34 replies to this topic

[Abrahms]

I was dumb and bought a pack for this game at release. Why? I was always a fan of mechwarriors.

However I havent patched or played the game in months; Why? The balance sucks (I CAN READ PATCHNOTES from the website, do not tell me Im out of the loop). The developers have no clue what theyre doing. Heck, even their freedback thread for clans... the first 10 messages are from highly involved players telling the developers how much they fail.

I was around in early Beta, constantly posting threads displaying how wrong their math was, and eventually gave up. It didnt matter that heat was totally broken and that the weapon systems were a total joke. It didnt matter that some weapons were significantly better per ton because they entirely failed to use highschool math.

Who would of thought that using tabletop numbers for weight and weapon heat wouldnt work when you tripled rate of fire? That suddenly increased each weapons heatsink weight to 3x, meaning that a weapon that needed 2 heatsinks needed 6 (+4) and one that needed 7 was now 21 (+14). Common sense tells you that multiplying this number would break things! Why? Some weapons tonnage to damage ratios were more heatsink orientated than others (lasers anyone?).

But nope, games still broken.

So at least the Timberwolf is $55. I can spend 100% of that $ on a single mech. Hopefully I can be an overpowered pay 2 win stompy robot monster for a few weeks, and then uninstall the game entirely.

I think my $60 investment in BF4, even with all its bugs, was a much better investment

Advice? never, ever, EVER touch another game with pay 2 win/fail model. I tried planetside 2 beta... but saw it was a pay 2 win grind fest and havent touched it with a 10 foot pole.

Now, I dont want to sound too nasty. I know creating content can be very hard. But when you see very easy things fail, $500 money grabs for a broken game, and developers go back on promises (lie) it doesnt leave a good impression. Add in a large, talented, and passionate mechwarrior fanbase, and there are few excuses.

Edited by Abrahms, 03 January 2014 - 04:04 PM.

[FupDup]

Timber Wolf Advantages:

• Lightweight + compact + powerful (that part will be nerfed) Clan technology
  
• Huge engine means speed and agility will be absurdly high for a mech of its size
  
• Can swap hardpoints between variants if you're the type who doesn't like to use the same loadout twice
  
• Most iconic mech EVAR

Timber Wolf Disadvantages:

• Might get bad hitboxes (dem ears, dat cockpit, dat CT)
  
• Cannot redistribute armor (too much on legs, CT is 2 points short of MWO's maximum)
  
• Cannot change engine (375 is probably way too high for a heavy)
  
• Cannot put ammo in the head or legs due to Endo and Ferro slots
  
• Clan weapons are going to get nerfed
  
• Clan energy weapons in particular are going to be smacked down HARD by the ghost-heat bat
  
• It isn't a Victor or Highlander

Compared to the other Clan mechs it will probably turn out to be one of the better ones, but I find it very unlikely that any of them will stand a chance against our current customized IS powerhouses. Min-max is simply too powerful for stock "core" parts to compete with unless the weaponry is blatantly broken, but we know that PGI is going to be un-breaking the TT stats (or at least trying to)...

Edited by FupDup, 26 December 2013 - 08:49 PM.

[Screech]

Abrahms, on 26 December 2013 - 07:54 PM, said:

I think my $60 investment in BF4, even with all its bugs, was a much better investment

I thought the investors were suing EA over how bug ridden and ****** B4 was. And I mean true investors not $60 corporate raiders we hear from so often. But I am sure it is still great, hope you have fun over there.

[Abrahms]

Screech, on 26 December 2013 - 08:22 PM, said:

I thought the investors were suing EA over how bug ridden and ****** B4 was. And I mean true investors not $60 corporate raiders we hear from so often. But I am sure it is still great, hope you have fun over there.

actually, my game works great

a lot of the crashing issues were fixed via patches that came fairly quick

it still isnt perfect, and vehicle balance is pretty bad, but overall frostbit 2.5 (cough 3) is absolutely gorgeous and there is a ton of content

very fun to play in a squad with friends

Edited by Abrahms, 26 December 2013 - 09:02 PM.

