This is one of the reasons I don't think "economy needs a buff" arguments are relevant at the moment. I think there's going to be a huge economy revamp once CW gets here and we have mercs actually separated from house players a bit

[Khobai]

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For a planetary assault... maybe. But for a mere 15 minute fight... Not needed at all.

Of course. Im not advocating getting rid of the current "hardcore" gamemodes. Simply adding on respawn game modes in addition to the current ones. Im all for people playing whatever gamemode they want.

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It's not respawn because you aren't coming back in the exact same mech

It is still respawn. Its actually similar to other games like team fortress 2 that let you change classes in between respawns.

[Sandpit]

Khobai, on 07 January 2014 - 09:11 AM, said:

Of course. Im not advocating getting rid of the current "hardcore" gamemodes. Simply adding on respawn game modes in addition to the current ones. Im all for people playing whatever gamemode they want.




It is still respawn. Its actually similar to other games like team fortress 2 that let you change classes in between respawns.

We're just arguing over definitions at this point. You call it respawn and a good chunk of the community just isn't going to agree with you because they won't accept the definition.
If you call it drop ship mode players will pat you on the back and say good idea lol

I understand what you mean but the "R" word just isn't going to garner near as much support

[Almond Brown]

Varent, on 03 January 2014 - 09:31 AM, said:

Depends if you want to end it or 'limit' it.

Given that BOTH attempts to "limit" it failed (shake and weapon changes), it seems time to just "remove" the ability. It does not add anything special to the game, except for those few Mechs that can mount JJ's. It is those few Mechs that feed the Meta as well. Beneficial movement over terrain is enough.

[Khobai]

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I understand what you mean but the "R" word just isn't going to garner near as much support

Which is why the distinction needs to be made. Respawn is not a bad thing. Having respawn in a game does not devolve it into CoD. Respawn can be tastefully integrated into a game in a way that doesnt detract from the gameplay.

[Almond Brown]

Joseph Mallan, on 03 January 2014 - 10:19 AM, said:

I could care less. I just mutter PULL every time I see a Mech pop up!

Or take the full burst from a spot on the battlefield that no Mech should be able to shoot from, and then instantly disappear, without having to actually show themselves so that at least someone could readily identify their location.

Other than that, Pop tarts are fine, I guess.

[Sandpit]

Khobai, on 07 January 2014 - 09:16 AM, said:

Which is why the distinction needs to be made. Respawn is not a bad thing. Having respawn in a game does not devolve it into CoD. Respawn can be tastefully integrated into a game in a way that doesnt detract from the gameplay.

But the fact that you keep using the "R" word even though you KNOW it's just going to be railed against by a good chunk of the population instead of just using the drop ship mode example just makes no sense to me. Plus having to explain what you mean by respawn. Most are going to argue until their blue in the face against the respawn definition. I happen to agree with them, I'm just trying to explain how you would actually garner some support for your idea as opposed to having to argue it every time you use the word respawn.

Almond Brown, on 07 January 2014 - 09:19 AM, said:

Or take the full burst from a spot on the battlefield that no Mech should be able to shoot from, and then instantly disappear, without having to actually show themselves so that at least someone could readily identify their location.

Other than that, Pop tarts are fine, I guess.

I STILL have no problem with poptarts and don't see what the fuss is about. They jump up I shoot them, they fall down I shoot them. They jump up they can't shoot me, they fall down and have to aim in freefall while I'm moving to hit me with a hit or miss weapon usually.

[Joseph Mallan]

Sandpit, on 07 January 2014 - 09:09 AM, said:

I agree, however, we already know dropship costs for merc units. That's the bonus to being a faction player as opposed to mercs at this point from what I understand. House players don't have to worry about that cost because it's absorbed by the house. mercs pay for it out of pocket.

This is one of the reasons I don't think "economy needs a buff" arguments are relevant at the moment. I think there's going to be a huge economy revamp once CW gets here and we have mercs actually separated from house players a bit

This makes sense though. A whole COMMAND uses to get to a mission. We are talking about bringing 1 overlord for free... if every player brings 4 mechs each.

[Dock Steward]

Sandpit, on 07 January 2014 - 09:05 AM, said:

That's a big IF though good sir. Again I just don't see front loaded damage as the culprit.
I'd MUCH rather see range reduced to start with and see what happens with that.
As it is now you can take an AC20 and essentially have An AC20 for short range, AC 10 for medium range, AC5 for long range, and AC 2 for extreme range.
Other than speed of projectile you essentially have every caliber AC in one with the way ranges work now

This is why I think an Ammo Nerf could do the trick. If a ton of AC/20 ammo only gave you 4 shots, let's say, and your Atlas was already packing 4 tons of ammo and you were used to that 28 shots it gave you, then you would want to find 3 more tons in your build so that you could take 7 total tons of AC/20 ammo to even it out after the nerf.

Well, where is that 3 tons going to come from? Okay, no brainer, drop one of those SRM6's you hardly use. But on that Shadowhawk that sports an AC/20, 3 tons is going to be a bit harder to find. That's too much tonnage to drop from armor, and a 3 ton lighter engine is a pretty significant speed drop. Some of those Shawk pilots are going to say scr*w it and mount an AC/10 instead (with maybe an ammo nerf from 15 to 12 rounds per ton).

What have we accomplished? In the case of a single Shawk, we've taken 10 points of pin-point damage per shot off the field. We've also made Ac/20 ammo a little more precious. Now people might be more careful with what shots they take. Don't want to waste ammo, maybe don't fire beyond optimal range as much because it isn't worth spending that ammo on shots that won't do full damage.

