303 replies to this topic

[BLOOD WOLF]

I advise players to get better and to play their roles well. You know what my teamates always say when we lose matches, we talk about what we could have done better(clan wolf) at least for when im on. To improve yourself is the key. Also try your best to help instruct other players of how they could be better in the field

[Sandpit]

Noesis, on 02 January 2014 - 01:30 PM, said:

The Comstar channels are still running for NA and EU (These used to be the closed beta TS3 servers as I recall)

Then there is the NGNG site, other units and lone wolf groups that encourage casual dropping with others in some of their VOIP servers.

So even if you don't want to be a part of an organised unit (though there are potential benefits here) there are opportunities to drop in more organised groups.

Though I don't think MWO forums heavily advertise the use of these resources other than a reference in new player help:

Community VOIP resources

Because you can only post it trying to help people and get tarred and feathered by the evil premade haters for ruining this game so many times before you get tired of being vilified honestly

[Varent]

Sandpit, on 02 January 2014 - 01:39 PM, said:

Because you can only post it trying to help people and get tarred and feathered by the evil premade haters for ruining this game so many times before you get tired of being vilified honestly

That whole mindset of villifying people that group up and communicate perplexes me.... I dont think I could truly contemplate playing a game like this alone... I mean I pug every once in awhile... but.. ya....

[DaZur]

BLOOD WOLF, on 02 January 2014 - 01:36 PM, said:

I advise players to get better and to play their roles well. You know what my teamates always say when we lose matches, we talk about what we could have done better(clan wolf) at least for when im on. To improve yourself is the key. Also try your best to help instruct other players of how they could be better in the field

Clearly you're not grasping the proper procedures for handling a harsh loss...

Step 1.) Complain vehemently in chat about how useless your team is. Be sure to isolate someone in particular and berate them until they DC.

Step 2.) Accuse the other team of being a a pre-made out to rolfstomp even if you have no proof to support this premise.

Step 3.) Hit the forum hard... make sure you post the most damning example of how screwed the MM is (make sure to not accidentally post the 9 completely viable drops otherwise your efforts are drastically diminished).

*** You get bonus points if your team / Clan mates show up in numbers to support your efforts.



It'd be funny if it wasn't so flipping close to the truth...

Edited by DaZur, 02 January 2014 - 01:50 PM.

[BLOOD WOLF]

DaZur, on 02 January 2014 - 01:49 PM, said:

Clearly you're not grasping the proper procedures for handling a harsh loss...

Step 1.) Complain vehemently in chat about how useless your team is. Be sure to isolate someone in particular and berate them until they DC.

Step 2.) Accuse the other team of being a a pre-made out to rolfstomp even if you have no proof to support this premise.

Step 3.) Hit the forum hard... make sure you post the most damning example of how screwed the MM is (make sure to not accidentally post the 9 completely viable drops otherwise your efforts are drastically diminished).

*** You get bonus points if your team / Clan mates show up in numbers to support your efforts.



It'd be funny if it wasn't so flipping close to the truth...

you get a +100 thumbs up

[Varent]

DaZur, on 02 January 2014 - 01:49 PM, said:

Clearly you're not grasping the proper procedures for handling a harsh loss...

Step 1.) Complain vehemently in chat about how useless your team is. Be sure to isolate someone in particular and berate them until they DC.

Step 2.) Accuse the other team of being a a pre-made out to rolfstomp even if you have no proof to support this premise.

Step 3.) Hit the forum hard... make sure you post the most damning example of how screwed the MM is (make sure to not accidentally post the 9 completely viable drops otherwise your efforts are drastically diminished).

*** You get bonus points if your team / Clan mates show up in numbers to support your efforts.



It'd be funny if it wasn't so flipping close to the truth...

This....

I owe you a cookie.

[PictishWolf]

This discussion brings to mind something I've been thinking about since I started playing a year or so ago. Fortunately or unfortunately, as the case may be, I have a family, job, and school responsibilities that preclude me from being able to play as much as I need to to get as good as I can possibly be at this game. As it is, I have managed to attain an acceptable competency at the game, IMHO.

Despite its flaws, I love the game. The immersiveness gets my heart pounding sometimes. It is a hell of a lot of fun when things go well. As long as those epic games happen occasionally enough, I will probably continue playing as long as it exists.

