157 replies to this topic

[Zerberus]

Sandpit, on 25 December 2013 - 12:26 PM, said:

neither. again, premades have little to nothing to do with your team getting stomped

100% this. Hell, half the time people that complain ingame about getting stomped by an evil premade I`m IN a premade on their losing team (and we`re usually talking about what exactly went wrong so as to not make the same mistake again later).

The other half of teh complaints is when I win in the same group.

So what exactly does that say other than "It`s all in your head"?

Edited by Zerberus, 28 December 2013 - 08:52 AM.

[Lykaon]

Zerberus, on 28 December 2013 - 08:51 AM, said:

100% this. Hell, half the time people that complain ingame about getting stomped by an evil premade I`m IN a premade on their losing team (and we`re usually talking about what exactly went wrong so as to not make the same mistake again later).

The other half of teh complaints is when I win in the same group.

So what exactly does that say other than "It`s all in your head"?

The reason for the opinion that premades are the cause of all woes is the players who post this retoric have never seen the other side of the coin.They only pug they even frequently preface their post with this as some sort of credentials.

" I only ever Pug" or the like is in so many posts of that nature that I find it comical.

How can anyone have an informed opinion on a subject that they have only experienced from a very limited perspective?


I can say based on an opinion drawn from playing as a premade and as a puggie that the real problem with premades is they can't communicate with 2/3rds of their own team.

When I'm in a premade I lack the ability to say to puggies what I see or what needs to be done or even tell a puggies team mate that help is coming run towards our premade not deeper toward death.

When I pug I can't tell any of my team what I see what may need doing or where the enemy is (I frequently play light as a pug)

These are my problems.I lack the tools to create an effective team so I am forced to be satified with 1/3rd of my team being in the know and 2/3rds having to guess.

[Mainhunter]

Why arguing if it's good or not, just give us the opportunity to select PUG's only servers. Let the players decide how to play the game.

[Iskareot]

Have done both... please do not even say that pugging is the same as premade drops.

..... It's a joke with good premade compared to a pug wit no clue of a strat... I just hope people know we need a choice... not to take away from either aspect of the game.

[xMEPHISTOx]

Yeah lets further separate the player base (sarcasm btw).
The searches for matches are long enough as it is. With increased segregation of the playerbase the longer the search for matches and higher chance of failed searches. It is already being split between 3 game modes as it is.
The only separation I tend to agree with is the new players should be in matches with one another so as to keep the more experienced players playing with one another. Every time I see a trial mech on my team I know I have a double digit damage mech handicapping the team, not that I have anything against new players (quite the opposite) but I don't need first day players on my team when the other team has notable players that are grouped with other notable players.

[MischiefSC]

1453 R, on 26 December 2013 - 04:38 AM, said:

Yuk yuk yuk.

Yeah, I know. To anyone currently in/satisfied with a player group, I sound like a raving lunatic. Here's the deal, BillyBob SC - I just got back to this game after taking...how long's it been since Phoenix released? Basically, that plus an extra couple three weeks off the game because I couldn't deal with Piranha anymore. They've made strides, and so I'm back, but tell me...do you know of one single player group that would've put up with most of a quarter's sabbatical?

Do you know of one single player group that'd put up with a guy whose pre-Phoenix 'Mech list looked like an illustrated guide on How Not to be a Successful Meta-Chasing C-Bill Farmer in MWO? (For the curious: Dragons, Cicadas, Trebs, a brief run on Victors, and only just now a third Jenner/awkwardly-shaped Javelin. In that order. As well as the usual drip-and-drab one-offs for the sake of trying something new. Not a single Centurion, Cataphract or Stalker in the entire list. Except Yen-Lo-Wang, who doesn't count anyways.)

Do you know of one single player group that'd put up with me taking two weeks off because they released a particularly juicy Living Story update over in Guild Wars 2 and I wanted to focus on that in my scant spare gaming time rather than pound out my required two hours daily grind time in MWO?

I play what I want, I play when I want, and I stop playing when I want, as well. I'm hardly alone in that behavior, but it's also behavior that is utterly and entirely incompatible with the player groups that formed up here in MWO. Telling me that all my problems with the game would be solved if I just stopped being an antisocial cheesegrater and joined a group already is basically telling me to stop playing what/when I want and to conform to some powermongering {Richard Cameron}'s schedules and spreadsheets, playing what he thinks is the most effective and efficient way to scam the meta and doing it on a regular schedule.

Excuse me, I have a job already. I am hardly about to take on a second one, especially one where the boss expects me to pay him.

EDIT: Somebody's been having fun with the cuss filters. Bravo, Piranha. Bravo.

Let me make this clear -

I'm 100% on board with you.

There are groups of cool people out there. However, I've worked on, deved for, admined on and played in a {Scrap} ton of MMOs and multiplayer games over the years. I just don't have the energy for it anymore. My wife is a lot sexier and rewards my time and attention a lot better. I don't like feeling obligated to hang out or play on a schedule. Thus I don't join orgs online anymore. I wouldn't be a good addition for them and knowing that doesn't make me happy.