I don't want to sound defensive because I am championing this idea, but I don't think we should gloss right over it without fulling exploring the worthwhile ramifications.

Edited by Dock Steward, 07 January 2014 - 09:28 AM.

[Almond Brown]

Nik Van Rhijn, on 03 January 2014 - 11:16 AM, said:

If PGI really wanted to do something (which they don't appear to) they could always just drop ACs range down to 2X and see what happens.
As for poptarting, its all part of the bad implementation of JJs. 1 should not have such a great effect and a large number (5 or more) should have a greater effect. I find them more useful in a medium for jump brawling/avoidance.

And if they turned off shooting with Jets engaged, those Assault Mechs that hop all over kingdom come blasting you from the air would not get both benefits, Jump shooting and the elevated damage modifier that seem to come with being a bleeding Ballerina on steroids.

[WarHippy]

Sandpit, on 07 January 2014 - 09:00 AM, said:

It's not respawn because you aren't coming back in the exact same mech and loadout unless you're mr. money pants (which I'm sure this will happen but it won't be the norm) and have 4 of the exact same mech and loadout in your dropship

While I'm not a fan of tonnage limits a dropship mode would be a great place for that. You can bring up to four mechs to use, but have a limit on the tonnage available to you. With that you can still play in your assault mechs if that is what you prefer, but you are limited in the number of times you can relaunch that game.

As for the topic at hand I'm not sure burst is the way to go, but I don't think it would bother me. However, sandpits post about range of the ballistic weapons does ring true with me, and I would like to see a change in how that works.

[Sandpit]

Joseph Mallan, on 07 January 2014 - 09:24 AM, said:

This makes sense though. A whole COMMAND uses to get to a mission. We are talking about bringing 1 overlord for free... if every player brings 4 mechs each.

yup and from what i've seen and read it looks like that is where things are headed. I hate to say it but soon™

[Joseph Mallan]

Khobai, on 07 January 2014 - 09:11 AM, said:

Of course. Im not advocating getting rid of the current "hardcore" gamemodes. Simply adding on respawn game modes in addition to the current ones. Im all for people playing whatever gamemode they want.

Yes but we saw how 3pV was handles. This could end up he same way. Someone with 4 Mechs dropping against folks bringing one for a more immersive feel. We don't need more seats to put our butts in when we get killed. Under the best of conditions I could do a 4 minute mile.

Also the games I do respawn in, my enemy respawn back as well (PvE) SO I am starting all over again. in war(combat) victory is won through attrition. How can I claim victory if my enemy keeps getting back up?

On a ful scale assault I can understand this but on raiding missions I call BS. On Escort Missions I call BS. Most fights in Canon were Company on Company, with a lance as reserves... maybe.

[Almond Brown]

Joseph Mallan, on 03 January 2014 - 12:04 PM, said:

I just hope they don't get it. I like my ACs being thumpin' damage.

It would seem impractical to stream out 20 points anyways. To assure you get your 20, the spacing would have to so tight, that it would be moot. 4 x 5 in .025 someone suggested? Really, 2/100's of a second between first and last projectile arriving on target?

Not sure how fast a Mech would have to be running to not get them all on one panel, but I would guess that most Heavies and Assaults would never reach that speed.

As noted before. The AC2 already has a .52 second spread. The AC5 does 5 damage every 1.5s. The AC10 every 2.5s. Weapon stacking is the issue here. If you ride can't handle 2, 5 or 10 damage while you do nothing to mitigate it, well who is truly to blame?

P.S. I left out the AC20 as it has short range or can be used as a very heavy, slot intensive AC10.... Try and stay away from the AC20 Mechs.

[Noesis]

http://mwomercs.com/game/patch-notes

Weapon Tuning:

- AC/20 - Projectile speed decreased from 900m/s to 650m/s (250m/s decrease)
- AC/10 - Projectile speed decreased from 1100m/s to 950m/s (150m/s decrease)

Tweaks inbound in todays patch.

Nice one PGI.

Edited by Noesis, 07 January 2014 - 09:49 AM.

[Sandpit]

Noesis, on 07 January 2014 - 09:48 AM, said:

http://mwomercs.com/game/patch-notes

Weapon Tuning:

- AC/20 - Projectile speed decreased from 900m/s to 650m/s (250m/s decrease)
- AC/10 - Projectile speed decreased from 1100m/s to 950m/s (150m/s decrease)

Tweaks inbound in todays patch.

Nice one PGI.

may have to try out that cicada...

[Almond Brown]

Noesis, on 03 January 2014 - 11:51 PM, said:

Hot chocolate then please.

It has a very short range and may require extra Heat Sinks due to added GH.

[Khobai]

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But the fact that you keep using the "R" word even though you KNOW it's just going to be railed against by a good chunk of the population instead of just using the drop ship mode example just makes no sense to me

Dropship mode is respawning. Regardless of how you want to sugar coat it by calling it something else.

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AC/20 - Projectile speed decreased from 900m/s to 650m/s (250m/s decrease)

Makes sense. The AC/20, dual PPC build was too easy mode for doing 40 damage to one location. This should help split up the damage.

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AC/10 - Projectile speed decreased from 1100m/s to 950m/s (150m/s decrease)

Why PGI Why?

[Joseph Mallan]

Khobai, on 07 January 2014 - 10:18 AM, said:

Makes sense. The AC/20, dual PPC build was too easy mode for doing 40 damage to one location. This should help split up the damage.

Yet the twin AC20 can still dish it... Stupid mechanics strike again. We need to stop deciding weapons by committee.

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 07 January 2014 - 10:24 AM.