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Gameplay Balance And How To Understand It.


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#101 Varent

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Posted 03 January 2014 - 11:56 AM

View PostJoseph Mallan, on 03 January 2014 - 11:54 AM, said:

Sorry but Streaks were meant as crit seeker weapons on TT. You opened up a Mech's armor, then used Streaks to guarantee hits or burn no heat or ammo. They were not light hunting weapons. Those were Pulse lasers.


this isnt tabtletop... please dont feed the trolls man and try to tell him things that arent true in this game. You will just get him more angry as he fails. If your going to give advice at least give valid advice.

In this game its streaks, period, they work, streaks and BAP

#102 Joseph Mallan

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Posted 03 January 2014 - 11:59 AM

View PostVarent, on 03 January 2014 - 11:56 AM, said:


this isnt tabtletop... please dont feed the trolls man and try to tell him things that arent true in this game. You will just get him more angry as he fails. If your going to give advice at least give valid advice.

In this game its streaks, period, they work, streaks and BAP

I don't use streaks. I do have my problems with ECM Lights but I kill 'em just fine with out Streaks. I am not here to make everyone happy, just those who are willing to be happy in spite of the depressing community. :D

#103 colsan

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Posted 03 January 2014 - 01:00 PM

View PostJoseph Mallan, on 03 January 2014 - 11:42 AM, said:

A Light killer is a fast Medium with a mix of Streaks(or in m case SRMs) and medium lasers. It has been this since ECM was introduced... But that was well before your time. Back then we had Murders of Ravens running around killing every light Mech (and most everything else) in sight. PPCs are known to cancel an ECM for a duration and its not affected by ECM for targeting. :D


I feel like we are playing entirely different games:

I have used PPCs; they are hard to use against lights, and the "counter-ECM" function is a joke; maybe against an Atlas, where you can keep hitting it long enough to actually get lock, fire, and hit, but against lights, you are only wasting missiles.

I ran both a shadowhawk and a kintaro; again, multiple ECM renders streaks useless, and lasers spread out the damage so much that you need half a dozen of them to be effective, and the super-magic-ghost heat comes back into play. You can mount other weapons, but then a heavy is better.


For everyone else: Sorry if I'm being offensive, but so are some of you; I am not a new player, I came here for help before, got the same answers, and have found them lacking. The responses I received this time were curt, dismissive, irrelevant and rude.

#104 colsan

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Posted 03 January 2014 - 01:12 PM

View PostLunatech, on 03 January 2014 - 11:50 AM, said:

SHD-2D2, XL350, four Streaks, two JJ's, Mlas or Mpulse and ammo to taste. Say goodbye to your light problem. They scare me more than Kintaro's, and that's saying something. Edit: BAP. Always BAP.


You know, I had a 5M and I was going to open up the tree, oh, maybe a month ago, but it seems like that's when I really started having trouble with lights and decided to work on the commando tree.

My A1 isn't doing so hot, lately, though, so I may sell it and open up a bay.

I will give this a try, thank you.

#105 Praehotec8

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Posted 03 January 2014 - 01:33 PM

View Postcolsan, on 03 January 2014 - 11:49 AM, said:

LBX has too long of a recycle time, spreads out damage, low DPS, etc.

SRMs are what I use currently, but with super-magic-ghost heat, missing is deadly, and you miss a lot.

The AC/40 does OK, again, if it gets lucky. Even on a hit, though, it might be an arm with nothing in it.


1.) LBXs are actually more useful than people think, but they must be combined with other weapons. If you get most of the pellets to hit, it won't take long for a light to begin to crumple or at least to disengage. I won't argue that it could be better, but it's far from a useless weapon.

2.) SRM hit reg. is awful or else they would be great. In the Open-beta-ian era, when the mighty splatcats walked the earth (like T-Rex!), I used an LRM-20/SRM-20 A-1 that would absolutely destroy lights. Now, you're better off using SRMs solely as a backup weapon. Too much heat for not enough reliability in the current splatcat.

3.) The AC40 jager ought to destroy lights. There is little luck involved here, but you need to be able to accurately hit the legs of a light. One or two good shots will leg a light, and once a leg is gone, all that remains for the light is the bleeding.

4.) You should never be all alone. Even if all of your lance scatters, you should rejoin the bulk of your team or, at the minimum stay with one of your lancemates. A slow assault can occasionally be left behind by being matched with 3 light lancemates who run off, but A: that is uncommon and they can usually rejoin the team, and B: none of your mechs fits that category.

If you and your lone lancemate you stuck with do run into a 4-man wolfpack, well, 4v2 is poor odds regardless of the class of mechs. I do think that two assaults ought to win vs. 4 lights, but that ship sailed from the development team long ago, so we have to make do with the game we have. Four vs. 1 you will die regardless, and that is how it should be. Just remember that you are as responsible for staying with the group as they are for sticking with you...more so even.