So I pug and drop with friends when I'm on. I'm a long way from antisocial - I play tabletop gaming and have a very social job. Maybe that has something to do with why I just don't have the energy after work to keep a social network up.

In any case, more power to you. There is never any reason to feel pressured to join a group in a game, anyone who wants to do so is expressing their own insecurities, that's not your problem it's theirs.

[Revorn]

Pug only vs Pug only Mode.

[Sandpit]

Revorn, on 31 December 2013 - 03:03 PM, said:

Pug only vs Pug only Mode.

Will not solve the issue

[3endless8oogie]

Revorn, on 31 December 2013 - 03:03 PM, said:

Pug only vs Pug only Mode.

[Nick Makiaveli]

Jack of Shades, on 24 December 2013 - 11:31 AM, said:

It is essentially a TEAM game.

Means : team work is paramount. And I think this is good. BUT: in the current state of game's interface there is totally NOT ENOUGH tools to organize the team, the squad work.

A single, non-coordinated warrior in the field is a "free kill" or at least an easy target. Okay, one might say "join the pre-made groups".

But this requires a lot of hassle to do OUTSIDE of the game. Not good.

Really? A lot of hassle? Installing TS, finding a server (there are lots listed in New Player Help, as well as all the merc units recruiting), that's a lot of hassle?

Son if that's a lot of work for you, you have a much easier life than I do.

Jack of Shades, on 24 December 2013 - 11:31 AM, said:

In short: we need a much more advanced "lobby" or "arrangement screen" before the action, and secondly - the balancing has to take into account the teams' total of unlocks and upgrades ( "experience" and "monetary values" of participating mechs)
.

Easy, download TS, join a serious group and done. Seriously, it's not rocket surgery. The DHB, for example, not only do we have a forum but we use the TS server as a way to organize before a drop, when we are just dropping for fun.

Now, if you do some research on CW you will find out that lobbies, tonnage limits, the ability to bring multiple mechs etc are all planned.

[Mudhutwarrior]

No matter how many threads the same 30 or so who will tell you any excuse to keep their advantage and ready meat on the table.

Anyone with any common sense knows command and control, quick and accurate intell and squad familiarity rules the battle field. any battlefield in human history.

Except here from these experts of tabletop and lore.

Fact is premades and Voice comms have every advantage. It cannot be denied except by those trying to sell Bernie Madooff securities to the unsuspecting.

They also want one size fits all for gameplay. Maybe they all live in the exact same houses and watch the same TV shows. Would not doubt it from months of hearing the same tired excuses and outright falsehoods they wish to pedal.

Common sense also dictates those at the top of the heap will do or say anything to keep that advantage.

Re read what they have said here with all that in mind.

Edited by Mudhutwarrior, 01 January 2014 - 06:06 PM.

[Sandpit]

Mudhutwarrior, on 01 January 2014 - 06:05 PM, said:

No matter how many threads the same 30 or so who will tell you any excuse to keep their advantage and ready meat on the table.

Anyone with any common sense knows command and control, quick and accurate intell and squad familiarity rules the battle field. any battlefield in human history.

Except here from these experts of tabletop and lore.

Fact is premades and Voice comms have every advantage. It cannot be denied except by those trying to sell Bernie Madooff securities to the unsuspecting.

They also want one size fits all for gameplay. Maybe they all live in the exact same houses and watch the same TV shows. Would not doubt it from months of hearing the same tired excuses and outright falsehoods they wish to pedal.

Common sense also dictates those at the top of the heap will do or say anything to keep that advantage.

Re read what they have said here with all that in mind.

Read your post then look up irony
You post nothing but how evil premades are
You don't even acknowledge when those "evil" premades agree with your suggestions on integrated voip.
Learn to contribute something other than "I hate premades, they are the reason I lose" or just **** already

As many have already stated in this thread, separate queues aren't practical or feasible
Put new players into their own queues until they graduate from cadet status
Let vets apply for training positions to help teach new players
Implementation of in game voip is a necessity
Use these as tools to help new players learn the intricate nature of the game
This will actually get at the underlying issue and help mitigate the whole stomp scenario

[Mycrus]

Oh yummy... Was it announced that we can 2-12 soon™?

Moar meat for my table...

Btw, I've pugged, premade, 12'd and I always have had a 1WLR and 1KDR that is across playing all weight classes..

Add to that joystick play..

The only constant in all my matches is me.

I am the reason I win or I lose..

Please write this in a sticky note and display it promptly on your gaming rig...

[lsp]

Dock Steward, on 24 December 2013 - 11:57 AM, said:

UI 2.0 is coming. With it, and shortly after it's release, the ability to organize a team pre-game will change drastically. If you would like more information, please see any Dev thread from the past three months.

Coming at the end of next year, what a joke.

[Joseph Mallan]

Mycrus, on 01 January 2014 - 08:59 PM, said:

Oh yummy... Was it announced that we can 2-12 soon™?

Moar meat for my table...

Btw, I've pugged, premade, 12'd and I always have had a 1WLR and 1KDR that is across playing all weight classes..