The problem is, there are people who, for whatever reason, can play for many hours every day. Talent aside, they, just through sheer experience, will almost always be better at the game than someone like me. It seems impossible, IMHO, to balance those "elite" players against the rest of us. One of them can frequently take out 4 or more of us, especially new players. If that happens near the beginning of the match, our whole team is almost certainly doomed.

I will likely never be good enough to really compete against these players so, for me, I'm not sure the introduction of CW will make much of an improvement toward incentive to keep playing. Teams of expert players will so completely dominate those of us that are, by necessity, more casual players that it is basically a foregone conclusion who will succeed in CW.

If my reasoning is sound, what reason is there for casual players, especially PUGs, to continue playing this game? Are there enough "elite" players still around at all times to allow them to compete against each other without padding their numbers with players who are significantly less able?

[Sandpit]

DaZur, on 02 January 2014 - 01:49 PM, said:

Clearly you're not grasping the proper procedures for handling a harsh loss...

Step 1.) Complain vehemently in chat about how useless your team is. Be sure to isolate someone in particular and berate them until they DC.

Step 2.) Accuse the other team of being a a pre-made out to rolfstomp even if you have no proof to support this premise.

Step 3.) Hit the forum hard... make sure you post the most damning example of how screwed the MM is (make sure to not accidentally post the 9 completely viable drops otherwise your efforts are drastically diminished).

*** You get bonus points if your team / Clan mates show up in numbers to support your efforts.



It'd be funny if it wasn't so flipping close to the truth...

You forgot the mandatory spouting of "factual" statistics and complex mathematical equations complete with charts and graphs to support your factual opinion, hijacking multiple threads for your agenda, and finally posting multiple threads that shows the majority of the community agrees with you and it's a big deal

This of course only happens after you post a poll on the subject that shows the exact opposite of everything above

PictishWolf, on 02 January 2014 - 02:36 PM, said:

This discussion brings to mind something I've been thinking about since I started playing a year or so ago. Fortunately or unfortunately, as the case may be, I have a family, job, and school responsibilities that preclude me from being able to play as much as I need to to get as good as I can possibly be at this game. As it is, I have managed to attain an acceptable competency at the game, IMHO.

Despite its flaws, I love the game. The immersiveness gets my heart pounding sometimes. It is a hell of a lot of fun when things go well. As long as those epic games happen occasionally enough, I will probably continue playing as long as it exists.

The problem is, there are people who, for whatever reason, can play for many hours every day. Talent aside, they, just through sheer experience, will almost always be better at the game than someone like me. It seems impossible, IMHO, to balance those "elite" players against the rest of us. One of them can frequently take out 4 or more of us, especially new players. If that happens near the beginning of the match, our whole team is almost certainly doomed.

I will likely never be good enough to really compete against these players so, for me, I'm not sure the introduction of CW will make much of an improvement toward incentive to keep playing. Teams of expert players will so completely dominate those of us that are, by necessity, more casual players that it is basically a foregone conclusion who will succeed in CW.

If my reasoning is sound, what reason is there for casual players, especially PUGs, to continue playing this game? Are there enough "elite" players still around at all times to allow them to compete against each other without padding their numbers with players who are significantly less able?

Ok so all sarcasm and snark aside what would be your solution?

[BLOOD WOLF]

PictishWolf, on 02 January 2014 - 02:36 PM, said:

This discussion brings to mind something I've been thinking about since I started playing a year or so ago. Fortunately or unfortunately, as the case may be, I have a family, job, and school responsibilities that preclude me from being able to play as much as I need to to get as good as I can possibly be at this game. As it is, I have managed to attain an acceptable competency at the game, IMHO.

Despite its flaws, I love the game. The immersiveness gets my heart pounding sometimes. It is a hell of a lot of fun when things go well. As long as those epic games happen occasionally enough, I will probably continue playing as long as it exists.

The problem is, there are people who, for whatever reason, can play for many hours every day. Talent aside, they, just through sheer experience, will almost always be better at the game than someone like me. It seems impossible, IMHO, to balance those "elite" players against the rest of us. One of them can frequently take out 4 or more of us, especially new players. If that happens near the beginning of the match, our whole team is almost certainly doomed.

