550 replies to this topic

[xMintaka]

t Khrist, on 16 September 2015 - 12:23 PM, said:

I too am very excited for CQC though, for essentially the same reasons. A queue for dog-fighting in space against other people sounds fantastic, and I'm very excited. I'm also looking forward to Horizons, snagging it up tomorrow.



How do I access this?

From the launcher. No opt in or anything. Just run "Elite Dangerous CQC Stress Test" from there and it will install.

Probably not worth spending a ton of time on it before it goes live in early October though. Nothing carries over and it would feel like wasted time imho. Still fun to play around in.

[Alreech]

IIIuminaughty, on 16 September 2015 - 10:47 AM, said:

I want this game so bad but I think ill just wait until Star Citizen comes out

What doesn't make sense, right ?

Star Citizen will be out in spring 2016 (Squadron 42 Singleplayer / Coop) and Winter 2016 (open world).
Elite Dangerous is out now.
If you buy it now, you will have 4 - 5 months to play until the first Episode of Squadron 42...
If you can wait until hollyday season, grab Elite Dangerous Horizons.

[IIIuminaughty]

Alreech, on 16 September 2015 - 05:06 PM, said:

What doesn't make sense, right ?

Star Citizen will be out in spring 2016 (Squadron 42 Singleplayer / Coop) and Winter 2016 (open world).
Elite Dangerous is out now.
If you buy it now, you will have 4 - 5 months to play until the first Episode of Squadron 42...
If you can wait until hollyday season, grab Elite Dangerous Horizons.

I just might.

I also have alpha access to star citizen as well

Edited by IIIuminaughty, 16 September 2015 - 05:11 PM.

[Lily from animove]

Khrist, are you telling him to not try seal clubbing? thats of course not what most dare to do.

[Kyone Akashi]

Alreech, on 16 September 2015 - 05:06 PM, said:

Star Citizen will be out in spring 2016 (Squadron 42 Singleplayer / Coop) and Winter 2016 (open world).

I wouldn't bet on that, considering previous dates and the huge list of stuff they still want to do.

They've opted for an approach where they want to release everything at once, which means it's gonna take time. The studio has to tweak a lot of the basics in their engine, and even just bringing together the puzzle pieces worked on by a dozen different teams will be a challenge in itself.

If he wants to give Elite a try, the Horizons preorder sounds like a good deal, though. Should save him a few bucks.

Personally, I'd recommend making the choice of game depend on preference of flight model and artistic style. ED and SC have a lot of similarities otherwise, but I believe those two factors alone will yield a notably different gameplay experience.

Elite: a mixture of cyberpunk and existential horror in a 1:1 replica of the Milky Way, with a dark and gritty setting and a flight model that encourages traditional "WW2 style" dogfights as you'd see them in most sci-fi movies.

SC: more of a space opera theme with "retro" looking spaceships and a Newtonian flight model (somewhat similar to the one attempted in Elite 2), limited to a (much) smaller number of worlds, but with entirely handcrafted maps as opposed to procedurally generated environments, placing detail before freedom.

It's really a matter of what sort of style you prefer, although I am sure a good selection can only be made if you've tried and compared both. Most of the other features present or on the "coming soon" list of both games are pretty similar, though, so there is some overlap.

[Alreech]

Hm, IMHO ist the style of Elite Dangerous more retro than the style of Star Citizen.

The look of E:D Spaceships is very similar to the Spaceships from the covers of 60', 70' & 80' pulps like Omni or New Worlds.
Classical painters of that era are John Harris, Jim Burns, Ian Craig.

Star Citizens "reto" looking spaceships are more inspired by the look of Star Wars (1977).

Edited by Alreech, 17 September 2015 - 08:33 AM.

[Kyone Akashi]

Hmm, I can see where you're coming from, at least with some of the designs -- specifically, the ones that are evolutions of the original Elite 1 wireframe models.

With "retro", I was referring to many SC ship designs apparently trying to imitate historical real world objects. The last ship I've seen was the Hull, and it really reminded me of those old silver Greyhound buses (the style of "Fallout" came to mind as I saw it). However, as with Elite, there are some ships that follow a different philosophy, so I guess it cannot be applied uniformly.