I find streaks worthless (I know others like them). They are only useful for driving off lights, and it irks me to have an opponent with a red CT and I can't kill it with 5 rounds of streaks. SRM2s usually hit pretty well, weigh less, and more importantly, CAN BE AIMED.

In the end, yes, lights are tougher than they actually should be, and assaults should be tougher than they are but we all must do the best we can with the balance we have.

My strategy is largely to simply convince lights to prey elsewhere, and then ignore them. It's very easy to do, but you must NEVER be isolated from teammates or you will be wolfpack food. Often when I die horribly it is because I failed to notice my team moving and did not keep up. Sometimes your team will move to a bad location or be too separated, but that is the risk of running in PUGs, but at least stay with SOMEONE.

Last, your AC40 jager should be killing lights left and right, but your aim needs to be accurate. I love fighting lights when I have an AC20 equipped mech, and I do it with a joystick, so you should be able to also. (no disrespect intended) Good luck!

#106 Trauglodyte

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Posted 03 January 2014 - 01:36 PM

Oh Joe, don't do that with SW:TOR. Its bad for your health.

#107 Osis

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Posted 03 January 2014 - 02:00 PM

View PostVarent, on 03 January 2014 - 08:50 AM, said:


Blastman called for backup. That said, being primarly a brawler and having killed several lords several times. I would beg to differ.

Yes they use meta builds, yes they run well.

But still yes they die.

No one is unkillable. And more often then not just because of what I and many of my squadmates prefer to use, We have killed them with srms, lasers, etc.... etc...


Blastman called for nothing, also where did I say LORDS players are unkillable? The high ELO players see each other all the time, if you do not see them it is because you are not in that bracket and therefore telling Blast to train is nonsense.

Your differing can be cleared up pretty quick with some 12 vs 12.

Seyla,

#108 Varent

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Posted 03 January 2014 - 02:07 PM

View PostOsis, on 03 January 2014 - 02:00 PM, said:


Blastman called for nothing, also where did I say LORDS players are unkillable? The high ELO players see each other all the time, if you do not see them it is because you are not in that bracket and therefore telling Blast to train is nonsense.

Your differing can be cleared up pretty quick with some 12 vs 12.

Seyla,


Err I did not tell blastman to train good sir, I was simply amused by the fact that after a long argument with people one of his fellows came to back them up. It amuses me when that seems to be common place on the forums.

Wee bit serious arent we?

*hugs*

View PostOsis, on 03 January 2014 - 08:21 AM, said:

if you drop against LORDS you will never get within 90 meters. You will eat PPC, AC fire in great quantities from HGN, VTR & CTF Mechs till your dead.


And this btw. is where you seem to think such things.

#109 YueFei

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Posted 03 January 2014 - 02:23 PM

View Postcolsan, on 03 January 2014 - 11:29 AM, said:


My win/loss ratio is >1. It would be higher if the game weren't ****ed.


You are such a crybaby that it is almost adorable. *pinches you on the cheek*

#110 colsan

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Posted 03 January 2014 - 06:09 PM

View PostYueFei, on 03 January 2014 - 02:23 PM, said:


You are such a crybaby that it is almost adorable. *pinches you on the cheek*


Say hello to your wife and my kids.

#111 Joseph Mallan

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Posted 04 January 2014 - 06:29 AM

View Postcolsan, on 03 January 2014 - 01:00 PM, said:


I feel like we are playing entirely different games:

I have used PPCs; they are hard to use against lights, and the "counter-ECM" function is a joke; maybe against an Atlas, where you can keep hitting it long enough to actually get lock, fire, and hit, but against lights, you are only wasting missiles.

I ran both a shadowhawk and a kintaro; again, multiple ECM renders streaks useless, and lasers spread out the damage so much that you need half a dozen of them to be effective, and the super-magic-ghost heat comes back into play. You can mount other weapons, but then a heavy is better.


For everyone else: Sorry if I'm being offensive, but so are some of you; I am not a new player, I came here for help before, got the same answers, and have found them lacking. The responses I received this time were curt, dismissive, irrelevant and rude.
PPCs are not suppoesd to be easy to use against a fast light. We are not supposed to have it EASY hitting a Mech Moving at 130+KpH. That is the point of being a fast 'Mech, yer hard to hit.

Again Have some streaks and some SRMs. If you Boat streaks you screw yourself because ECM is OP. Learn to work around the problem instead of somplain about it. I have played v every Meta and I have learned how to beat all of them arounf 50% of the time.

