73 replies to this topic

[Varik Ronain]

If you have streaks you have to get a lock in the first place. I have seen plenty of wolf packs with multiple ecm just tear streak cats apart. The fact you gripe about a "light" hunter is amusing! If you are tired of getting legged in a light grab a different mech for a little while. I myself fancy myself a cat pilot and love to boat LRMs and I dont gripe when I get mobbed by a light, I just get into my streak cat when I have had enough and kill as many lights as I can then go back to LRM boating. Everything has a counter and a lot of it is random luck of the drop, you never know what you are going to drop with.

[Nicholas Carlyle]

The problem in this game is that core mechanics a fubar.

LRM's are fubar.

ECM is fubar.

SRM's are fubar.

Overall hit detection is fubar.

Ghost heat is fubar.

Convergence is fubar.

Role Warfare is fubar.

You can't say Streak SRM's are broken because the game has no depth at all.

[NautilusCommand]

Nicholas Carlyle, on 29 December 2013 - 07:00 PM, said:

The problem in this game is that core mechanics a fubar.

LRM's are fubar.

ECM is fubar.

SRM's are fubar.

Overall hit detection is fubar.

Ghost heat is fubar.

Convergence is fubar.

Role Warfare is fubar.

You can't say Streak SRM's are broken because the game has no depth at all.

This may be true but that doesn't get it moving towards it not being fubar.
You can't just fix it, you fix little things at a time, or you scrap the whole thing and start over.
I'm with you on this, I think they don' goofed. The only logical thing to do is start over, yet making a big fuss about that on the forums will get you no where fast.

[Sephlock]

People who emphasize the "guaranteed hit" over and over really make me wonder.

For one thing, they are technically wrong- it is NOT a guaranteed hit, although it is quite probable that your missiles will hit under optimal circumstances, they can and do miss/get shot down by AMS.

For another, is their aim that bad?

I mean, at long range, sure. You can miss with gauss or PPCs at extreme long range.... but otherwise, you really shouldn't be missing, especially not at SSRM range (or at the range at which you should be using LRMs, for that matter).

[Nicholas Carlyle]

NautilusCommand, on 29 December 2013 - 07:19 PM, said:

This may be true but that doesn't get it moving towards it not being fubar.
You can't just fix it, you fix little things at a time, or you scrap the whole thing and start over.
I'm with you on this, I think they don' goofed. The only logical thing to do is start over, yet making a big fuss about that on the forums will get you no where fast.

The problem is...lets say you lower the damage on Streaks...then they fix SRM's. Suddenly no one EVER uses streak's, because SRM's suddenly register damage.

Did we really fix anything in that situation? Nope.

And in addition to that, it takes PGI an UNGODLY amount of time to do weapon changes/fixes (for no apparent reason).

And until we fix the relationship between ECM and missiles in this game, they are nigh impossible to balance as is.

The whole thing is a cluster of epic proportions. But we are once again at a point where hit registration HAS to be fixed before balancing can even start to happen.

We keep regressing.

Sephlock, on 29 December 2013 - 07:23 PM, said:

People who emphasize the "guaranteed hit" over and over really make me wonder.

For one thing, they are technically wrong- it is NOT a guaranteed hit, although it is quite probable that your missiles will hit under optimal circumstances, they can and do miss/get shot down by AMS.

For another, is their aim that bad?

I mean, at long range, sure. You can miss with gauss or PPCs at extreme long range.... but otherwise, you really shouldn't be missing, especially not at SSRM range (or at the range at which you should be using LRMs, for that matter).

The problem is SRM's are broken.

So if you want short range missiles, streaks are it.

[anonymous161]

Enough with the whole stupid NERF NERF NERF rages seriously enough of the weapons have been changed for the worse in a lot of cases at this point stop messing too much with the weapons instead fix the hit detection!

[xMEPHISTOx]

I play all different weight class mechs and do not feel they (ssrms) are to powerful to any of them, I think they are just fine where they are at the present time.

Alistair Winter, on 29 December 2013 - 05:48 PM, said:

Medium mechs with 4 SSRMs and some sort of large energy / ballistic weapon regularly end up doing top damage on their team. My own Griffins included.

If it were focused damage I would agree. However it is spread out all over the place and not concentrated to any specific area. The damage output is a deceiving number in the case of streaks. I say this being on both sides of them in a variety of mechs and weight classes.

NRP, on 29 December 2013 - 06:01 PM, said:

Streaks already got nerfed.

Quit whining.

^^^Agreed.

Dock Steward, on 29 December 2013 - 06:49 PM, said:

So you want to buff them?

That would be equally bad as nerfing them. They are fine.

Edited by xMEPHISTOx, 29 December 2013 - 07:50 PM.

[Thorqemada]

Streaks are already almost useless, a mere supplemental weapon that may scare inexperienced Light Pilots.
More nerfs and People will stop using them and we get even more High Damage Pinpoint Meta than now.

Edited by Thorqemada, 29 December 2013 - 07:54 PM.