The one major difference we can probably agree on is that SC ships generally look a lot more "greebly", with wings and fins and lights and antennae, whereas ED ships follow a sturdier pattern with sleek armored surfaces, where even the weapons have to be raised out of shielded bays. Racing car vs nuclear submarine, in a way?

[Fiachdubh]

They are both very different approaches to space sim games so unless one really appeals to you and the other doesn't you might as well get both because God knows when Star Citizen will actually be released. Not a criticism of Chris Roberts, its just a fact of life in this particular industry. Besides each core game is the cost of one or two nights in the pub but will provide far more entertainment and satisfaction and will not leave you feeling like crap in the morning. I am a backer of both as well as an MWO founder. I play Elite a lot in comparison with only a few matches of MWO every 7 or 8 months.

[t Khrist]

Lily from animove, on 17 September 2015 - 02:10 AM, said:

Khrist, are you telling him to not try seal clubbing? thats of course not what most dare to do.

Club away , just not if you're looking for something that fights back..

[Lily from animove]

t Khrist, on 17 September 2015 - 04:14 PM, said:

Club away , just not if you're looking for something that fights back..

I like asteroids,

they are perfect friends.

they always listen
they never do ******** things
they do not fight back
thy are full of money
And there are plenty of them.


Ok, but now a bit bakc to some more serious stuff.

I bought the game last week.


And my first impression is that the game feels rather "dead"

I know space is giant in size, but comapred to X:rebirth it feels there is way too less NPC traffic in Elite.

I entered one of those agrar stations and WOW, they have demand for fertilizer about 1.8million tons. o.O And hat was only one position on their demand list. And thats ONE station.
But thinking about how many positions they demand and in which ranges and whats the biggest ship if outfitted for space can carry, the result would be a lot more traffic being needed to properly establish even basic need coverage across the galaxy. There should be way more NPC ships around travelling and trading between all those stations.

Edited by Lily from animove, 18 September 2015 - 05:25 AM.

[Kyone Akashi]

Lily from animove, on 18 September 2015 - 05:24 AM, said:

I entered one of those agrar stations and WOW, they have demand for fertilizer about 1.8million tons. o.O And hat was only one position on their demand list. And thats ONE station.
But thinking about how many positions they demand and in which ranges and whats the biggest ship if outfitted for space can carry, the result would be a lot more traffic being needed to properly establish even basic need coverage across the galaxy. There should be way more NPC ships around travelling and trading between all those stations.

Something unfortunately not yet represented in ED is the presence of scenery superfreighters like this one or this one from Elite 2. They obviously exist in the background and are mentioned in some of the novels, but as of right now are not actually present in the current game.

The smaller ships available to players are usually not meant to cover a planet's basic needs (aside from exceptions like frontier colonies or outposts), but rather to supplement the larger traffic -- especially when it comes to the more expensive goods you'd never amass on a single bulk carrier for fear of pirates.

More heavily populated worlds usually have quite a bit of traffic going on, it's just that Agriworlds are basically just a bunch of farms with little interstellar trade aside from the occasional corporate megahauler. Also, keep in mind that the demand of the markets may not always correspond to what the planetary economy actually uses/needs; you aren't selling directly to the farmers (unless you take a mission from the board!).

[Lily from animove]

Kyone Akashi, on 18 September 2015 - 12:01 PM, said:

Something unfortunately not yet represented in ED is the presence of scenery superfreighters like this one or this one from Elite 2. They obviously exist in the background and are mentioned in some of the novels, but as of right now are not actually present in the current game.

The smaller ships available to players are usually not meant to cover a planet's basic needs (aside from exceptions like frontier colonies or outposts), but rather to supplement the larger traffic -- especially when it comes to the more expensive goods you'd never amass on a single bulk carrier for fear of pirates.