[xe N on]

Yeah, clan weapons are going to be nerfed ... but will still be much lighter then IS tech. I see a rain of Clan-LRMs by stacking 6 Clan-LRM 20 or more ... (30 tons).

Hope Clan-weapons will be available for IS too, my Catapults will cheer.

[Aim64C]

xe N on, on 26 December 2013 - 09:21 PM, said:

Yeah, clan weapons are going to be nerfed ... but will still be much lighter then IS tech. I see a rain of Clan-LRMs by stacking 6 Clan-LRM 20 or more ... (30 tons).

Hope Clan-weapons will be available for IS too, my Catapults will cheer.

LRMs in their current state are unplayable.

Well - maybe if you're throwing nearly a ton of missiles into the air with every volley - but even then, only half of your salvo registers as doing damage out of the 2/3s that actually make contact with the target.

'Back in the day' - you could play a Catapult "Clanner Style" - lock them up at range to hammer them with missiles then exploit particularly weak points with a battery of laser fire as you close.

I -loved- killing LRM "boats" in my C1. Stalker and Awesome pilots would spit nails at me as I used the legs my mech was equipped with to actually cover ground - dodging the majority of their 60-missile salvos while pretty much every missile of my 30-missile volley would hammer them. Then I'd clip torso sections or burn through their core with four medium pulse lasers.

It was a kitty to be feared. Though I did have fun with my C4 - it was always a little too dependent on missiles. Though there were a few times I virtually killed an entire team with it (because they thought marching, quite literally, single-file down the river toward the catapult in the bay was a good idea... I guess they were feeling confident because they slaughtered the bejesus out of my team, spare for a couple ravens I had been packing with).

Those days are over. LRMs are 'support' weapons - which means they need to be a long range sandblaster that isn't worth taking into combat unless your entire team packs them in force. Then your entire team is incredibly effective at taking out one of the twelve targets the enemy has been so gracious to provide them with.

I suppose someone should inform the Joint Chiefs what support weapons are. They didn't get PGI's memo.

[Ryvucz]

There will always be tweaks, it's a living, breathing consume your soul game.

A lot has changed, you may view the latest as bad or good.

Either way, change will come. To devour your soul

[Dymlos2003]

Abrahms, on 26 December 2013 - 07:54 PM, said:

However I havent patched or played the game in months; Why? The balance sucks.

And that's where I stopped reading. The game is pretty balanced now unless you're one of the players that cry foul whenever something happens with the game. The game will never be balanced to them.

[MischiefSC]

Ask the Locust/Tbolt/Battlemaster, or the Pretty Baby or the Awesome, etc. etc. etc.

No. It'll probably be garbage, specifically because so many people will get one and it'll be available for cash first - no, it'll be trash. Expect it to be like a Dragon but with less engine/armor/component flexibility. Probably be almost exclusively energy builds and no viable room for DHS, even better you'll be stuck with an XL375 meaning you'll have 11 less tons than my Orion, which will have more flexibility for mixing AC/laser/missile weapons for heat control.

You should also expect terrible hitboxes to go with that guaranteed XL - that nice big fat perpetual missile pod on each torso, missiles or not, that will let me pop your torso out easily.

Oh, by the way? FF and Endo are permanent. While you may have some ballistic slots you'll never have room for an AC20. That and the built-in XL, remember? You'll never have the spaces for it. But your ERMLs will be great! Hope that's all you ever wanted to be able to use competitively.

My estimate is - perpetually inferior to my Orion, which will be more flexible and carry a better load-out.

[Karazyr]

It has guns, it clearly will be OP, because y'know if it kills me its OP...

i think it will be a *********** so it wont really become clear till 1-2 months after the launch.

[Abrahms]

Aim64C, on 26 December 2013 - 09:58 PM, said:

LRMs in their current state are unplayable.

Well - maybe if you're throwing nearly a ton of missiles into the air with every volley - but even then, only half of your salvo registers as doing damage out of the 2/3s that actually make contact with the target.

'Back in the day' - you could play a Catapult "Clanner Style" - lock them up at range to hammer them with missiles then exploit particularly weak points with a battery of laser fire as you close.