You need to stop trying to make one trick always work, ECM is the counter to Streaks, so when you encounter it, have a trick to beat ECM. Folks have told you TAG, NARC, BAP & PPCs help. Using weapons that don't rely on target lock helps, the rest is up to you. Don't run away from your fellow Light hunters, have counters, use weapons that do scatter damage, aim for legs using lasers. These are all tactics that help against ECM Lights. Being completely honest, I suck at killing Lights, But That is on me. I know what my weaknesses are and I accept that. Mybe you aren't meant to be a Light hunter... :ph34r:

#112 colsan

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Posted 04 January 2014 - 08:57 AM

View PostJoseph Mallan, on 04 January 2014 - 06:29 AM, said:

Folks have told you TAG, NARC, BAP & PPCs help.


Anyone who tells someone that any of those are actual counters to ECM should be punched in the face. It is that insulting

#113 Thorqemada

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Posted 04 January 2014 - 09:35 AM

The secret to use Streaks against Lights is BAP+Artemis - of course you need to avoid being the early target for a Wolfpack or you are dead in 5 seconds by them.

BAP cancels 1 ECM - you need to position yourself accordingly.

Artemis speeds up the Lock On by 50% which is very helpful.

You need at least 3xSSRM2 with at least 2 tons of Ammo - Rule of Thumb: You want Ammo for 33 SSRM-Alphas!

Some additional Damage is very hepful - i have also a LBX on my SHD bcs i can not free up more tons and i like the Weapon anyway as it is a Fun-Gun (nothing better than an AC20 to cripple Lights though).

But do not expect quick kills - that will not happen!

Edited by Thorqemada, 04 January 2014 - 09:35 AM.


#114 Joseph Mallan

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Posted 04 January 2014 - 09:55 AM

View Postcolsan, on 04 January 2014 - 08:57 AM, said:


Anyone who tells someone that any of those are actual counters to ECM should be punched in the face. It is that insulting

My counter to ECM is to not use Streaks or LRMs.

You know you should see someone about that temper of yours. It'll end you up in trouble before to long. :ph34r:

#115 Bagheera

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Posted 04 January 2014 - 11:31 AM

Colsan - just find yourself a maneuverable mech that can mount an AC20. Then practice the hell out of it until you can reliably hit a light mech. Watch how they run when you hit them with a round. ECM doesn't stop bullets. This will not help you when getting swarmed by more than 2 lights if you are solo on the field - but that's a team-work and positioning problem, not a weapon problem. Separate issues.

View PostJoseph Mallan, on 02 January 2014 - 11:56 AM, said:

I have spent the last 4 days grinding 5 Characters in SWTOR. At least there I get to actually earn swag, Rank, An a feeling of accomplishment. All I get here is C-Bills.


That's still going? :P

#116 colsan

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Posted 04 January 2014 - 02:20 PM

View PostThorqemada, on 04 January 2014 - 09:35 AM, said:

Some additional Damage is very hepful - i have also a LBX on my SHD bcs i can not free up more tons and i like the Weapon anyway as it is a Fun-Gun (nothing better than an AC20 to cripple Lights though).


Yea, I'm trying the 2D2 recommended earlier; is the 350xl just too big? I don't have the weight for a ballistic.

It can't really fight any big mediums or heavies, though.

View PostJoseph Mallan, on 04 January 2014 - 09:55 AM, said:

You know you should see someone about that temper of yours. It'll end you up in trouble before to long. :P


Or maybe those suggestions really are that insulting; just a thought.

#117 Thorqemada

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Posted 04 January 2014 - 05:46 PM

I have a 300xl - you need to find a good compromize between Speed and Armament that works for you.

#118 colsan

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Posted 04 January 2014 - 05:54 PM

View PostThorqemada, on 04 January 2014 - 05:46 PM, said:

I have a 300xl - you need to find a good compromize between Speed and Armament that works for you.


Swapped in a 300 (what to do with the 350 now?) and an ac/5. Is there a way around the UAC jamming bug? Because that would rock.

#119 Thorqemada

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Posted 04 January 2014 - 06:00 PM

I used an AC5 b4 i switched to the LBX - it will never jam, alternatively you can toy around with a PPC in the Arm to see if it fits you.
To prevent the U/AC from jmming you need to time your shots or to use a timing Macro for no double-shot.

PS: Keep the 350, you may find out you want the Speed in exchange for a lighter Armament - if the 300xl works you can sell the 350 or put it into another Mech.

Edited by Thorqemada, 04 January 2014 - 06:12 PM.


#120 colsan

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Posted 05 January 2014 - 05:26 PM

Well, that worked for about 20 matches; now it's getting swarmed by multi-ECM wolfpacks 3/4 of the time.





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