109 replies to this topic

[Sandpit]

Rebas Kradd, on 02 January 2014 - 01:38 PM, said:

You claim "practical" problems and then start talking in purely "theoretical" terms.

Here's practical for you: My Atlas gets torn up by both dual AC20's and quad AC2's all the time. The solutions involve not standing still and begging to be hit, not wandering around alone out in the open so I attract every K/D-obsessed Jagerboomer in the map, and using smaller and faster mechs so I'm way harder to hit.

This guy gets it

[Varent]

Sandpit, on 02 January 2014 - 01:29 PM, said:

4 LL tbolts aren't anything to scoff at either

Have one... again +1 for style... but I still vote on my jump capability and double ams =p

If I wanna go pure style... I would rock my 6 LL boars head and earn money while doing it. I actually have a game on that mech over 1000 damage. (ill post that when I get home). Imagine that mech unnerfed?

[Sandpit]

Varent, on 02 January 2014 - 01:41 PM, said:

Have one... again +1 for style... but I still vote on my jump capability and double ams =p

If I wanna go pure style... I would rock my 6 LL boars head and earn money while doing it. I actually have a game on that mech over 1000 damage. (ill post that when I get home). Imagine that mech unnerfed?

I'm actually toying with buying a boar for a similar build. I've played around in smurfy with a few designs I'd be interested in seeing your build

[Varent]

Sandpit, on 02 January 2014 - 01:45 PM, said:

I'm actually toying with buying a boar for a similar build. I've played around in smurfy with a few designs I'd be interested in seeing your build

Pretty simply really though ive actually found my 6 medium laster 1 srm6 with artemis and one lbx to be more effective. I can toss ya them both though.

Keep in mind obviously with ghost heat you arent firing all LL at once.

[Sandpit]

Varent, on 02 January 2014 - 01:49 PM, said:

Pretty simply really though ive actually found my 6 medium laster 1 srm6 with artemis and one lbx to be more effective. I can toss ya them both though.

Keep in mind obviously with ghost heat you arent firing all LL at once.

Yea I figured
Chain fire is your friend. I run 5+ LLs on a consistent basis.
I'd actually be interested in taking my stalker toe to toe with your build just to see how long I could make it. You'd have armor advantage but I think I'd have a little more mobility and heat management

[Foxfire]

Really they should turn AC's inst stream weapons(aka AC 5 fire five shots, AC 10 fire 10 shots etc).

The only weapons that should deal 'instant' damage should be the Gauss and the PPC.

[Josef Koba]

Personally I like the different flavors of the weapons as they stand. I'm not saying it's perfect, but having ballistics do some damage over time in a similar way to lasers doesn't make sense to me. Sure, it isn't fun getting hit with two AC/20s, but my highest damage outputs generally come from my four large laser Stalker, which I chain fire. I can essentially do a constant, unyielding stream of damage (depending on the map), and with 23 DHS, I cool pretty fast. People getting shot with lasers tend to underestimate the damage they're taking, but it is also unsettling to be taking damage without a break. People run from the two AC/20s; people tend to dramatically underestimate the damage they're taking from my four large lasers.

Again, there are some issues. But I am not sure this is one of them. In any case, it's good that the fan base is so passionate.

Foxfire, on 02 January 2014 - 02:01 PM, said:

Really they should turn AC's inst stream weapons(aka AC 5 fire five shots, AC 10 fire 10 shots etc).

The only weapons that should deal 'instant' damage should be the Gauss and the PPC.

I don't understand the "why" to your last sentence. I'm not being snarky; I'm genuinely curious why this should be the case.

[Sandpit]

Josef Koba, on 02 January 2014 - 02:42 PM, said:

Personally I like the different flavors of the weapons as they stand. I'm not saying it's perfect, but having ballistics do some damage over time in a similar way to lasers doesn't make sense to me. Sure, it isn't fun getting hit with two AC/20s, but my highest damage outputs generally come from my four large laser Stalker, which I chain fire. I can essentially do a constant, unyielding stream of damage (depending on the map), and with 23 DHS, I cool pretty fast. People getting shot with lasers tend to underestimate the damage they're taking, but it is also unsettling to be taking damage without a break. People run from the two AC/20s; people tend to dramatically underestimate the damage they're taking from my four large lasers.

Again, there are some issues. But I am not sure this is one of them. In any case, it's good that the fan base is so passionate.



I don't understand the "why" to your last sentence. I'm not being snarky; I'm genuinely curious why this should be the case.

This
You should try out my 5ll 5M with 21dhs
good times

[Josef Koba]

Sandpit, on 02 January 2014 - 02:42 PM, said:

This
You should try out my 5ll 5M with 21dhs
good times

I've used four large las with two large pulse las before, and it was pretty effective as well. I've done five, but figured the extra laser didn't really add much since four will chain fire without a break and I could cool a bit faster. I might give it another shot on your recommendation. What difference in performance should I expect to see?

[Myomes]

If we had instant front loaded damage from lasers, like Tabletop battletech, this thread wouldn't exist. DoT lasers ruin a lot of battletech's core game, from being unable to kill lights or pose enough of a threat to drive off their hordes, to spreading damage out (and dont say aim better, the aiming system feels like a bouncy pachinko machine compared to mechwarrior 3), when you've got priority targets to kill. They did it for "balance', but then they left AC's the same.organic TT/BT builds that revolve around 1 LL and 2-3 MLs and are/were great light/medium mech hunter-killers, are terrible here, which is why people resort to streak spam.