I -loved- killing LRM "boats" in my C1. Stalker and Awesome pilots would spit nails at me as I used the legs my mech was equipped with to actually cover ground - dodging the majority of their 60-missile salvos while pretty much every missile of my 30-missile volley would hammer them. Then I'd clip torso sections or burn through their core with four medium pulse lasers.

It was a kitty to be feared. Though I did have fun with my C4 - it was always a little too dependent on missiles. Though there were a few times I virtually killed an entire team with it (because they thought marching, quite literally, single-file down the river toward the catapult in the bay was a good idea... I guess they were feeling confident because they slaughtered the bejesus out of my team, spare for a couple ravens I had been packing with).

Those days are over. LRMs are 'support' weapons - which means they need to be a long range sandblaster that isn't worth taking into combat unless your entire team packs them in force. Then your entire team is incredibly effective at taking out one of the twelve targets the enemy has been so gracious to provide them with.

I suppose someone should inform the Joint Chiefs what support weapons are. They didn't get PGI's memo.

Well my Atlas LRM boat in earlier BETA was cheese easy lock on auto 2 shot kill mode

So between then and now, now is better for the game overall

dymlos2003, on 26 December 2013 - 10:19 PM, said:

And that's where I stopped reading. The game is pretty balanced now unless you're one of the players that cry foul whenever something happens with the game. The game will never be balanced to them.

not much has changed, and I can read patch notes

if you cant consider that as a possibility, your closed mind will forever be closed

[Aim64C]

Abrahms, on 26 December 2013 - 11:13 PM, said:

Well my Atlas LRM boat in earlier BETA was cheese easy lock on auto 2 shot kill mode

So between then and now, now is better for the game overall

As compared to now, where I can put 3 AC5s on a ShadowHawk and run the rail on an entire team?

There have been several problems with LRMs over the months. For starters - their tracking of 'mechs is abhorrent. As I said - I could dodge almost entire salvos in my C1 while still maintaining an almost direct approach.

Second, the game has always used a fixed size cluster to missiles. This has massive implications for 'mechs of different sizes. A lot of medium mechs that are the size of assaults, in this day and age, would have their torsos removed by an LRM-80 barrage. Let alone an LRM-120. Assuming they were not under cover and standing still (since just about any medium mech can dance out of the way of LRMs). Other mechs with large hit-boxes for a particular torso section were absolutely ripped to shreds by LRM salvos. The Atlas, in particular, was a ripe target for coring by LRMs. Stalkers, on the other hand, had a relatively small center-torso, and were often easy to 'pogo-stick' in a C1 (you often had to - unless you wanted the other side of the mech to keep shooting at you while you tried to chew through the only torso section with armor left on it).

Third - time-to-target is anywhere from four to ten seconds. If you get hit with LRMs, you deserve it. The effectiveness of LRMs on the battlefield is less a function of the firing pilot and more a function of the targeted pilot.

Even back when LRMs were in their prime, before all of the insanity of 'splash damage', it took me longer to engage and kill a 'mech with them than it does for me to engage and kill a 'mech with a bank of lasers or pulse lasers.

The number of players who die in a match with less than a hundred damage dealt has, also, increased considerably. Two mechs laying down laser and autocannon fire will shred a 'mech before he has time to process what direction he's taking fire from.

The main reason people complained about LRMs was because a couple idiots would sit back in a Stalker and shoot 12 tons of ammo during the match for a mere 600 damage, each, with two kills. Damage ran higher back in those days - it wasn't unusual to see good Jenner pilots break 500, for whatever reason.

Those were usually my first targets in a C1. I could push a wide flank independent of my team and attack the chums sitting back. I'd draw and dodge their fire and kill them. It would throw their team off balance enough for it to work out in our favor most of the time - even if portions of their team were attentive enough to focus fire on me and take me out. That is what I did - when things stagnated, I'd push wide and force the enemy to mix it up. You had enough firepower in LRMs to make you worth paying attention to - but you still had to watch how much direct fire you exposed yourself to.

But - I digress. Entire classes of mechs are virtually unusable because they were based around missiles. SRMs suffer from the same hit detection issues as LRMs. Not to mention they require you to be closer.

So, I suppose the game is better on the whole for it.

[Abrahms]

Well, LRMs are better off being easy to avoid since theyre easy to apply.