More heavily populated worlds usually have quite a bit of traffic going on, it's just that Agriworlds are basically just a bunch of farms with little interstellar trade aside from the occasional corporate megahauler. Also, keep in mind that the demand of the markets may not always correspond to what the planetary economy actually uses/needs; you aren't selling directly to the farmers (unless you take a mission from the board!).

wow nice, well I never played any Elite game except the original. hmm, interesting, but those would then need some cargo hauling smaller ships, the stations don't even have docking stations big enough
Why would the market have a demand for goods if it wouldn't sell? that must be the galaxy's worst merchants housing at this place.


But my thoughts on ED so far:

Its Elite: Han Solo

For some reason smuggling stuff is way too easy and way to rewarding over any other tasks, unless you have a ship big enough in cargo to make one trip trading faster. Even more funny, you enter that system to deliver 5t of slaves and they caught you and net you some bounty which is like 1/6th of the missions worth. LOL So even in that case you simply end the mision pay your fee, and everything is fine.
While on the other side I exited one of the stations and a NPC ship decided to appear right past that exit. bumped into it, got a 260 fee for "rude flying" and got immediately shot down by space police. TOTALLY reasonable.

and then the entire Front shift drive thingy, WOW you always when flying to a system get "hyperspaced" superclose to the sun. What genious kind of technology is that? lets just hope out tehc is 100% proof because even with a 0,001% ratio of error, we have a lot vaporizing spaceships.

Mining is extremely time consuming, and hardly truly worth the time, even with limpet drones and all the stuff.

The game screams "Macro me" There is such a laod of commands not having shortcuts that force you to click annyoing sequences in the ships menus. Damn this is the freaking future and I feel like having to do more manual tasks than on my current smartphone.

The game is still a load of fun, but many things seem to still require balance. And some stuff needs optimisation.

Edited by Lily from animove, 21 September 2015 - 12:59 AM.

[Alreech]

Lily from animove, on 21 September 2015 - 12:55 AM, said:

For some reason smuggling stuff is way too easy and way to rewarding over any other tasks, unless you have a ship big enough in cargo to make one trip trading faster. Even more funny, you enter that system to deliver 5t of slaves and they caught you and net you some bounty which is like 1/6th of the missions worth. LOL So even in that case you simply end the mission pay your fee, and everything is fine.

Thank the whiners for that.

Until 1.1 or 1.2 even the location of the black markets wasn't shown on system overview, so you have to fly to each station to check the station menu for it.

Quote

While on the other side I exited one of the stations and a NPC ship decided to appear right past that exit. bumped into it, got a 260 fee for "rude flying" and got immediately shot down by space police. TOTALLY reasonable.

To many whiners complaint about getting rammed by players, and this is the fix.

Quote

And then the entire Frameshift drive thingy, WOW you always when flying to a system get "hyperspaced" superclose to the sun. What genious kind of technology is that? lets just hope out tehc is 100% proof because even with a 0,001% ratio of error, we have a lot vaporizing spaceships.

Gameplay reasons. Placing the jumppoint near the sun:

• reduces the flight times for fuel scooping
  
• puts you always in the same distance to the stations
  
• with the sun in the back all planets are full visible during approach

Elite II Frontier and Frontier First Encounters used a random generated jump point in a system, didn't work well because the flight time to the planet was every time different.

Quote

The game screams "Macro me" There is such a load of commands not having shortcuts that force you to click annyoing sequences in the ships menus. Damn this is the freaking future and I feel like having to do more manual tasks than on my current smartphone.

What important commandos have no shortcuts ?

I'm using a X52pro and have functions like silent running, landing gear, ship lights and cargo scoop on buttons, but most of the times I activate that functions with the menu

[Kyone Akashi]

Lily from animove, on 21 September 2015 - 12:55 AM, said:

wow nice, well I never played any Elite game except the original. hmm, interesting, but those would then need some cargo hauling smaller ships, the stations don't even have docking stations big enough

Yep, "back in the days" (the old games) there were supercheap interplanetary (but not interstellar = not jump capable) ships like this shuttle or this cargo lifter. You could even buy them as a player for like 5.000 credits or so, but they were pretty useless for anything other than playing taxi driver to ferry small loads from a planetary spaceport to an orbiting station and back.