I will likely never be good enough to really compete against these players so, for me, I'm not sure the introduction of CW will make much of an improvement toward incentive to keep playing. Teams of expert players will so completely dominate those of us that are, by necessity, more casual players that it is basically a foregone conclusion who will succeed in CW.

If my reasoning is sound, what reason is there for casual players, especially PUGs, to continue playing this game? Are there enough "elite" players still around at all times to allow them to compete against each other without padding their numbers with players who are significantly less able?

No matter what your level, your team should support you, players should help you. You dont need to be on 24/7, i am on reg but that doesnt mean im 100x better than you. Also i dont know what a pro player is in MWO, i thought by joining a clan i would play with people that win all the time(expecially in public matches) but that wasnt the case. Just play and dont worry about winningm i mean sure thats the goal but fun is the number 1 priority. Don't be a try hard that 50% of these forum monsters

[Nick Makiaveli]

babadude71, on 02 January 2014 - 06:09 AM, said:

This is all to common,
How is this helping new players want to keep playing?

<stuff>

First off, how exactly is one team losing to another PGI's fault? Yes there are bugs etc, but basically it looks like you are just rehashing all the same old arguments that they need more bug fixes, CW, tutorials etc.

Challenge, difficulty, winning despite all odds and all that. Is that a lost thing? No one cares about anything but winning? When the going gets tough, modern gamers ragequit and move on to another game? I hear Candy Crush is still looking for new players.....

Rippthrough, on 02 January 2014 - 06:19 AM, said:

I need your sig Fup. The arse-kissers broke mine.

You should probably edit your current one, as it definitely violates the CoC by bypassing the filter and possibly by referring to moderation in public. For bonus points, you could insult me for mentioning this!!

[DaZur]

PictishWolf, on 02 January 2014 - 02:36 PM, said:

If my reasoning is sound, what reason is there for casual players, especially PUGs, to continue playing this game? Are there enough "elite" players still around at all times to allow them to compete against each other without padding their numbers with players who are significantly less able?

In short... "Self imposed challenge".

I've stated elsewhere, one does not have to play 1000 hours a week to be a student of the game. I PUG almost exclusively and one thing I see an awful lot of it players playing "harder" but necessarily "smarter".

Admittedly the profile is shallow at the moment sans CW, but there is strategy to be had and tactics to apply deeper than poptarting and doing the circle-of-death...

Obviously playing with a team is a near instant fix as this 10-folds the opportunity to apply strategy and tactics, but there are several dozen things a solo player can do to break the obvious inequities.

[Jacmac]

babadude71, on 02 January 2014 - 06:09 AM, said:

From everything that i have read on these forums and from other sources the only thing that is keeping this game alive is the dedication of the die hard fans of Mech Warrior, the books the previous games etc, and i fear that it is going to take these people to speak up and express their disappointment and to stop spending money until the core aspects of this game are corrected to a standard that is acceptable for the amount of money they are charging,

I'm not sure where you read that, but the die hard fans are already gone. Also, most of the competitive players left several months ago. Whats left are the new players, players holding on to some scrap of hope, and players that think everything is just fine the way it is. The competitive players spoke up months ago and there was even a petition: https://docs.google....94cFBDOVE#gid=0

Petition or not, it's just a mess.

[Varent]

PictishWolf, on 02 January 2014 - 02:36 PM, said:

This discussion brings to mind something I've been thinking about since I started playing a year or so ago. Fortunately or unfortunately, as the case may be, I have a family, job, and school responsibilities that preclude me from being able to play as much as I need to to get as good as I can possibly be at this game. As it is, I have managed to attain an acceptable competency at the game, IMHO.

Despite its flaws, I love the game. The immersiveness gets my heart pounding sometimes. It is a hell of a lot of fun when things go well. As long as those epic games happen occasionally enough, I will probably continue playing as long as it exists.

The problem is, there are people who, for whatever reason, can play for many hours every day. Talent aside, they, just through sheer experience, will almost always be better at the game than someone like me. It seems impossible, IMHO, to balance those "elite" players against the rest of us. One of them can frequently take out 4 or more of us, especially new players. If that happens near the beginning of the match, our whole team is almost certainly doomed.