I remember when games were 8 LRM boats, and theyd win every time... not fun at all.

Rather see PPCs and Gauss because you have to aim those. Auto-lock is too good when paired with the best dmg/tonnage weapons (like how lrms were).

Also the rock... I could either two shot you, or if you liked to move a lot I could just chain fire 2000+ missiles for eternity... and you were effectively removed from the game.

So yeah, LRMs may need tuning, but they should never return to what they were.

[3rdworld]

Probably wont have JJs. Not going to be very good.

I doubt they are going to keep the "can't change armor or engines" they talked about, in which case the Summoner will be better than the Timberwolf.

[Mister Blastman]

FupDup, on 26 December 2013 - 08:09 PM, said:

• Lightweight + compact + powerful (that part will be nerfed) Clan technology

Hah. I wish on the compact part. I bet the Madcat will be as big as an Atlas.

[3rdworld]

Mister Blastman, on 27 December 2013 - 06:15 AM, said:

Hah. I wish on the compact part. I bet the Madcat will be as big as an Atlas.

A catapult with large arms.....YAY!!!!

[Mister Blastman]

3rdworld, on 27 December 2013 - 06:18 AM, said:

A catapult with large arms.....YAY!!!!

Oh, the biggest, you bet!

They're like... clan Cudgels... That get shot off, with ease. Wait, that's a feature, it is! It'll be the Clan Trebuchet. :-|

[3rdworld]

Mister Blastman, on 27 December 2013 - 06:20 AM, said:

Oh, the biggest, you bet!

They're like... clan Cudgels... That get shot off, with ease. Wait, that's a feature, it is! It'll be the Clan Trebuchet. :-|

And they are conveniently below the torso so you can protect your legs....

[Khobai]

Quote

Lightweight + compact + powerful (that part will be nerfed) Clan technology

Doubt it. PGI has always wanted us to be able to play stock configurations. So you can count on the tonnage and crit slots of clan weapons not changing.

[Aim64C]

Abrahms, on 27 December 2013 - 02:50 AM, said:

Well, LRMs are better off being easy to avoid since theyre easy to apply.

I remember when games were 8 LRM boats, and theyd win every time... not fun at all.

Only against fools.

Quote

Rather see PPCs and Gauss because you have to aim those. Auto-lock is too good when paired with the best dmg/tonnage weapons (like how lrms were).

Auto-lock? Were you busy staving off the Liao Zombie Incursion of 3042 - and that's why we've never heard of it?

Quote

Also the rock... I could either two shot you, or if you liked to move a lot I could just chain fire 2000+ missiles for eternity... and you were effectively removed from the game.

There was only one point in time where you could "two-shot" anything with an LRM volley. That was when LRMs were given "splash damage" because the devs were talking some crazy talk about being useful against lights and causing damage to the legs.

Because of the way hit-detection in Cry-Engine works (or, rather, how they didn't re-code hit detection for LRMs - though I don't know if they have that level of access to the source - a real trouble with these 'out of the box' engines) - multiple sections of armor were receiving the same amount of damage from the same missile. This meant an LRM 20 could turn into something like an LRM-40-60, depending upon where missiles hit. This was particularly true of the torso sections.

Otherwise - even with the largest LRM volleys - it would have taken you roughly three salvos with artemis bonuses applying to drop the average heavy mech.

And, you really don't understand the concept of engaging a moving target. With a Catapult that moves 84 kph - you're not hitting much of anything. You're exactly the 'boat' I specialized at killing. You're chain-firing for 4 damage per chained volley on my right arm and leg while I'm dropping 50 points across your torso with each of my solid volleys. Then I drop 24 pinpoint into the section of my choosing every two seconds once I'm in your minimum range.

If you had a whole team focusing fire on me - you'd drop me, sure. Either way - you're doing exactly what I want you to - because I've alleviated the headache - even if only temporarily, of my 11 other team-mates.

Though you were also the type of LRM boat I'd watch on my own team run dry halfway through the match because he spent half of his LRMs into the damned ground.

Quote

So yeah, LRMs may need tuning, but they should never return to what they were.

Tuning? Try a complete overhaul.