So, fairly useless. But it was a nice detail that you could do it either way. I'm still hoping they reappear in ED as well, if only for the sake of completion.

Lily from animove, on 21 September 2015 - 12:55 AM, said:

Why would the market have a demand for goods if it wouldn't sell? that must be the galaxy's worst merchants housing at this place.

In most places in ED, humanity is a throw-away society. Just like we are on modern day Earth.

Right now, around 1.3 billion tons of food are wasted each year, about a third of the overall production, just so that you can have five different brands of milk or ten different yoghurts of the same flavor in the supermarket available at all times. Meanwhile, there are still countries where entire families starve to death because they cannot afford the most basic sustenance. Right now, we are at the opposite extreme to the Cold War-era planned economy in Socialist countries where there was little to no waste, but you wouldn't have all products available to you all the time.

It's the same in Elite. If they are the galaxy's worst merchants, then so are the corporations of today. But they are what mankind has made them. It's a dark and gritty galaxy, reflecting humanity as it is today, and how it might look like in a thousand years if we don't change our ways.

Quite similar to Battletech, if you think about it. Personally, I like it.

Alreech, on 21 September 2015 - 04:09 AM, said:

To many whiners complaint about getting rammed by players, and this is the fix.

The ramming fee makes sense, though. It's easily avoidable by slowing down to safe speeds when approaching the station (there's even a "Speeding" indicator on the interface!), and it's fairly realistic that the cops wouldn't like to see you crashing through the port at insane velocity all the time, especially when you're causing collateral damage.

I also wouldn't dismiss legit complaints about trolls using their ships to kill other players with impunity as "whining". It's just as if the cops wouldn't care that they are discharging their weapons.
It was an easily exploitable hole in the gameplay rules/mechanics, and I consider it fixed now.

Agreed about the rest, though. And I'm actually flying with mouse+KB right now and still don't have a problem controlling all ship's functions. I think it's just experience, i.e. getting used to quickly flip through the (rather intuitive) menu. After a month or so of active playing, anyone can activate any function they wish with a quick gesture of their fingers.

Edited by Kyone Akashi, 21 September 2015 - 05:57 AM.

[Lily from animove]

Kyone Akashi, on 21 September 2015 - 05:49 AM, said:

Agreed about the rest, though. And I'm actually flying with mouse+KB right now and still don't have a problem controlling all ship's functions. I think it's just experience, i.e. getting used to quickly flip through the (rather intuitive) menu. After a month or so of active playing, anyone can activate any function they wish with a quick gesture of their fingers.

Not a matter of "getting used to" ,just a matter of UI - too damn many clicks, and no mouse availabile like in X.

Scrolling through the systems list is kinda nonsense takes time, same for the contract list. 1 e down down down down down down space. Totally unecessary form a poin of UI controls.

But going to the Planetarysystem itself is not a solution as well, because it always loads from the server. Having a mouse with scrollfucntion here would make things way less keysmashing.

I still have not found an "untarget" function. You either hit t when not having something in the crosshair, or you have to go to the system list target something and untarget it. But unnecessary somehow. Same for docking. A docking request should be a default command. X had some similar too annoying UI steps to go through for many other "usual" tasks.

Alreech, on 21 September 2015 - 04:09 AM, said:

Thank the whiners for that.


Until 1.1 or 1.2 even the location of the black markets wasn't shown on system overview, so you have to fly to each station to check the station menu for it.

Informations, well thats a thing, tbh, once you discovered a blackmarket it always should be shown, I mena you have the dman future and your ship would be worthless if it can not even memorise such things. it would just make people store this in excelsor on note sheets which is what a modern game in space should have by default.

Alreech, on 21 September 2015 - 04:09 AM, said:

To many whiners complaint about getting rammed by players, and this is the fix.

ok, I do understand that, becaue otherwise, since its a game and not reallife you can expects loads of trolls doing nonsense. But I guess they still cna spam FSD interrupts to annoy poeple

But minor fees up to maybe 2k should not lead to you getting shot by authorities, they should then simply demand you to pay the fee which you would have to pay.