I will likely never be good enough to really compete against these players so, for me, I'm not sure the introduction of CW will make much of an improvement toward incentive to keep playing. Teams of expert players will so completely dominate those of us that are, by necessity, more casual players that it is basically a foregone conclusion who will succeed in CW.

If my reasoning is sound, what reason is there for casual players, especially PUGs, to continue playing this game? Are there enough "elite" players still around at all times to allow them to compete against each other without padding their numbers with players who are significantly less able?

'
Ignoring abit of the snark. I see what you mean.... However... and sadly there is no real way to alter this in an online community. In every game thats online there will always be elite players that are good and will dominate. Once community warefare hits it will only become more so prevalent. Which I certainly hope most people realized and signed up knowing this.... I for one play to strive to be as good as I can be when that time comes... but that said you can always consider trying to do supportive rolls for your team when that time comes? Missle boating... laser boating... scouting.. etc.... You may not be amazing but you still can be effective and help out your respective group.

[BLOOD WOLF]

A whole lot of you are respectable players who are fun and understanding. With that being said i have to say the opposite and yea you get the serious players and that's also understandable. its a game thats open to everybody, so dont ever feel like your not welcome because of these barkers

[DaZur]

Sandpit, on 02 January 2014 - 02:39 PM, said:

You forgot the mandatory spouting of "factual" statistics and complex mathematical equations complete with charts and graphs to support your factual opinion, hijacking multiple threads for your agenda, and finally posting multiple threads that shows the majority of the community agrees with you and it's a big deal

Hey... I like a good chart and graph!

[BLOOD WOLF]

DaZur, on 02 January 2014 - 02:45 PM, said:

In short... "Self imposed challenge".

I've stated elsewhere, one does not have to play 1000 hours a week to be a student of the game. I PUG almost exclusively and one thing I see an awful lot of it players playing "harder" but necessarily "smarter".

Admittedly the profile is shallow at the moment sans CW, but there is strategy to be had and tactics to apply deeper than poptarting and doing the circle-of-death...

Obviously playing with a team is a near instant fix as this 10-folds the opportunity to apply strategy and tactics, but there are several dozen things a solo player can do to break the obvious inequities.

WHO sent you, My word, there is a MWO god out there

[PictishWolf]

Sandpit, on 02 January 2014 - 02:39 PM, said:

Ok so all sarcasm and snark aside what would be your solution?

Good question. I really don't know. This is my first experience playing an online game for more than a few hours. Despite having tried dozens of them, I haven't ever found another one that wasn't either too twitchy to look real or filled with douchy foul-mouthed trolls (or both). This is the best experience I've had to date so I'm still here after a year.

[Damia Savon]

BLOOD WOLF, on 02 January 2014 - 10:17 AM, said:

You guys do realize that as a community, we can help new players coming in. Pre-mades or solo doesn't make a differences. If every player has battlefield awareness and could recognize the situation, players would do alot better. there needs to be a better training program, also new players should have to go through a good tutorial before starting. When i was new to this game i did well. Better than i though but i was experienced in warrior and that cant be said for everybody. Stop this {Scrap} about pre-mades and noob players, everybody has the potential to do their part on the battlefield. Also when i joined clan wolf, grouping up into 12 man or 4 man lances into pubs would be a K.O but as far as i knew i didn't win more or less. Even if **** in a public room as long as players know what their doing, can analyze a situation then they are the prize on the field.

I decided not to read and reread the same stuff over and over again.... so my worthless 2 cbills.

1) Stomps are going to happen no matter what. I don't care if it is 12 Pugs v 12 Pugs or 12 premade teams v another 12 man team.

2) Communication definitely help in any situation. It is not the be all and end all though. Basic voice talk with your team would be a help *if people can be civilized and actually talk*. Right now at the start of most matches people can be friendly. I've had people start off insulting their team before the first shot is fired. I've had others start screaming and blaming the team the minute they die, even though it was their own dang fault they ran right into the enemy line. I've had others predict utter doom and gloom and everyone was gonna die in the first 5 second because the team did not do what they said or reach a point soon enough. People can be idiots, jerks, and whatever else you want to come up with in text chat as it is. Exactly why do you think that voice is going to suddenly change this?

Honestly I think team voice chat will just lead to verbal trash talking, insulting and so forth. Some will be adults and try to communicate but probably half the team will just insult the rest and do whatever they want.