Add to that joystick play..

The only constant in all my matches is me.

I am the reason I win or I lose..

Please write this in a sticky note and display it promptly on your gaming rig...

You had me till the end Sir. You are 1/12 the reason your TEAM wins. Now how well you perform can help your team I admit, But unless you kill 12 mechs every game, you only influence a victory.

Mudhutwarrior, on 01 January 2014 - 06:05 PM, said:

No matter how many threads the same 30 or so who will tell you any excuse to keep their advantage and ready meat on the table.

Anyone with any common sense knows command and control, quick and accurate intell and squad familiarity rules the battle field. any battlefield in human history.

Except here from these experts of tabletop and lore.

Fact is premades and Voice comms have every advantage. It cannot be denied except by those trying to sell Bernie Madooff securities to the unsuspecting.

They also want one size fits all for gameplay. Maybe they all live in the exact same houses and watch the same TV shows. Would not doubt it from months of hearing the same tired excuses and outright falsehoods they wish to pedal.

Common sense also dictates those at the top of the heap will do or say anything to keep that advantage.

Re read what they have said here with all that in mind.

30 of us vs 25 of you... Guess we are better organized.

[Ransack]

1453 R, on 26 December 2013 - 04:38 AM, said:

Yuk yuk yuk.

Yeah, I know. To anyone currently in/satisfied with a player group, I sound like a raving lunatic. Here's the deal, BillyBob SC - I just got back to this game after taking...how long's it been since Phoenix released? Basically, that plus an extra couple three weeks off the game because I couldn't deal with Piranha anymore. They've made strides, and so I'm back, but tell me...do you know of one single player group that would've put up with most of a quarter's sabbatical?

Do you know of one single player group that'd put up with a guy whose pre-Phoenix 'Mech list looked like an illustrated guide on How Not to be a Successful Meta-Chasing C-Bill Farmer in MWO? (For the curious: Dragons, Cicadas, Trebs, a brief run on Victors, and only just now a third Jenner/awkwardly-shaped Javelin. In that order. As well as the usual drip-and-drab one-offs for the sake of trying something new. Not a single Centurion, Cataphract or Stalker in the entire list. Except Yen-Lo-Wang, who doesn't count anyways.)

Do you know of one single player group that'd put up with me taking two weeks off because they released a particularly juicy Living Story update over in Guild Wars 2 and I wanted to focus on that in my scant spare gaming time rather than pound out my required two hours daily grind time in MWO?

I play what I want, I play when I want, and I stop playing when I want, as well. I'm hardly alone in that behavior, but it's also behavior that is utterly and entirely incompatible with the player groups that formed up here in MWO. Telling me that all my problems with the game would be solved if I just stopped being an antisocial cheesegrater and joined a group already is basically telling me to stop playing what/when I want and to conform to some powermongering {Richard Cameron}'s schedules and spreadsheets, playing what he thinks is the most effective and efficient way to scam the meta and doing it on a regular schedule.

Excuse me, I have a job already. I am hardly about to take on a second one, especially one where the boss expects me to pay him.

EDIT: Somebody's been having fun with the cuss filters. Bravo, Piranha. Bravo.

I know of one such unit. Click My sig. We have casuals, we have hardcore gamers, we have people on sabbatical. There's really not much going on in this game for someone to be a maniacal spreadsheet Cameron yet.Don't want to be in the competitive group that's fine. want to pug, that's fine. want to group up with other groups on the hub, that's fine too. My unit is about people. Don't paint all groups with the same brush.

As for the topic, Premades lose to PuGs quite often. Hell that team that you were on that got rolled most likely had a four man too. I've Pugged and beaten Premades. I've been in premades and gotten rolled by PuGs.

[Triordinant]

The only way to settle once and for all whether having a premade-free, PUG-only queue is both useful and feasible is to try it out NOW. We have nothing to lose and possibly everything to gain by doing so. What's the holdup? Who's afraid of the PUG-only queue?

[Sandpit]

Triordinant, on 02 January 2014 - 07:44 AM, said:

The only way to settle once and for all whether having a premade-free, PUG-only queue is both useful and feasible is to try it out NOW. We have nothing to lose and possibly everything to gain by doing so. What's the holdup? Who's afraid of the PUG-only queue?

Lol
Because maybe just maybe the devs know more than you do?
Maybe just maybe the devs who have the factual data and exact numbers on everything already know?

[Bhael Fire]

Sandpit, on 31 December 2013 - 03:18 PM, said:

Will not solve the issue

A solo-only queue would indeed solve a lot of the QQ about premade stomps.

Why?

1. More granularity when matching players together (less disparity between Elo scores)
2. It's hard to complain about premade stomps when there are no premades

[Sandpit]

Bhael Fire, on 02 January 2014 - 12:28 PM, said:

A solo-only queue would indeed solve a lot of the QQ about premade stomps.

Why?

1. More granularity when matching players together (less disparity between Elo scores)
2. It's hard to complain about premade stomps when there are no premades

It stops the complaining not the stomps because premades aren't the underlying problem