48 replies to this topic

[Slepnir]

There have been a slew of clan balancing topics but that's not the key thing I want to address, I keep seeing this concept being said- "clans broke the TT game" and I want to address it and put an end to it. I have been playing the TT game since 1987, I played the succession wars and yes I played the clan invasion and beyond. In fact I still play on a regular basis we play different eras in my gaming group, as well as IS v IS, clan V clan and IS V clan as well. To the guy who people point to who worked for fasa and the posters that re-iterate his position it absolutely did not break the game, not in the least.......... the thing about TT is that there are a slew of mitigating balance factors in-built into the game. via various crit and pilot damage as well as random hit locations...........................obviously we cannot do random hit locations in a FPS game and they do have some crit location hits (but not he full range) a point I think needs to be addressed is that clan mechs DO NOT have better armor than their IS counterparts. while their guns hit harder and go farther they are just as easy to kill by an IS mechs weapons as any other IS mechs.......I believe this point has been missed in the "nerf the clan weapons" topics that keep popping up. In the TT experience when we put 2 IS lances against a single clan star it is a fair fight............translating to MWO, all of us have played enough by now to know that if we drop short due to matchmaker or disconnect bugs we really have to step up our game to compensate for being out-numbered. after considering this I don't think that clan weapons, even as good as they should be, will be anything but a fair fight especially if they start out outnumbered. by an IS force.....................................................................P.S. sorry about the wall of text, for some reason the MWO forums wont let me, return or tab down to start a new paragraph

[Waelsleaht]

I support this wall of txt. And you have been playing TT as long as I've been alive. lol

[Eddrick]

I would be okay with this if we didn't already have so many matches with one side being short on people. What would happen if the IS side is short 1-3 people? The numerical advantage would be lost and the IS side would be Outgunned by the Clans superior Tech.

[SaltBeef]

None of the other games were broke for me either. Rumor milling and skullduggery!! Getting clan tech was exciting and neat to put on inner sphere mechs. Clan should have better armor, better weapons, better everything!! MWO nerfing is gonna follow this game around like Leprosy until it dies!! ...and if they equal the clan that is for sure it will be known as the MechWarrior game that stunk and the next game will go right back to lore. MHO.

[SaltBeef]

Single player was the funnest part of all of the games in the past , Single player campaigns allowed you to run mechs with their stock load-out. You will always have problems with boating or mech superiority in Multiplayer setting.and can never run a stock mech that is effective against a mad cat with 6er LL or Mad dog with 10 lrm 5's. or sunders with 6 x-pulse lasers.

[Selfish]

Slepnir, on 01 January 2014 - 07:36 AM, said:

a point I think needs to be addressed is that clan mechs DO NOT have better armor than their IS counterparts. while their guns hit harder and go farther they are just as easy to kill by an IS mechs weapons as any other IS mechs.......I believe this point has been missed in the "nerf the clan weapons" topics that keep popping up.

I wouldn't say that was missed. There are a lot of unknown factors when it comes to clan items, and they can greatly increase the survivability of clan mechs.

The implementation of CXLs will be a major kicking point for how powerful Clan mechs will be. Engines aren't broken into crit slots like in TT. They'd have to completely redesign the system to make engines act like the TT's 3 crits to disable. With the way they've handled engine destruction so far you'll probably need to destroy either the CT, or the LT AND RT to kill a clan mech. Double side torsos have more armor than the CT, plus they open up better avenues for mitigation. Clan XLs may be ultimately more resilient than STD IS Engines, and that can make up for any armor deficiencies--though there are clan mechs who don't have drawbacks.

I don't like the idea of devs using TRO fixed armor. The armor values from TT are not balanced for an FPS. Some Mechs, like the Dire Wolf, already run near max armor while mechs like the Kit Fox and Summoner are just cruel jokes. You're going to see either new, gradated fixed values implemented by the devs, or a relaxation of their 'fixed' system. Otherwise you end up with the potential for lots of lemons in the Clans, and then you have mechs that are randomly fast enough, and well armored enough, to completely outclass anything that inhabits their weight class.

[SaltBeef]

WRONG! Inner sphere FF was 12 percent better protection Clan 20 percent better over standard. http://www.sarna.net...i/Ferro-Fibrous http://www.sarna.net...lan_Armor_Types

Edited by SaltBeef, 01 January 2014 - 01:08 PM.