Alreech, on 21 September 2015 - 04:09 AM, said:

Gameplay reasons. Placing the jumppoint near the sun:

reduces the flight times for fuel scooping
puts you always in the same distance to the stations
with the sun in the back all planets are full visible during approach

Elite II Frontier and Frontier First Encounters used a random generated jump point in a system, didn't work well because the flight time to the planet was every time different.

how is that always the same distance to stations? its still annoying, some stations are suddenly 200.000Ls away and you need like 10minutes to get there. just becasue you can not jump like 200Ls next to them. A real system with coordinates to set jumps to would be a lot more interesting. Time is money, and by this simply every station would have some kind of jump beacon people would locking on. It's not liek your computer wouldn't be bale to process where a station is. Allowing such a thing as advanced piloting option would be very nice. Anyone palyed Evochron mercenaries? I would love something like this. because the current system is nonsense and you need to remember how some systems have "useless 10 minute stations".

Especially when the game makes you jump in a way that an object suddenly is behid another not allowing you to FSD there. Theny you have to seek out another object helping you to enter FSD first before able to reset to the original one. tbh, a player should be allowed to always enter and stop the FSD when he wants. Currently the entering and exiting FSD is too much bound to havign a target.


There still a lot balance to be doen in E:D


prices are still off, no matter if the deal is good or not so good, but some goods have a span of 200-600 in profit, shile some "great" prices for some goods never exceed a profit of like 100, simply because the base value of a product is so low. and in a game with such limited cargo space these products just have the placeholder of "flair" unless they are not part of a import deal having a reasonable price.

I would love to see some real economy in the game, prices vary a lot more, and stations productivities, population and wealth depends a lot more on how their demands were furfilled and their products were sold.

but currently, it makes no sense when there is a station A offering 200 profit per unit and station B 300 when station B is just 5 minutes more travel it's already inefficient in terms of money/timeratio.

and let me not start about mining -.-

Well I think I should make an account at their forum and make some feedback there.

[Alreech]

Kyone Akashi, on 21 September 2015 - 05:49 AM, said:

Yep, "back in the days" (the old games) there were supercheap interplanetary (but not interstellar = not jump capable) ships like this shuttle or this cargo lifter. You could even buy them as a player for like 5.000 credits or so, but they were pretty useless for anything other than playing taxi driver to ferry small loads from a planetary spaceport to an orbiting station and back.

So, fairly useless. But it was a nice detail that you could do it either way. I'm still hoping they reappear in ED as well, if only for the sake of completion.

Wait for Horizons and the return of the surface space ports like Copernicus on the Moon.

Quote

In most places in ED, humanity is a throw-away society. Just like we are on modern day Earth.

ED is a game, and it's economy isn't a hard core simulation.
In a hard core simulation of a galactic economy most transaction would be between big cooperations with long term contracts. Getting a mission that forces you to fly between the next 10 years between systems a & b hauling biowaste and grain for cooperation x & y would be a big hit for each captain of a freighter, but an awful game.

Quote

Right now, around 1.3 billion tons of food are wasted each year, about a third of the overall production, just so that you can have five different brands of milk or ten different yoghurts of the same flavor in the supermarket available at all times. Meanwhile, there are still countries where entire families starve to death because they cannot afford the most basic sustenance. Right now, we are at the opposite extreme to the Cold War-era planned economy in Socialist countries where there was little to no waste, but you wouldn't have all products available to you all the time.

Or no products at any time, at least not for you...
And after all the planned economy in Socialist countries have produced a lot of waste due to elderly machinery and technology.

And in most of the countries where families starve to death production and distribution of food isn't controlled by cooperations... in fact, some of them are still planned economy or traditional economy with organic farming (no fertilizer, no pesticides, no machinery, no money to buy seeds, and the work is done by the whole family including children).

Quote

It's the same in Elite. If they are the galaxy's worst merchants, then so are the corporations of today. But they are what mankind has made them. It's a dark and gritty galaxy, reflecting humanity as it is today, and how it might look like in a thousand years if we don't change our ways.