3) Even if everyone is mature, communication does not replace skill. You can try to coordinate your fire. You can shout warnings. You can talk dirty if you want but that makes no difference if you keep dropping your LRMs into a wall, run your mechs off a cliff, or consistently miss with your AC. Talking is not substitute for skill. You get skill via playing and not blathering over a comm.

4) Teamwork skils are not the same as individual skills. Someone may be an awesome pilot but get owned by a team. Other times the skill of one pilot is good enough to kill one or two team members and thus make the rest vulnerable. Nothing is going to change that.

5) Information *is* available in game. For example, *IF YOU TARGET* you not only identify the location and other information of the target to your teammates but you also gain valuable information regarding the enemy's health and weaponry. If you pay attention to that, then you know where to properly shoot your target to take it out or decide if you want to take it on at all. If I am running a light, I don't want to go toe to toe with a streak Stalker if I can help it.

You have targeting information. You have triangles showing you where your team is. You have triangles showing the enemy team. IF you pay attention to this information then you can fight effectively. If you ignore it then you can die pathetically.

6) You are not going to please everyone. There are the forums here where a new player can find good info, though the vitriol and negativity probably will drive them away faster than losing. There are good tutorials on the site now and elsewhere. I learned a bit from the person who brought me to this game and I read the posts, watched the tutorials. Most of all I just played. I learned from dying a lot what not to do. I spectated and watched how others acted and reacted. I learned.

It took time. I was pathetic, still am too. My KDR is less then 50% but its steadily getting better. No amount of communication is going to catapult me into MWO godhood.

7) Premades - all premades are not the same. Some are totally serious with mechs all decked out the same, regular practice times, rigid rules and so forth. Some are more casual than that , while others are just friends who like to hang out and drop together. Shockingly not all of them use comms. As I type this between matches, I'm in a group where I am the only one not with a comm. Yet I am still pretty effective because I pay attention to what my lance mates are doing. I can see where they are going. I can follow the red triangles. I back them up. Because they are smart enough to use the basic tools every player can access, I am still an effective member even if I cannot hear a word they say.

Pre-made players blaming PUGS for their death or a loss is just as stupid and bad as lone wolves blaming premades for every loss.

[Tannhauser Gate]

This game isnt "Mechwarrior With Friends" or 'Friends who treat new players with kid gloves." New players, in any competitive combat game, should EXPECT to be beaten over and over until they adapt. There is no better teacher than having your azz beaten in until it ticks you off enough to adapt and fight back.

Bugs and lack of content: Yes that needs to be fixed but the game's state is barely above beta. What do you expect?

Slow development: Yes, its slow and the devs need to own up to that and keep the players better informed. However, 3 years ago the devs said over and over that it would be a work in progress with features added in layers resulting in a game that would have literally have parts of it still in beta all the time. Faster development would have mitigated player frustration on this. However, the development pace is what it is. I would rather have it slow and right, than fast and lame.

Graphics issues and lag: Not the game's fault. Fix your own equipment and connection and just deal with latency because thats the real world.

Griefing and Gooning: Welcome to internet gaming.

Lack of team play and mentoring: There are loads of teams out there looking for new members to train. Whining is just lazy.

The player has to take responsibility for his survival, for making his way to a unit, for succeeding. No one should be whining about that.

[Sandpit]

PictishWolf, on 02 January 2014 - 02:54 PM, said:

Good question. I really don't know. This is my first experience playing an online game for more than a few hours. Despite having tried dozens of them, I haven't ever found another one that wasn't either too twitchy to look real or filled with douchy foul-mouthed trolls (or both). This is the best experience I've had to date so I'm still here after a year.

Well I enjoy and appreciate the honesty

Here's the thing
Even if they did create separate queues like some are wailing and flailing for
Does anyone honestly believe there aren't veteran pug players (who you would incidentally face more often due to smaller queues) that are going to stomp the dog poo out of new players?
Not to mention the fact that the min max kdr type players who care about their stats above all else would just drop pug style to continue getting easier kills regardless continuing stomps as well as the more devious that would just sync drop to continue dropping with veteran buddies against the new players
The whole separate queue idea actually compounds the problem, not solve it