Edited by Myomes, 02 January 2014 - 03:49 PM.

[Sandpit]

Josef Koba, on 02 January 2014 - 03:27 PM, said:

I've used four large las with two large pulse las before, and it was pretty effective as well. I've done five, but figured the extra laser didn't really add much since four will chain fire without a break and I could cool a bit faster. I might give it another shot on your recommendation. What difference in performance should I expect to see?

I have a lot of success grouping them in 1 and 2
The extra LL usually lets me just fire a steadier stream without a break in between and that extra LL has bailed me out in last ditch efforts where it's either me or them
I can usually cycle through 4-5 times on most maps before I need to start worrying about cooling off but chain fire is a must saving the alpha strikes for last ditch efforts and when you absolutely need the other guy dead

[Joseph Mallan]

Almond Brown, on 02 January 2014 - 12:11 PM, said:

Hell YaY! Give us Energy users a "Heavy Laser" that does 20 damage in a .25s burn for 12 Heat, has an optimal range of 325m (x2 to maximum) and weighs a gross 9 tons. Then we will see what the "Ballista babies" have to say about **** not being OP...
Hell YaY!

Nope. Make energy weapons take less time to deliver their damage. I understand why we have laser working as they do, but it makes them less effective than a front loaded weapon like ACs. Also it hurts them when Ballistics can converge front loaded damage on a single pixel.

ACs are not OP. Everything else is UP.

[Hillslam]

Also Lasers do nothing to impair the target pilot like ACs and missiles do.

[Almond Brown]

Joseph Mallan, on 03 January 2014 - 04:49 AM, said:

Nope. Make energy weapons take less time to deliver their damage. I understand why we have laser working as they do, but it makes them less effective than a front loaded weapon like ACs. Also it hurts them when Ballistics can converge front loaded damage on a single pixel.

ACs are not OP. Everything else is UP.

I was being facetious Joseph and YES, reduce the base Energy burn duration to 0.75 (25%) to start. Pulses and be reduced as well if desired.

Let us try them there and see how it plays out.

[Varent]

Almond Brown, on 03 January 2014 - 09:46 AM, said:

I was being facetious Joseph and YES, reduce the base Energy burn duration to 0.75 (25%) to start. Pulses and be reduced as well if desired.

Let us try them there and see how it plays out.

My fear would be a possible buff to lights that is unnecesary. Perhaps that on large lasers alone.

[Foxfire]

Josef Koba, on 02 January 2014 - 02:42 PM, said:

Personally I like the different flavors of the weapons as they stand. I'm not saying it's perfect, but having ballistics do some damage over time in a similar way to lasers doesn't make sense to me. Sure, it isn't fun getting hit with two AC/20s, but my highest damage outputs generally come from my four large laser Stalker, which I chain fire. I can essentially do a constant, unyielding stream of damage (depending on the map), and with 23 DHS, I cool pretty fast. People getting shot with lasers tend to underestimate the damage they're taking, but it is also unsettling to be taking damage without a break. People run from the two AC/20s; people tend to dramatically underestimate the damage they're taking from my four large lasers.

Again, there are some issues. But I am not sure this is one of them. In any case, it's good that the fan base is so passionate.



I don't understand the "why" to your last sentence. I'm not being snarky; I'm genuinely curious why this should be the case.

For practical reasons: Makes it easier to balance the game. You gain more variables to adjust which leads to the ability to do more intelligent balancing instead of throwing arbitrary systems, such as ghost heat, around.

IMO, this will also lead to better game play because you limit the ability to do pin point damage to two weapons(the PPC and Gauss) which have been given a real tradeoff for the ability to do so(heat for PPC's, exploding weapon and weight limitations for the Gauss).

For lore reason: With only a few exceptions(one or two brands and LBX cannons), Autocannons were more along the lines of giant burst fire guns.

[Foxfire]

Joseph Mallan, on 03 January 2014 - 04:49 AM, said:

Nope. Make energy weapons take less time to deliver their damage. I understand why we have laser working as they do, but it makes them less effective than a front loaded weapon like ACs. Also it hurts them when Ballistics can converge front loaded damage on a single pixel.

ACs are not OP. Everything else is UP.

I would suggest that the issue isn't with energy but with the ability to front-load damage without a robust convergence system in the game(something we won't likely see since it wasn't designed into the basis of the game structure).

[Joseph Mallan]

Define a robust convergence system? How stuff converges now is pretty stupid in my book. It kinda invalidates a Clan Advanced Targeting Computer as is.

[CeeKay Boques]

Ugh, I can't decide if I should post in Ballistic vs Laser Weaponry or Ballistics Bettering Beams... I mean one already made a decision, while this one offers up crushing debate.

[Sandpit]

Technoviking, on 03 January 2014 - 10:31 AM, said:

Ugh, I can't decide if I should post in Ballistic vs Laser Weaponry or Ballistics Bettering Beams... I mean one already made a decision, while this one offers up crushing debate.

Welcome to my world techno lol

I wouldn't want to see convergence altered at this point
I like the idea of shortening beam duration but if you do that I think it needs to be clarified are we talking just the beam duration and not messing with RoF right?
If so I'd start at .1 not .25 and go from there