Cooperations are pretty effective in producing and distributing goods, that's the reason even Cuba is going to allow them.

[t Khrist]

Alreech, on 21 September 2015 - 06:57 AM, said:

... cooperations... in fact, some of them are still planned economy or traditional economy with organic farming (no fertilizer, no pesticides, no machinery, no money to buy seeds, and the work is done by the whole family including children).


Cooperations are pretty effective in producing and distributing goods, that's the reason even Cuba is going to allow them.

Co-operations or corporations?

Lily from animove, on 21 September 2015 - 06:29 AM, said:

how is that always the same distance to stations?

He means when you jump into the same system, the stations will always be the same distance from you.

Lily from animove, on 21 September 2015 - 06:29 AM, said:

its still annoying, some stations are suddenly 200.000Ls away and you need like 10minutes to get there. just becasue you can not jump like 200Ls next to them. A real system with coordinates to set jumps to would be a lot more interesting. Time is money, and by this simply every station would have some kind of jump beacon people would locking on. It's not liek your computer wouldn't be bale to process where a station is. Allowing such a thing as advanced piloting option would be very nice. Anyone palyed Evochron mercenaries? I would love something like this. because the current system is nonsense and you need to remember how some systems have "useless 10 minute stations".

I think it has something to do with the lore. Canonically, the FSD's were designed to lock onto the main celestial body in a system. I imagine this was due to technical limitations or something, you'd have to look it up.

Also the system map tells you how far each station is from the jump point when you click on them. So there's that.

Not disagreeing with you, it is frustrating. Just informing .

Lily from animove, on 21 September 2015 - 06:29 AM, said:

Especially when the game makes you jump in a way that an object suddenly is behid another not allowing you to FSD there. Theny you have to seek out another object helping you to enter FSD first before able to reset to the original one. tbh, a player should be allowed to always enter and stop the FSD when he wants. Currently the entering and exiting FSD is too much bound to havign a target.

If you don't have any target selected you can enter Supercruise pretty much anytime. You can also drop out of Supercruise anytime, though with structural consequences.

Just got my permit to Alioth, made about 1.2 million off of missions in order to get it. Puts me at around two mil., and I need 5.3 with the discount to snag me up an ASP. So excited.. need to grind for credits..

Also CQC is great. Thrilling even, can't wait for launch to play it for realsies .

Edited by t Khrist, 21 September 2015 - 01:29 PM.

[Kyone Akashi]

Lily from animove, on 21 September 2015 - 06:29 AM, said:

But minor fees up to maybe 2k should not lead to you getting shot by authorities, they should then simply demand you to pay the fee which you would have to pay.

And usually they don't. Did whatever you were ramming explode, by any chance?

• Shields only collision above speed limit is a fine
  
• Hull damage only above speed limit is a larger fine
  
• Ship destruction within short window after collision above speed limit is a bounty
  -- Patch 1.3 change log

And bounty = KoS for station security.

Alreech, on 21 September 2015 - 06:57 AM, said:

Wait for Horizons and the return of the surface space ports like Copernicus on the Moon.

I can't wait to take out the Scarab, but I'd certainly like to see the return of shuttles and lifters for this kind of short range travel as well.

Alreech, on 21 September 2015 - 06:57 AM, said:

ED is a game, and it's economy isn't a hard core simulation.
In a hard core simulation of a galactic economy most transaction would be between big cooperations with long term contracts. Getting a mission that forces you to fly between the next 10 years between systems a & b hauling biowaste and grain for cooperation x & y would be a big hit for each captain of a freighter, but an awful game.

Yes, but the criticism was that markets full of goods that aren't getting sold was unrealistic, which simply isn't true when that's exactly how our markets are working right now.

I'm not 100% convinced this was part of the developers' intention, but I like it when gameplay and realism can work hand in hand.

Alreech, on 21 September 2015 - 06:57 AM, said:

Or no products at any time, at least not for you...
And after all the planned economy in Socialist countries have produced a lot of waste due to elderly machinery and technology.