[Dirus Nigh]

Clan tech did unbalance battletech. Randal Bills, and Wiesman have said as much. They also said they would have done it differently if they had the chance.

Edited by Dirus Nigh, 01 January 2014 - 01:12 PM.

[SaltBeef]

But they did not and for 30yrs we played it that way and loved it!!

Edited by SaltBeef, 01 January 2014 - 01:18 PM.

[Sandpit]

I agree with everything the op said

I just don't agree with it in regards to this game.

One simple factor is absent from this game that was present in tt.
A game master.
This simple feature is what balanced tt games. They ensured that forces and the campaign were evenly balanced while still being challenging.
Absent that there must be mechanics implemented to achieve similar results

[Varent]

Sandpit, on 01 January 2014 - 01:28 PM, said:

I agree with everything the op said

I just don't agree with it in regards to this game.

One simple factor is absent from this game that was present in tt.
A game master.
This simple feature is what balanced tt games. They ensured that forces and the campaign were evenly balanced while still being challenging.
Absent that there must be mechanics implemented to achieve similar results

This is not Table Top.

What so few people fail to realize.

Its a shooter.

Deal with it.

[SaltBeef]

I will not be considered a good MechWarrior game if it is as you say Just a shooter!

[Varent]

SaltBeef, on 01 January 2014 - 01:51 PM, said:

I will not be considered a good MechWarrior game if it is as you say Just a shooter!

And yet it may still be considered a good game. Times change. Adapt.

[SaltBeef]

We shall see! I am optimistic that it may be and that people are hard working to keep the game true to the story and not just making it up as they go along! People with that mindset screwed up Battlestar Galactica and the Highlander movie sequels.

[Stelar 7]

Let's be a little more honest shall we I have been playing since the eighties add well. Clan tech rendered IS tech obsolete and set of yet Years of arms race rules changes. Clan Armor values had the same Max potential but it was lighter and led bulky and that means that a clan mech is faster and Beyer Armed and cooler than IS wrought equiviant.

Balance by tonnage is {Scrap} it will force one side to debe Canon fodder.

[Nik Van Rhijn]

Varent, on 01 January 2014 - 01:55 PM, said:

And yet it may still be considered a good game. Times change. Adapt.

It may indeed be a good "shooter". If i don't consider it mechWarrior then I won't "adapt" I'll just play the many other games i have competing for my time. Games aren't in such short supply that we have to adapt, they have to compete for our attention.
Whether a mech skinned shooter will appeal to many people for long is another matter, especially if they lose the whales.

[Varent]

Nik Van Rhijn, on 01 January 2014 - 02:38 PM, said:

It may indeed be a good "shooter". If i don't consider it mechWarrior then I won't "adapt" I'll just play the many other games i have competing for my time. Games aren't in such short supply that we have to adapt, they have to compete for our attention.
Whether a mech skinned shooter will appeal to many people for long is another matter, especially if they lose the whales.

I enjoy it. Its a much slower pace and focuses on tactics and team play. Not many other shooters out there do that.

[Sandpit]

Nik Van Rhijn, on 01 January 2014 - 02:38 PM, said:

It may indeed be a good "shooter". If i don't consider it mechWarrior then I won't "adapt" I'll just play the many other games i have competing for my time. Games aren't in such short supply that we have to adapt, they have to compete for our attention.
Whether a mech skinned shooter will appeal to many people for long is another matter, especially if they lose the whales.

Point being tt rules and mechanics will never completely transfer to a shooter like this. They simply aren't and weren't designed for this
That being said I enjoy the game and feel it's a very good rendition of btech

[elsie]

It may not have broke your TT game. But it definitely broke mine and a couple of others that I observed. Besides FASA, I also have to blame a number of the players back then as well; they fell into three basic groups - the ones that liked the concept of the clans; the ones that were munchkins and wanted the easiest, lowest risk side; and the monkeys-with-the-gun that just wanted the BFG because they couldn't win any other way. You could play against the first group fairly well. The other two, not so much. So my game went from a fairly varied, frequent group of players to a small number of regular players to a smaller group of infrequent players as we gradually got tired of it.


elsie

[Dirkdaring]

I don't mind them changing the clan weapons around somewhat, but what will be the laughing stock of lore for me is if clans drop beside IS mechs.

A clanner would rather put on a pink polka dotted dress and frolic in the daisies than fight alongside freebirth scum.