[dario03]

I would prefer a complete redo on how they work but dropping their damage to 2.0 would be ok I guess. Also buff the srm to 2.5.

[xMEPHISTOx]

dario03, on 29 December 2013 - 08:02 PM, said:

I would prefer a complete redo on how they work but dropping their damage to 2.0 would be ok I guess. Also buff the srm to 2.5.

Once ssrm4's and 6's are available that may be something to look at, but as it is with now just ssrm2's I don't see nerfing the damage as a good thing.
As far as the SRM...they could use some attention, probably the only weapon imo that really does need to be looked at.

[Wraith 1]

I feel that SSRMs are a bit too useful for the tonnage when compared to other missiles. You see them mounted on everything from Locusts to Atlai, the former of which have more than enough tonnage to mount heavier missiles if they so choose.

I don't think they're overpowered, they're just the least useless missiles at the moment. Dumbfire missiles don't hit consistently and LRMs fire nerf darts, leaving SSRMs.

I would be fine with buffing SRMs to do the same damage/missile as their guided counterparts (that sounds kinda dumb when you think about it).

[DeadlyFred]

You could say the same thing about medium lasers. Do they need to be nerfed just because they're prevalent, cheap and generally pretty solid weapons? Seems silly to me.

[Kenyon Burguess]

I don't mind ssrms at all. its a cut off at 270 meters. ECM and AMS both effects their performance and you can often outmaneuver them with terrain. its 5 damage split in two areas at a cost of 1.5 tons plus the need for ammo. light mechs need just avoid the spammer, medium mechs+ just tear them apart with direct fire. the system is a good one atm

[Goose]

I can't remember the last time I saw an AMS interact with non-LRMs.

Ideally, Streaks would be like SRMs, only with much more velocity, and would use HSR to veto bad shots. But that's not gon'a happen.

They should not get any help from Target Decay or 360.

I'm amazed at how much shake a pair of Streak-2s in chain-fire give, and how it's in sync with the cycle-time of my lasers: Seems legit …

It'd be interesting to see a correlation between Elo and and use of this weapon …

CrutchWarrior, indeed.

[Varent]

NautilusCommand, on 29 December 2013 - 05:20 PM, said:

SSRM's are OP.
Please nerf.
Everyone one (at least I think) would agree SRM's are trash with the problem of the fact the hit-detection is god awful, on top of that SSRM's have a damage of 2.5/per missile. This makes it like caring a flyswatter for light 'mechs. "They aren't because the missiles hit random places witch justify the damage amount" I find this to be a band-aid on the problem. It doesn't matter on the random hit locations because a light hunter sporting 4x2=16 with a recycle time of 3.5 seconds is still stupid amounts of damage in shot burst. Regardless of the fact they hit random points it's only a matter of time before you're legged and {scraped}. On top of it I find LRM's and SSRM's to either leg, or CT you.

TL;DR
They do too much damage for a guaranteed hit.

Translation - I am a light mech pilot. I am angry that someone has a build that can beat me. I feel I should be able to run about with impunity. I want things nerfed that effect my gaming style.

[thesleepyslam]

I think that the point OP is trying to make, is that if you're in a light, you should always have a chance to avoid damage. And only an opponent's skill with non-locking line of sight weapons should determine if he dies quickly due to poor positioning.

Edited by thesleepyslam, 29 December 2013 - 09:46 PM.

[Sandpit]

Interesting thread

Pgi, seems are good in my opinion. Please don't nerf them

[Dock Steward]

thesleepyslam, on 29 December 2013 - 09:36 PM, said:

I think that the point OP is trying to make, is that if you're in a light, you should always have a chance to avoid damage. And only an opponent's skill with non-locking line of sight weapons should determine if he dies quickly due to poor positioning.

Like if he got killed by an AC40 Jager? Then he would be fine with getting killed?

[Thorqemada]

thesleepyslam, on 29 December 2013 - 09:36 PM, said:

I think that the point OP is trying to make, is that if you're in a light, you should always have a chance to avoid damage. And only an opponent's skill with non-locking line of sight weapons should determine if he dies quickly due to poor positioning.

Lights can already avoid damage very well!

[Selfish]

I don't have any problems with SSRMs. They're a solid weapon for players who can't get damage on target reliably, but not powerful enough to beat a direct fire weapon of equivalent damage--like the Mlas. They also have a hard range of 270m, which makes them ineffective against lights that carry any energy weaponry larger than a small laser. Players can also take defensive counters against SSRMs like AMS and ECM. At their best SSRMs are simply area denial, and have no real use in a "light hunter" build. If you manage catch a light in one, you would have killed them sooner with direct fire weapons.

SRMs aren't working properly, but incremental damage increases won't help the fact that they're unreliable at registering that damage. The hit-reg fix for SRMs is coming in about a year. It's deemed too low of a priority to fix before CW is implemented. I'd like to see it sooner, but nerfing SSRMs does nothing to help SRMs.