And in most of the countries where families starve to death production and distribution of food isn't controlled by cooperations... in fact, some of them are still planned economy or traditional economy with organic farming (no fertilizer, no pesticides, no machinery, no money to buy seeds, and the work is done by the whole family including children).

Cooperations are pretty effective in producing and distributing goods, that's the reason even Cuba is going to allow them.

In that case you're comparing third world countries to first world nations, though. You can't blame economic principles when the cause is lack of technology. After all, there was plenty of starvation in medieval Europe as well, in spite of the emergence of private companies. Meanwhile, having grown up in the GDR, I never had to go hungry -- we just rarely if ever got any bananas. Whoop-de-do.

You misunderstood the argument, though. If you check the link I posted earlier, you will notice how the EU study shows that in first world nations, the waste of food happens on a consumer level. The corporations are quite effective at producing and delivering the goods to the vendor, it's just that the vendor has to throw away a third of what they buy because it doesn't get sold. Yet the vendors - who, in the age of supermarkets, are corporations as well - obviously still keep buying too much food, and they still make a profit.

As a society, it seems we simply prefer massive waste of foodstuffs to the psychological shock of maybe having to deal with not being able to buy our favourite meal from time to time.

And the same reasoning can be applied to many worlds in ED.

t Khrist, on 21 September 2015 - 01:27 PM, said:

I think it has something to do with the lore. Canonically, the FSD's were designed to lock onto the main celestial body in a system. I imagine this was due to technical limitations or something, you'd have to look it up.

It's also a matter of gameplay. If every ship could just hyperjump within spitting range of the station, you'd never be able to catch anyone in deep space. There would be no piracy, and no bounty hunting.

There needs to be a suitable timeframe where ships are "vulnerable" by travelling outside of immediate security response, and that's the time they take when flying from a system's star to their final destination.

It sucks for systems that have more than one sun, though, as those travel times can get fairly ludicrous. But if I remember correctly, the team wants to allow "micro jumps" between stars within the same system as a solution.

[Lily from animove]

t Khrist, on 21 September 2015 - 01:27 PM, said:

If you don't have any target selected you can enter Supercruise pretty much anytime. You can also drop out of Supercruise anytime, though with structural consequences.

Thats the issue, you have to emergency exit , which makes hardly any sense. So I was going to mine at a inner ring and it had not place to target, which then means you do not know when to regulary exit. SO you have to emergency exit, due to the lack of "normal exiting"

Thats a weird concept for future technology.

Kyone Akashi, on 21 September 2015 - 03:43 PM, said:

And usually they don't. Did whatever you were ramming explode, by any chance?

• Shields only collision above speed limit is a fine
  
• Hull damage only above speed limit is a larger fine
  
• Ship destruction within short window after collision above speed limit is a bounty
  
  -- Patch 1.3 change log

And bounty = KoS for station security.

no it was a python, it did not explode. I only got the 260 fee for rude piloting.

Quote

I can't wait to take out the Scarab, but I'd certainly like to see the return of shuttles and lifters for this kind of short range travel as well.

Yes, but the criticism was that markets full of goods that aren't getting sold was unrealistic, which simply isn't true when that's exactly how our markets are working right now.

I'm not 100% convinced this was part of the developers' intention, but I like it when gameplay and realism can work hand in hand.

In that case you're comparing third world countries to first world nations, though. You can't blame economic principles when the cause is lack of technology. After all, there was plenty of starvation in medieval Europe as well, in spite of the emergence of private companies. Meanwhile, having grown up in the GDR, I never had to go hungry -- we just rarely if ever got any bananas. Whoop-de-do.

You misunderstood the argument, though. If you check the link I posted earlier, you will notice how the EU study shows that in first world nations, the waste of food happens on a consumer level. The corporations are quite effective at producing and delivering the goods to the vendor, it's just that the vendor has to throw away a third of what they buy because it doesn't get sold. Yet the vendors - who, in the age of supermarkets, are corporations as well - obviously still keep buying too much food, and they still make a profit.

As a society, it seems we simply prefer massive waste of foodstuffs to the psychological shock of maybe having to deal with not being able to buy our favourite meal from time to time.

yes a very much society issue. Also a but "cost driven" they buy the cheaper product, but cheaptre ris often mass production. And then they throw more away, which in the end probably means the same profit due to individual price being lower but the non sold "waste" being higher.

The issue I have with those "high tech" space stations is simply when they are THAT poor to not being able to afford food, how would they still operate or have people living there. They would be empty metal hulls floating in space. And before this happens food prices would porbably be ridculously high, whcih they never really seem to be. Unless you get an import mission. But even then its only a few tons of food, mostly not worth the travel.

Also EVERYONE wanted bananas asthey had none, and now not even many do eat them regulary.

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And the same reasoning can be applied to many worlds in ED.

It's also a matter of gameplay. If every ship could just hyperjump within spitting range of the station, you'd never be able to catch anyone in deep space. There would be no piracy, and no bounty hunting.

There needs to be a suitable timeframe where ships are "vulnerable" by travelling outside of immediate security response, and that's the time they take when flying from a system's star to their final destination.

It sucks for systems that have more than one sun, though, as those travel times can get fairly ludicrous. But if I remember correctly, the team wants to allow "micro jumps" between stars within the same system as a solution.

pirating and such would still happen, because people mine ressources at specific locations. Also if you ever played evochron mercenary, you can build stations there and you can warp to coordinates, depending on your engine you need serveral jumps. All this is also destructible, or you simply interrupt people trying to get to these stations.
Ther eis in ED usually not even much people around. And they could have implemented FSD interruption for hyperspace. piracy and bountyhunting then would still take palce, just in a different way. E:D could have a general rule that hyperspacing can be everywhere, but only until 500Ls to any station or planet. And form there its Supercruise to the stations.
That would keep free jumping but still room for Pirating and Bounty. But nothing "kills" a station more than being 200.000Ls away from the sun because prices there are not juicy enough in their delta to justify the travel time. Such stations would cease to exist.

I do like how elite shows you the sizes and distances of space in the systems due to the way how supercruise works, But the navigation itself is a very suboptimal non intelligent system.

[Alreech]

Kyone Akashi, on 21 September 2015 - 03:43 PM, said:

In that case you're comparing third world countries to first world nations, though. You can't blame economic principles when the cause is lack of technology. After all, there was plenty of starvation in medieval Europe as well, in spite of the emergence of private companies. Meanwhile, having grown up in the GDR, I never had to go hungry -- we just rarely if ever got any bananas. Whoop-de-do.

You misunderstood the argument, though. If you check the link I posted earlier, you will notice how the EU study shows that in first world nations, the waste of food happens on a consumer level. The corporations are quite effective at producing and delivering the goods to the vendor, it's just that the vendor has to throw away a third of what they buy because it doesn't get sold. Yet the vendors - who, in the age of supermarkets, are corporations as well - obviously still keep buying too much food, and they still make a profit.

As a society, it seems we simply prefer massive waste of foodstuffs to the psychological shock of maybe having to deal with not being able to buy our favourite meal from time to time.

And the same reasoning can be applied to many worlds in ED.

Right, the lack of food in lesser developed countries can't be blamed to cooperations. And the solution to the EU waste of food is simple.
Less stricter rules to selling of food. Even with mold on the surface fruits and bread are still edible. Sell them to a lower price to the poor. This may increase the risk of food poisoning (nowadays very uncommon in most developed countries) but hey, better than throwing food away, right ? .
But very few food is thrown away by the vendor. If it's near the end of the shelf life, it will be sold for a reduced price or donated to charity. Or is taken away by a company that uses them to generate methane (because using it for feeding pigs is forbidden by EU-Law).

Most food is thrown away by the consumer because of buying to much stuff. A simple solution would be a hefty fine for throwing away edible food. Of course some kind of food police would be needed that checks the garbage bins for illegal food dumping, but I'm sure that many neighbors would like to do such a duty

But lack of food can be also the result of price controls. Maybe the food prices in Elite Dangerous are capped by the controlling faction ?
So even with a serve crisis of food, prices won't go up that much.
http://www.theguardi...nd-toilet-paper